Ultima The Ultima Series Discussion Thread

[KeighnMcDeath]

So my goal with Ultima VII: Revisited is to present the world of Britannia in a 3D engine, using a more modern (but not too modern) presentation. I will also be smoothing off some of the rough corners, like the inventory and combat systems. My goal is to create a new way of playing Ultima VII that will allow the gamer who posted the review above to understand exactly why Ultima VII is so amazing.

“New way” better include TURN BASED COMBAT!

 

[Alex]

Ultima 7 is fine as it is. If someone enjoys that kind of game and gives it a chance, they will quickly get used to the choppy animations and weird viewing angle.

Case in point, I don't know what the PC gaming market was like when it came out; but when I got my first sound card, it came with Ultima 8. My friend who got his at around the same time got Ultima 7 instead. He didn't like it as much exactly because of these graphical issues. I quickly noticed, however, that the game looked much bigger and livelier than the later iteration and happily swapped with him.

 

[KeighnMcDeath]

Ultima 6 - bland red dungeons

Ultima 8 - bland gray dungeons

Maybe they didn’t place enough assets around the dungeons. Some color variations would be nice.

 

[Sukhāvatī]

Latest in the series from Michael Coorlim.

 

[Gilius Thunderhead]

I've been playing around with Exult 1.8 and having a lot of fun. I always preferred playing on Dosbox as I felt Exult was lacking certain essential details (i.e. NPC routines), but they seem to have got it almost perfect this time. Stealing is still weird with how consuming objects(the only thing that counts as stealing, apparently) even in a room with everything closed and no one watching will still send the guards after you, although it's not like the original was coherent in any way in this regard.

Whatever quibbles remain with Exult are far outweighed by the great sound, the stable frame rate, the RTwP combat and keyboard shortcuts. Now, many of you will call RTwP combat shit by definition, but in this case it's a massive improvement over the original, as you now have the option of not dying randomly.

I don't remember if previous versions had it, but the ability to fasten a leather bag to your secondary slot is a real game-changer for a solo character. I always preferred to play U7 solo, as companions are nothing but pack mules, yet by being so they trivialize resource management while greatly increasing time spend fiddling with an extremely cumbersome inventory system. Now, while I love the U7 inventory system (still the best ever IMO), it's hardly the most expedient thing in the world and carrying a full bazaar spread around 5 characters who like to drop shit randomly during fights seems conceived like a sadist's fantasy. Yet, for one or two characters I find it pure bliss.

While I take notes IRL during play(a necessity in many old games), the option of writing my own notes in the game is helping me to get inside the mind of my character. I always take some time in the eveing to sit around the fire and write about what I did that day. I only wish that your notebook existed as an item in-game that you could pick up.

It's rather pathetic that I've been playing this game on and off for 30 years and have never finished it. It's possible that with these new features I might just do it. The way I really enjoy playing is by going all the way with roleplaying and always do things from the POV of my character. That means no beeline to magical equipment or rampant stealing. For example, I found a baby on the sacrificial altar south of Trinsic. Not remembering the quest it's connected to, I rushed to the Royal Nursery to deposit him there. Spark is getting some training from Geoffrey in the safety of LB's castle, as I didn't want to leave an orphan all by himself, etc. The game offers little in the way of C&C, so you have to do what you can. It's still the most immersive game ever made IMO.

 

[KeighnMcDeath]

Well, as they came out they felt pretty immersive and definitely, time-consuming.

Play solo & others are Packmules eh? This makes me think of U7 like a very early type of Dungeon Siege in a way. I still wouldn’t mind seeing a fully TB version of U7-SI. Hell, redo U8 as well to TB. (And drop the weird jumping Crusader mechanics or fix it up some more).

 

[Jaesun]

I always preferred playing on Dosbox as I felt Exult was lacking certain essential details (i.e. NPC routines)

The NPC Schedule system has been working in Exult for a very very long time.

There IS one noticeable thing that Exult does over the original and that is the game breaking Minoc body bug, in that the dead body that is supposed to appear in the scene does not. (The Egg trigger in the doorway was set with the wrong flag to trigger it, but works correctly now in Exult).

Overall, Exult now is just the better way to play this game, they did a very good job porting this game over as well as so much needed basic improvements.

And DO just wander around the world and just take your time. The whole world is just done so well. Running immediately to get the Magic Armor and the Hoe just makes the game too boring, so just take your time and explore. :D

 

[Gilius Thunderhead]

Well, as they came out they felt pretty immersive and definitely, time-consuming.

Play solo & others are Packmules eh? This makes me think of U7 like a very early type of Dungeon Siege in a way. I still wouldn’t mind seeing a fully TB version of U7-SI. Hell, redo U8 as well to TB. (And drop the weird jumping Crusader mechanics or fix it up some more).

It's pointless to have a party when it's unmanageable in combat and the effort required of inventory management is so high vis-a-vis any interesting party-related mechanics. By enabling RTwP, Exult lets you play more defensively, which is good for solo characters, but this doesn't "fix" the combat. There are still no tactics to be seen.

The benefit of having a party in the original is to remove the challenge from combat(since it's so bad/unfair, why bother?) and resource management(with the drawback of additional "work" organizing all the inventories). Unfortunately, this is the reason I never managed to finish the game, as I need to be challenged in some way.

You do miss out on flavor dialogue, though. I make up for it by having a drink with the guys whenever I'm around.

I always preferred playing on Dosbox as I felt Exult was lacking certain essential details (i.e. NPC routines)

The NPC Schedule system has been working in Exult for a very very long time.

There IS one noticeable thing that Exult does over the original and that is the game breaking Minoc body bug, in that the dead body that is supposed to appear in the scene does not. (The Egg trigger in the doorway was set with the wrong flag to trigger it, but works correctly now in Exult).

Overall, Exult now is just the better way to play this game, they did a very good job porting this game over as well as so much needed basic improvements.

And DO just wander around the world and just take your time. The whole world is just done so well. Running immediately to get the Magic Armor and the Hoe just makes the game too boring, so just take your time and explore. :D

Well, come to think of it, it's probably been 10 years since I've played with Exult, maybe more. You're probably right.

One thing where I still prefer the original is the Cheat menu. The Create Item functionality is much more practical now, but it seems impossible to set certain properties. In the original you could, for example, create a door that opens with a certain kind of key. I always take over one house to store my stuff, yet I'm paranoid about leaving it unlocked (go figure). You could also scan the properties of items in the world with F9.

I'm not sure how stable Exult is in comparison with the original. I'd like to do some Sims style refurbishing of my place, but I wouldn't want to corrupt my save game this time.

 

[ShaggyMoose]

Just being able to play Blackgate with the magic keyring and other QoL enhancements makes it far preferred to the original for me.

My favourite memory from that game is:

Spoiler

finding the hidden group of seriously geared-up mercenaries that were preparing to attack Lord British's castle. The loot was amazing and it was also throughly unexpected.

 

[KeighnMcDeath]

I’d still like to see a good Turn-based mod/remake of this and maybe some remaking old ultimas into this style (with remastered tiles of the older games) So, basically what Eldiron is doing for U5 & the like this new engine could do for u7-like (though I do like some tiles in U8 as well).

 

[KeighnMcDeath]

Now, a bit off computer topic, I recall a yahoo group called hexmapper haven and one particular mapper who created the entire continent into hex maps. It was damn nice.

 

[Jaesun]

I'm not sure how stable Exult is in comparison with the original.

Several years ago I was playing through Ultima VII and SI with Exult and it's completely stable. Finished both games with no issues at all. But I have not played with the recent build.

 

[Infinitron]

You may have seen this book from Ultima 8:

Eye of the Boulder, The Runes of the Myth Drainer​

My love, my life, my doom! I began my search for the Eye shortly after my nineteenth year, while still in training with the Necromancers. Had I known at that young age what would befall me upon the completion of my undertaking, I would have spent my days differently, seeking companionship over mystic power; warm love rather than cold stone. But my desire for the Eye was all consuming.

It is said to have been found at the heart of an otherworldly chunk of rock, perhaps a part of some ancient tool or weapon, that fell from the sky during a time when godlike beings fought for dominance of this world and the worlds beyond. The Eye was later sundered into half a dozen finely chiseled runestones by the Leechlord, referred to in some texts as 'the Drainer of Myths'. The subsequent details concerning the runestones and their uses became the events of legend, as Tempests and heroes fought for possession of the pieces of the Eye.

Though it took many years, it was I who finally managed to collect all the pieces. And with each part of the Eye that I added to my collection, my power grew, enabling me to recover successive pieces with greater ease. Obsessively, I laid the groundwork during those years of searching, preparing for the time when I could finally reintegrate the six disc-like pieces of the Eye. On the day of completion, once I had enacted the last of the rituals, my primary apprentice and I fitted the Eye directly into the freshly carved socket at the base of my skull, linking the mystic stone's energies with those of my own nervous system.

Only then did I learn that the Eye's sorcerous operations were antithetical to my own. Immediately, its dire effects became apparent. My memory and other mental faculties grew weaker, the images I beheld lost resolution, and the sounds around me began to seem like bland reproductions. I left my hidden tower, staggering forward at a gruelling pace, one step at a time. And since then, the events of my days have seemed the tired tellings of a poor storyteller, and all I have wanted is release. I am ashamed to have wasted so much time and so many of my resources upon such a disappointing thing. I sought nothing less than the Ultimate, but instead received only a pale reflection, a hint of what could have been.

You may not have seen SSI's reply in Dark Sun: Wake of the Ravager:

Spoiler

 

[LB_wannabe]

In the screenshots thread of the "General Gaming" section of the forum I posted some screenshots of "Ultima VI Project" (Dungeon Siege mod) and "Ultima IV Rebirth" (Neverwinter Nights EE module).

About "Ultima IV Rebirth" (unofficial patched version) it's a mod for Neverwinter Nights EE that is actually sleeping, like the former incarnations have done for a while, anyway on reddit I found a good description of this module:

Spoiler

Mod: Ultima IV: Rebirth

So I've been playing around with the mod Ultima IV: Rebirth, and it's finally reached a largely bug-free state which, I think, is fantastic and well-worth playing.
Noteworthy aspects

• Players can generally gain ~26 levels, max
• Non-linear, open world play.
  • Some quests may require you to travel from one part of the world to the opposite side of the world, and back again.
  • Very little is explained in the beginning, this is an exploration-intensive game
• Can only play as human and as basic classes
• About 50 hours of gameplay

Installation
Installation requires downloading all of the files, and following the installation instructions in the "Ultima IV Rebirth 2.2.1b - Game Files" 7zip file. (dearchived using an unarchive program such as 7-Zip). Note that some files are not directly used to run the game, like the map is just a map graphic that shows you a zoomed-out version of the entire world (and corresponds with the map sections that quickly display on the screen when you change screens), all of the "Guide" files are document files that provide walkthroughs and background information, and you only need files from one of the directories from the csp_v2.1 file.

Background
Ultima IV: Quest of the Avatar was a game that was released in 1985, and was revolutionary for its time for being an RPG whose goal was not to kill the big bad. From the original manual, "The Quest of the Avatar is the search for a new standard, a new vision of life for which our people may strive. We seek the person who can become a shining example for our nation and guide us from the Age of Darkness into the Age of Light." By today's standards, the original rather primitive game that requires a user to use DOSBox or ScummVM to run, and is not very enjoyable for most gamers, unless you enjoy playing grindy, retro games.
In 2014, this game was remade using the NWN Engine into Ultima IV: Reborn. Much more enjoyable for today's audience. It was patched and updated many times up until 2018, but while it was completable, it was left in an incomplete state. Easter egg chests and documentation hidden in the game revealed that the original creator had planned additional side-quests and content that was never implemented.
In 2020, Reborn was remade using the NWN:EE Engine into Ultima IV: Rebirth. Rebirth implemented many of the intended additional side-quests and added a few Easter eggs of its own.

Gameplay
Altering the gameplay to match the Ultima IV gameplay has altered many aspects of playing.

• Spells
• Only the Main Character can cast class-specific spells. Also, the spells that can be cast are limited to the traditional Ultima spells. For the party members, spellcasting has been completely revamped to reflect how spells are cast in Ultima IV. Spells are traditionally only cast by purchasing reagents, creating spell scrolls, and then by giving these consumable scrolls to your party members to cast (and the MC can also cast spell scroll spells, which will be mainly how you'll want to cast spells anyways. Your party members really only heal).

Spells have also been renamed to match the Ultima lore. For example, Clarity is now "Energy Field" (prevents a character from being afraid when encountering a Dragon), Find Traps is now "Dispel" (can also be used to remove electric walls blocking the way and destroy other traps as well), and Dispel Magic is now "Awaken." The traditional NWN names can be found when casting spells from your in-game Spellbook though, so a bit of mental translation needs to be done when looking at your in-game Spellbook and looking at your inventory Spellbook or spell scrolls.

As a Main Character, you can choose any class, and you can also mix and cast any of the spell scroll magic in the game without the Use Magic Device skill (also, you can create scrolls and potions without the Craft Scroll or Brew Potions feats). You can also use any of the magical runestones without class restrictions.

• Resting
• Resting can only be performed at Inns, or by using Camping Gear in certain locations (not in towns). Camping Gear can only be used by the main character so long as your main character has at least one unit of both food and water.

Since camping gear is rather heavy, if you have a non-Strength-based character, you will need to have a strength-based character carry the camping gear around with them, and give it to your character temporarily when you want to set up a campsite for resting.

• Weaponry
• Weapons are largely limited by class. Paladins and Clerics can wield pretty much any weapon, while Monks can wield pretty much nothing--not even magic Kamas. This falls in line with how classes were limited in the original Ultima IV.

• Gold
• Defeated enemies don't drop gold in this version of the game. Instead, gold can only be found in strategic locations. In the beginning, it will be difficult to earn money.

• Classes and Game Plot
• In the original Ultima IV, there were 8 classes to choose from, each of which was associated with a city and a virtue. Proceeding through the intro would require you to answer a series of questions that associates you with a virtue, which chooses your class, and prevents you from recruiting a character from that class in the future.

In Ultima IV: Rebirth, you can choose your own class and even multiclass. Proceeding through the intro will associate you with a class, award you with some starting equipment and XP associated with that class, and will prevent you from recruiting a character from that associated class in the future.

There is also some in-game text referring to various in-game party member characters that might be confusing since the plot classes don't exactly match the actual class of your recruited party members. This chart may be useful to clear up that confusion:

In-game described class	Actual class of the party member in the game
Bard	Bard
Fighter	Barbarian
Mage	Sorcerer
Paladin	Paladin
Tinker	Cleric
Druid	Druid
Ranger	Ranger
Shepherd	Monk

• Limited Functionality Party members

NWN:EE was never built to accommodate 7 additional party members. If you have a full party of 8 players (yourself plus 7 recruited party members), some of the party members may...just not fight. The AI just doesn't function. It's not a big issue though. So long as you are attacking areas that are appropriate for your party members' levels, you should be able to destroy all enemies with only 4 other party members. So having 1-2 party members out of 7 that don't fight isn't a big handicap. If you find yourself being decimated by enemies, don't blame it on your distracted party members. You're probably just in an area that is too hard for you and you'll want to find a lower-levelled area to level up in before challenging that area again.

• Useless Skills

Like any NWN game, there are many skills that were not programmed to be used in the game. I'll list the completely useless skills here, and will leave it to you to figure out which of the rest of the skills are truly useful or are just kind of useful.

• Animal Empathy
• Appraise
• Bluff
• Craft Armor
• Craft Trap
• Craft Weapon
• Intimidate
• Lore
• Persuade
• Pick Pocket
• Ride

Beginner's Advice

Here's some spoiler-heavy advice for any beginners who may find it too difficult to start the game b/c you die in the beginning too much:

• Stick to the major cities in the beginning and level up by performing quests, not by hunting monsters. In the beginning, almost all monsters will be too difficult to defeat.
• There are 8 major cities, each with its own moongate nearby (the Trinsic moongate is a bit far from the city...from the city it's South and East, from the Trinsic moongate, the City is West and NorthEast. You can use the moongates to travel to each of the 8 major cities
• Each major city holds a character that you can recruit into your party. The character is of the class that is associated with that city.
• Once you have 3-4 party members from the cities, you can start exploring and killing monsters safely. The easiest area to explore in the beginning are the areas around Britain, the city nearest the king's castle.
• The King's castle is where you'll receive a lot of good information that informs you about the Quest of the Avatar and the world you are in
• The King will also let you know about Dungeons that you can explore. After you speak to the King about these Dungeons, these Dungeon names and locations are saved in your in-game journal (as a completed quest) listed from the easiest dungeon first, to the most difficult dungeon last.
• You can find a rudimentary weapon before you even enter the gypsy tent, and a couple of more basic weapons near the monsters near Britain. After you've defeated a few monsters, you'll find enough gold that will allow you to purchase more appropriate weapons/armor
• Pay attention to prices. Stores in different cities buy and sell goods at different prices.
• The most powerful weapons/equipment are mainly directed towards players that hack and slash. Some hidden Easter-egg equipment is geared towards handling a two-handed sword, while the strongest weapon in the game (achieved from completing a quest) is a quarterstaff.
• Eventually you'll learn that actions in the game will increase/decrease different kinds of karma. Stealing "owned" items will decrease your honesty and honor karma. In general, everything in a city or a town near living people is owned, except for books. There is one place in the game with very valuable books that should not be taken, and should only be read, but the way to take these special books is different than any other book in the game, so they should be easy to identify as something that an honest player shouldn't take.

At any rate, if you like this type of mod, enjoy! If not, please ignore. ^_^

 

[KeighnMcDeath]

Not many talk of this Dungeon Siege Ultima VI mod

 

[Denim Destroyer]

Now if only we could find a game with good combat and modding support so that away we can get a port of Ultima 7 into it.

 

[Alex]

Now if only we could find a game with good combat and modding support so that away we can get a port of Ultima 7 into it.

Why? We already have Exult.

 

[KeighnMcDeath]

EXULT have a full blown construction set? I never fiddled with it.

 

[Alex]

EXULT have a full blown construction set? I never fiddled with it.

Not really, you would need to learn to fiddle with the files yourself. That said, it is doable.

 

[LB_wannabe]

Not many talk of this Dungeon Siege Ultima VI mod

Yep, "Ultima VI Project" deserves more love, now they are finishing "Ultima VI Remake" for Exult using the colourful and lovely assets of Ultima VII, but "Ultima VI Project" still has a combat system
that is a bit more tactical.



Personally, I would also make an Ultima game with "Elders Scroll IV: Oblivion", I think its art direction is not good for an Elder Scrolls game (it's better the art direction of Morrowind or Skyrim) but it's perfect for an Ultima game.

 

[OndrejSc]

 

[OndrejSc]

 

[KeighnMcDeath]

Anyone been following that U7 project https://ultimacodex.com/2024/01/ultima-vii-revisited-version-0-0-2-released/

Even LB has been fucking with it. Not that it matters what the hell he does.

 

[KeighnMcDeath]

Kind of Ultima-ish. I had forgotten about this:

 

[Sukhāvatī]