Wasteland The Wasteland 2 Beta Release Thread [GAME RELEASED, GO TO NEW THREAD]

[hiver]

Nah, I just try to keep my pulse down until it matters. Folk here are doing a fine job bringing some of the problems to light. My point was just to wrap some extra bacon around the shit to make it look a bit more interesting, not to bypass fixing the issue.
I'm also pretty sure he's too curious to completely pass you over. I don't use the ignore function myself, but if I did, I couldn't help myself to take a peek even if I knew my eyes would start gushing blood.

Maaannn... you cant turn down mr. Winston Wolfe ask nicely request! It just isnt done! Its... its not right. Bad karma man. Very bad.

nah, i know he will take a look. thats not the problem. he wont reply and will go on pretending as if i wrote nothing at all. And i double dared him.
Which makes this a triple... quarto, quinto dare?

I just think he should have enough face to answer that after arrogantly stating that criticism here is because "we" dont understand game design... implying he does, him, the expert... (and then goes on to claim incredible idiotic things about Fallout on top)
Its a very small and very simple map-mission. Should be easy for such an expert.
(i know he doesnt know the answer, of course, which is the reason he is ignoring me now - because thats the only way he can avoid answering and pretend he keeps face - because like, he didnt even see that question, or other things)

 

[sser]

BTW, sser, have you played the game?

No. I've been watching the Twitch streams/YouTube vids and following a friend of mine. That's one of the reasons I mostly comment on the superficial stuff. Based on what I've seen, Hiver's comments are pretty spot on.

I don't think the game is looking good at the moment, but I also think they released it to the general public way too soon. The $59.99 ruin-your-first-experience price tag makes me worry that they've burned through their cash.

With 3x the Kickstarter money they really don't have any reason not to make sure WL2 is good to go when it's ready, but I swear there is something off about this project and there always has been. I'm a hopeful, but always been skeptical of this one. I think I've already mentioned elsewhere my leeriness of Kickstarter projects, particularly big ones like this.

 

[Infinitron]

No. I've been watching the Twitch streams/YouTube vids and following a friend of mine.

Then you should know that hiver's description of the beginning is inaccurate.

You're not being selected to save the world. You're a team of rookies being sent off to do a corpse retrieval job. And then finish the dead man's job - the job that was apparently considered easy enough that one guy was sent off to do it on his own.

The $59.99 ruin-your-first-experience price tag makes me worry that they've burned through their cash.

They haven't burned through their cash, they're swimming in cash. They just hired sea back in January in case you didn't notice.

 

[hiver]

Well, if only i said you were sent to save the world.... IF ONLY. Then according to Infinitron the world would be a better place. And he would know shit about what he is talking about.
Have you played the game at all infinitron?

- you do know i can just record the beginning and put it on youtube, right? I mean, even in ludicrous case other people cannot see for themselves.

You are sent on a very important mission, a private project that Ace was leading and general Vargas supported. Both considered it crucial to discover where those "radio signals" were coming from - since they thought Arizona was the only place that survived the apocalypse.
- Now, i think such stuff is rather important. Internally, in that setting and situation as it is presented. Which is confirmed by general Vargas himself.

Ace was going at it alone because he was very, very, VERY experienced ranger and didnt really listen to orders anyway, and they thought there would be no immediate danger in Arizona - obviously.

As far as that first small mission is concerned you are not going to save teh world - which is something infinitron invented and strawmanned in, - you are going to discover what happened to a very important ranger and his very important project.
(Fallouts did it much better too, in first your after a water chip to save your vault, in second you are presented with teh quest by elder that is presented like an old crazy crone and all you are after is saving a small village - while dialogue makes it clear the notion of teh chosen one is something looked at very ironically, laughable - which keeps for the rest of the game) - just in case someone wanted to harp about Fallouts here.

Vargas clearly says they dont have any other rangers to do it ad clearly describes how important finding out what happened to Ace is - despite the whole citadel and everyone around.

But the first mission is not the problem alone, since that first small mission is only a part of the whole prologue and is immediately followed by Ag center - Highpool false dilemma. Which also cannot be solved by anyone else but your team - since you know, rangers are unmanned.
(not to mention that citadel is geographically closer to both places then your team is when you get the call) And then that incoherent setup just continues.


Now of course, it all makes perfect sense, the idiotic incoherent start, the amounts of XP, the fact your team will have all the skills early on and that there wont be any differences in gameplay corresponding to stats and builds of your characters. - which means your character stats wont matter at all.

And the game will be based on player choices and player actions - instead.
As bn nicely finally admitted and explained.

WHICH MEANS - that XP and level up gains will be minimally adjusted if at all. You will still get bloated XP per a ranger as it is done now. (whole encounter gives a 100 xp but each of your rangers gets a 100 xp)
BECAUSE doing otherwise would go directly against the main design goal of "player choices".

- Which is the exact same thing bethesda did with their Fallout spinoff - only they used First Person view and twitch combat to please their target audience.




- Also, when you enter Rail Nomads, you only get a "radio call" from Ralphies mother asking for someone to find her boy. Then you go a bit forward and Jessie runs into you screaming how her friend is drowning.
Thats all you get to know about that case.

There is no word about two sides feud or Jessie being an Atchinson and Ralphie being a Topeekan. At all. - which is what bn claimed a page or two back in one of his replies.
Expert that he is on the game design and its narrative.

 

[Jedi Master Radek]

I am quite sure that it was stated by a team member in one of the official streams that after rebalancing it will only be possible to specialize in 60-70% of skills, and only after good grinding.

Brother None - Are level design (corridors!) and the way the narrative is presented a subject to future changes? I mean if those adjustment are already planned, not "if many complains, we will change it"?

 

[Daedalos]

Why are people thinking that the introduction and story are finished?

Yea the player starts kinda in the middle with no prior background of the story and setting.. and just being sent on a mission..

but that's all likely to change. Hell.. we probably get intro video and some nice intro stuff like fallout did.

You know, to get the player in the right mood, and a good start into the story and world itself..

 

[Lhynn]

Why are people thinking that the introduction and story are finished?

Yea the player starts kinda in the middle with no prior background of the story and setting.. and just being sent on a mission..

but that's all likely to change. Hell.. we probably get intro video and some nice intro stuff like fallout did.

You know, to get the player in the right mood, and a good start into the story and world itself..

Why do you question us? You think they are going to change shit if its not criticised?
You think we should sit back, say its ok and let them do as they think its right when they themselves have been asking for feedback?

Your fanboyism is actually hurting the final product.

 

[Daedalos]

Why are people thinking that the introduction and story are finished?

Yea the player starts kinda in the middle with no prior background of the story and setting.. and just being sent on a mission..

but that's all likely to change. Hell.. we probably get intro video and some nice intro stuff like fallout did.

You know, to get the player in the right mood, and a good start into the story and world itself..

Why do you question us? You think they are going to change shit if its not criticised?
You think we should sit back, say its ok and let them do as they think its right when they themselves have been asking for feedback?

Your fanboyism is actually hurting the final product.

What the fuck are you talking about?

The team have repeatately said that things are likely to change, heavily, still at this stage of development. Are you calling the devs outright liars or?

And I never said that criticism isn't good. Quite on the contrary, It's fantastic and paramount to good game development, but that doesn't mean things won't change or are permanently set in stone. (And even IF community driven criticism is lacking or un-contructive)

People still act as if things won't change, i.e saying that the intro sucks and story sucks... when obviously, that's gonna be altered and changed in 6 months time until release.. . so its pretty redundant pointing that out.. really.. and a few other instances.

 

[Kem0sabe]

I wish they would take my initial advice on how to improve the starting area, cant be bothered to look it up... but its better than what currently passes for an introduction to the game world and characters.

 

[Lhynn]

People still act as if things won't change, i.e saying that the intro sucks and story sucks... when obviously, that's gonna be altered and changed in 6 months time until release.. . so its pretty redundant pointing that out.. really.. and a few other instances.

No, they are past saying it sucks, they are saying why it sucks and how it should be made.

 

[DeepOcean]

The team have repeatately said that things are likely to change, heavily, still at this stage of development. Are you calling the devs outright liars?

Man, I wished lying to cover asses wasn't something so common on gamming industry, at this age you can trust in no one. The first update gave some credibility to inXile but always assume people are lying to you and confront them on every suspicious bullshit they do, just in case.

 

[felipepepe]

The whole "we/they gonna change it!" solves nothing. They made bad content, and instead of talking about what went wrong and debating new ideas and proposals to fix it, we get a bland "we`ll change it" & "it's not final", as if they already figured it all out and now only needed to execute it.

 

[Whiran]

The team have repeatately said that things are likely to change, heavily, still at this stage of development. Are you calling the devs outright liars or?

It's easy to say things are "likely" to change. Very easy. It's a good way to head off criticism without committing to anything.

The thing is, Wasteland 2 should is just weeks away from hitting feature lock. Do you really think that in less than two months they will go back and completely redo the starting regions? Realistically, what is in the game now for the starter zones is what will be in the game upon release with minimal changes. If they haven't gone back and done a full pass of the introduction stuff, plot, and story elements by this point it isn't going to happen in under two months. If they make changes at the start of the game to the story then those changes need to be carried all the way through the game. That would be a significant amount of work to update every NPC, every quest, every location, etc and would take those resources away from completing the game.

People still act as if things won't change, i.e saying that the intro sucks and story sucks... when obviously, that's gonna be altered and changed in 6 months time until release.. . so its pretty redundant pointing that out.. really.. and a few other instances.

No, not six months until release. It was three months until feature lock last month.

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/inxile/wasteland-2/posts/753216

That means according to their updated and revised and, apparently final, timeline the game is done in under two months time. After that it's a matter of testing, debugging, balancing followed by release.

 

[hiver]

From the way bn is defending several completely lousy, incoherent scenarios and narrative points that were criticized - i doubt any of it will be changed.
These scenarios i felipepepe and few others discussed and criticized are fundamentally flawed. Which mean they cannot be really fixed with some smaller changes. - case in point, every single one of the "reactivity" ... schticks? - bn listed. Worse of whom is ralphie scene. or...well, Ag-Highpool... since its much bigger and supposedly important. Cant decide.
- Its so fundamentally incoherent that the more you prod it the more it falls apart and more of inconsistencies fall out.

I have to admit i didnt even consider some of the things felipepepe mentioned. Because there is so many stupid things about it your brain starts to retreat from thinking about every angle.

besides, as i said - im not talking about some future version of the game i know nothing about. when that comes out, well talk about it.
If youll notice, my latest review on page 154 is actually optimistic in several parts of it, for which i now feel like an idiot.




-edit-
removed stupid this, stupid that. its stupid.

Spoiler

yeah yeah ok, ... lousy style, there, happy now?!

 

[Jedi Master Radek]

In Van Buren there was an idea, the player at the end of the game saves few of the cities he previously visited, but not all and he must choose which. By doing quests in them, exploration, reading important and flavor text, he forms connections or at least fondness/antipathy for each. And then, the nukes come and there is a need of choice. The feeling of a tragedy, the consequences.

It would really help if Wasteland give us an option to explore them earlier. Maybe the player would have to visit them to interrogate some of Ace's friends or in a search of informations? Maybe it would explain why use some anonymous rangers for that mission. I think that cutting some of the crisis areas and then rearranging them, changing some of the textures ,blocking parts of the location, adding flavor dialogues and maybe some minor quests, would do the trick.

 

[anus_pounder]

In Van Buren there was an idea, the player at the end of the game saves few of the cities he previously visited, but not all and he must choose which. By doing quests in them, exploration, reading important and flavor text, he forms connections or at least fondness/antipathy for each. And then, the nukes come and there is a need of choice. The feeling of a tragedy, the consequences.

It would really help if Wasteland give us an option to explore them earlier. Maybe the player would have to visit them to interrogate some of Ace's friends or in a search of informations? Maybe it would explain why use some anonymous rangers for that mission. I think that cutting some of the crisis areas and then rearranging them, changing some of the textures ,blocking parts of the location, adding flavor dialogues and maybe some minor quests, would do the trick.

Hmm...interesting. Miss VB all the more now.

 

[hiver]

Actually... that part in Van Buren is horribly hamfisted and fake, the game (if designed exactly per those doc) would force you to have an ending like that without any real reason. Except having a nukular explosion at the end for some extreme emotional engagement.
- While it does not allow any of the villainous places or factions to get chosen as targets on horribly thin pretext. Among other such facepalm unfinished scenarios.

Wasteland may only do that - theoretically - in some limited amount since- they would have to make extra content for it.

Didnt they say in some previous update that they will allow that? or do i remember wrong?

 

[Jedi Master Radek]

https://twitter.com/BrianFargo/status/446408960245915649/photo/1

 

[MasterSmithFandango]

https://twitter.com/BrianFargo/status/446408960245915649/photo/1

Explains the shitty fucking humor throughout.

 

[Deleted member 7219]

https://twitter.com/BrianFargo/status/446408960245915649/photo/1

Explains the shitty fucking humor throughout.

Looks like Bethesda Fallout 3 humour... strange to see it come from Fargo.

 

[shihonage]

Not strange at all. Fargo is a big picture PR man. He gave "Fallout" its name. That's what he excels at, he can organize projects, package and sell them. Other skillsets are less prominent.

 

[hiver]

I felt that talking to Vulture Cries, the new NPC, if you chose some specific key words, or direction of conversation, you could cause other option to become unavailable. Or that branch appears shortly and if you miss it or simply choose a different angle in your replies and questions - its gone and different things happen.

Im afraid i have to report that as a bug, now. Could someone upload it to that center thing, pls?

Spoiler

Spoiler

 

[Infinitron]

ITT people cannot into ironically cheesy humor.

UPDATE: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/inxile/wasteland-2/posts/785332

Quick Status Update

Hello Rangers,

First and foremost, we wanted to be sure all our backers knew that our $10 add-on which we've been offering on the backer store will be closing down next Friday, the 28th of March. This week will be the last chance to jump on board this limited-time offer.

On to other news. We're about a month into our three-month plan that we mentioned inupdate 44, things have been progressing well. We are simultaneously working to fix issues and bugs with the game in general based on feedback to the beta while other team members are moving ahead in finishing all the LA content. While the next beta update (coming soon) will not be quite as sizeable as the last one it is another significant content expansion (adding a new area) as well as UI upgrade (implementing the new barter screen). Here's what we said on it earlier on our blog:

The next update to the Wasteland 2 beta will be another sizeable ones. We are adding more content in the form of the missile silo map, an interesting location that is set to challenge your problem-solving skills. Here is a short description from Jeremy Kopman, the level designer on Silo. “Slashed across eastern Arizona is a deep, winding canyon that provides the only access to a vast, resource-rich valley. As if traversing the labyrinthine paths – full of vicious animals and sociopathic raiders – wasn’t hard enough, the area is controlled by a fanatical branch of the Servants of the Mushroom Cloud. These monks worship Titan, bringer of death by the Great Glow… and a live ICBM with a nuclear warhead. Too bad braving this deathtrap is your only way to reach your next mission target: Damonta.”


Other News
We've received a draft of the first of the two Michael Stackpole & Nathan Long novellas, tentatively titled The Earth Transformed. It will be going through rigorous proofreading and editing and then go out to our backers.

We've also made Wasteland 1 – The Original Classic available on Desura. We're very happy to be joining another fully DRM-free service that offers the game for Windows, OSX and Linux. The key generator on the Ranger Center will not offer Desura but if you're a Linux user who has been waiting for a fully DRM-free options, please do contact us here or on the Ranger Center and we'll get you a Desura key.

Shout-Out
And finally, we wanted to give a shout-out to an excellent looking Kickstarter project, Ashen Rift, a new take on classic shooters set in a barely recognizable, twisted and dead earth where you fight howling monstrosities. Worth a look for its atmosphere and unique ideas alone. Ashen Rift is from a smaller indie studio rather than the larger efforts we've promoted in this space, and we enjoy supporting the dreams of smaller indies to become professional developers.

Thomas Beekers,
Straightening out the Lines

 

[Infinitron]

By the way, Brother None says the anti-aliasing was broken when they took that screenshot, so don't be bitchin'

 

[Excidium]

ITT people cannot into ironically cheesy humor.

Eerything that is bad about Wasteland 2 is purposely bad for reasons