Wasteland The Wasteland 2 Beta Release Thread [GAME RELEASED, GO TO NEW THREAD]

[undecaf]

They could send the "raiders" you recruit from the Radio Tower (led by some "higher ranking" member) if you recruit them. Some additional "reactivity".

 

[felipepepe]

I say that W2 is a waste of a great setting because of stuff like that... many people in this thread already gave great ideas that would make the game special, yet God-Emperor MCA and inXile didn't show a single creative idea on the game yet.

 

[Jedi Master Radek]

It' would be nice if there was a surprise and Fargo really changed something with narrative and quest design......
Dreams are nice, aren't they?

 

[Bleed the Man]

I have to stop reading this thread... it's depressing.
I want to believe, god damnit!

 

[Ninjerk]

It's looking to me like Wasteland 2:Fallout:: Darkstone: Diablo 1

 

[SuicideBunny]

Some people may have interpreted them as the same thing, though.

interpreted? they are the same thing. reactivity is just a fancy alternate spelling for storyfag c&c and it means the world (storyfag) reacts differently (consequences) to different actions (choices) and complaining about trivial or negligible c&c in an rpg has always been a codex thing.

 

[Infinitron]

interpreted? they are the same thing. reactivity is just a fancy alternate spelling for storyfag c&c and it means the world (storyfag) reacts differently (consequences) to different actions (choices) and complaining about trivial or negligible c&c in an rpg has always been a codex thing.

I would say that in practice "C&C" often tends to imply explicit choice-making in the vein of Age of Decadence.

 

[hiver]

Again, how much "C&C" or reactivity can you anyway reasonably expect from the first few hours of a game?

I really dont care "how much" and is it deep C/C or this "reactivity". What i care about is - is it good.
Does it make sense, is it really engaging, really interesting and smart, witty, sarcastic or at least decent.

I have seen zero of any of those. Just cheap crap.

Second example: If you have Angela with you and you question that poor trader nobody who saw Ace fight with that synth that killed him... when you finish with it and get the last log book page from him (which you cannot fail at - three different options to get it are there) - she goes: "waah, you bastard let Ace die - you will pay for that!" and then kills the fuker.

Now, fucking excuse me, but what the fuck was that schmuck suppose to do? Was he supposed to fight some killer synth that can take out such a high level, super experienced badass ranger like Ace?
He is a nobody. A schmuck.
Why the hell would anyone expect him to do anything else but hide or run away?

- besides that, he isnt anyone you know, you see him for the first time and he is completely inconsequential to anything. So Angela killing him (for retarded reasons) doesnt really do anything, besides the fact she nicely waited for you to get the only important thing from him so killing him then doesnt make any difference to you - at all.


And if you really want to know what is the biggest problem with this little mission of Leve Lupe Mine:

That is actually bigger then:
1. the whole thing being obnoxiously cheap, simplistic and boring
2. linear
3. has no requirement for a single skill
4. passable with level 1 (although moderately difficult because HP bloat of enemies and high damage they can deal if you dont have any armors)
5. nonsense of six angry badgers waiting for you right next to completely unprotected miners that they dont attack - for "some" reason
6. nonsense of you setting the caps and blowing up the cave-in without any demotion skill requirement or use - while miners dont do it not to hurt the players ego
7. nonsense of blowing up those rocks in enclosed space while everyone is standing right next to them - and the rocks simply disintegrate - disappear.
8. some other angles i maybe missed

.... it is the fact that once you kill the badgers... there is no need to blow up the rocks blockading the exit.
Everyone can just leave the way you came in.

Which defeats the original purpose, or setup of the mission.

 

[felipepepe]

There's also the fact the the supplies depot is right outside the mine, meaning you could just get some TNT and blow the rock from the entrance. This could be a solution for people with high demolition skills - but since every party has every skill, you can't have a easy and logical approach, or everyone will do it.... thus, forced filler combat to all.

Not to even mention WHY there's a mining operation going on in such fucked up post-apocalyptic world... and in a mine infested with giant mutated badgers.

 

[hiver]

i honestly thought i saw all the bad things in it...(but made point 8 just in case)...ffs

 

[Infinitron]

Here's a nice blast from the past - February 2012:

Okay, back on topic.

What worries me also about Wasteland 2, is that the atmosphere of the original had really wacky elements.
In a way, it is far closer to TSR's Gamma World then Fallout ever came.

I'm unsure of how they can keep that atmosphere with improved graphics.

The minimalist style of the original helped when fighting stuff like:

You feel when like your fighting this:

Source: http://index.rpg.net/display-covers.phtml?mainid=2047

How do you go about translating this feel to isometric...

So now it has come to whining that replacing some low res barely colour static images will break 'immershun'...

Why do you people even want remakes? Just play the original 7 times! Wasteland is not Gamma World just as 99.9% of computer RPG's based on tabletop worlds are not 100% true to the art style or layout of the worlds described in the books they are based on. I don't see people howling that PS:T is not true to the material it is based on or FG.

Can't wait for Garriott to announce a remake of Ultima 1 and people to start whining that it's not going to be CGA.

Well, graphics serve a function--they're the manifestation of the game's mechanics. The old graphics support the old mechanics well.

If the graphics are made better, it's either to better support the mechanics or they're being created for the sake of better graphics alone.

The latter is retarded, especially on a game with a small budget, and probably doesn't need to be addressed.

The former implies that they're going to fuck with the game's mechanics, like the new JA game. It updated the graphics to support RTS mechanics. For people who want an old franchise revived, they don't want to see that kind of overhaul of the core mechanics. Isn't that the point of sequels? Refinement of the same rather than complete retooling? If a company's going to build a completely new game, use an original IP, for God's sake.

I don't think I share the exact concerns of @GrimMonk, but I think the resistance to new graphics has a basis. Nobody's saying it has to be identical to be good, but if they try to animate enemies like that, it's likely that 1) it'll look retarded, 2) they'll cut the more difficult to animate (and fun) enemy types, or 3) it'll cost them a lot of time and money that they either don't have or should be using to design other parts of the game.

The problem is not that I don't like "high concept graphics and production values".
The worrying aspect is that it might just end up looking silly...

Wasteland had even more "far out" (i.e. soft) sci fi aspects then Fallout did:
The Gamma World'ish Robots.
The Agricultural Center (15 foot carrots, 8 foot corn, Harry the Bunny Master...)
The Temple of Blood.
Ect, ect...

Stuff like this might work when its mostly in your imagination, but it's hard to represent in detail without looking stupid...

 

[SuicideBunny]

There's also the fact the the supplies depot is right outside the mine, meaning you could just get some TNT and blow the rock from the entrance. This could be a solution for people with high demolition skills - but since every party has every skill, you can't have a easy and logical approach, or everyone will do it.... thus, forced filler combat to all.

the whole location is a big lame joke. that's why it's named level'up(e) mine and why it's full of actual collectible shit. i just wish they would stop with those lame jokes and make some better ones.

 

[Infinitron]

Ah, here's another good one from February 2012, from a thread that was unfortunately disfigured by DU's nuking of the Drog-like "Knotanalt":

Someone explain to me how a modern Wasteland would be any different from Fallout

You have never played Wasteland?

Neither have I. Now kindly answer the question.

It wouldn't be so faggoty?

The Grim Monk guy pointed it out, but those are the reasons it's potentially better setting not reasons for it to be bad. In Gamma World and old Wasteland pretty much anything goes. You had radiation angels and the cult of the mushroom that worshipped the bomb and all kinds of weird stuff. Gamma World had psionic plants, hell you could play as a plant or crystaline lifeform. You could play as a Conan-like barbarian bashing in the heads of killer robots.


Fallout is like a hollywoodized, tamer version of Wasteland or Gamma World. Fallout had good stuff but places like shady shands and the hub and boneyard suffered from being too realistic and boring. Probably more realistic but not very interesting.

Alright, well, if you guys want wacky looney tunes shit in your post apoc then who am I to step in and say no? I'll just stick to Fallout.

As I see it at present, it boils down to:

1. They keep all the plot/elements of the original, and try to once again merge "wacky elements" with "dark PA" atmosphere.
The pitfall is that it might all end up looking stupid or corny (Ears of corn, eight feet high...), something the original Wasteland managed to avoid.

2. They basically take route of the original Fallout, more focus on semi-realistic "dark PA".
The "wacky elements" would be kept in a severely toned down form, and sprinkled throught the plot to prevent the player from starting to wallow in "grim-darkness".

I can't exactly wrap my head around on how a Wasteland game done today should be. Because when I think of the original, it's really not that coherent an experience (at least in my memories) - each location is really different from each other, there's no single theme to be found. Wacky postapocalyptic stuff of all flavors, really a themepark kinda. And the gameplays specialty was the world interactivity with skills of course - something like that will surely be there, but combat and skill system probably will be (plus should be) thoroughly revamped. The overall feel is quite tied to the interface, no way you'll do a game like that with todays tech, a game that's so abstract in a sense, it lets you use your imagination where with more descriptive graphics you'd have no room for that.

I just can't properly think of any single thing that they'd absolutely need to retain for the game to be considered a fitting sequel. Don't really have any real expectations either, quality- or otherwise, but I'll wait and see.

 

[felipepepe]

the whole location is a big lame joke. that's why it's named level'up(e) mine and why it's full of actual collectible shit. i just wish they would stop with those lame jokes and make some better ones.

Yeah, the joke of a shitty linear level with forced combat and pointless colectable shit would get across better if the rest of the game were different from it...

The Grim Monk guy pointed it out, but those are the reasons it's potentially better setting not reasons for it to be bad. In Gamma World and old Wasteland pretty much anything goes. You had radiation angels and the cult of the mushroom that worshipped the bomb and all kinds of weird stuff. Gamma World had psionic plants, hell you could play as a plant or crystaline lifeform. You could play as a Conan-like barbarian bashing in the heads of killer robots.

Fallout is like a hollywoodized, tamer version of Wasteland or Gamma World. Fallout had good stuff but places like shady shands and the hub and boneyard suffered from being too realistic and boring. Probably more realistic but not very interesting.

He's absolutly right here (except for The Hub being boring). The main difference on Fallout to Wasteland setting is that W1 was way more wacky and nonsense, a setting where anything would fit, while F1 & 2 were still wacky, but more focused on realism and thing fitting together.

The "wackiest"place in W2 is Ag. Center, and it's the same thing what New Vegas did with Vault 22 a couple years ago. W2 setting would actually support your party menber mutating into a giant fly or pod-person and still folowing you, but that would be cool and we can't have that. They only use the nonsense of the setting to cover plotholes, not explore creative gameplay.

 

[hiver]

the whole location is a big lame joke. that's why it's named level'up(e) mine and why it's full of actual collectible shit. i just wish they would stop with those lame jokes and make some better ones.

Yeah, the joke of a shitty linear level with forced combat and pointless colectable shit would get across better if the rest of the game were different from it...

Thats beside the point suicidebunny.

A bad, lame joke is no excuse for any of the points i made and felipepepe expanded.

 

[tuluse]

Grim Monk pretty much nailed it. The wacky elements do feel sprinkled in for some Wasteland flavor without really being Wasteland.

I think it's a missed opportunity. They could have gone much wackier and made something that would really stand out.

 

[Lhynn]

The "wackiest"place in W2 is Ag. Center, and it's the same thing what New Vegas did with Vault 22 a couple years ago. W2 setting would actually support your party menber mutating into a giant fly or pod-person and still folowing you, but that would be cool and we can't have that. They only use the nonsense of the setting to cover plotholes, not explore creative gameplay.

This so much, it has so much potential that it kinda hurts watching it go to waste.

 

[hiver]

Guys, if all else fails... we will be able to mod the good stuff in ourselves.

And i seriously aim to do that too.

 

[felipepepe]

Mods will fix it.

You and me Hiver, we do a "TR00 WASTELAND 2" mod. If the mod tools are good, that is.

 

[Infinitron]

Grim Monk pretty much nailed it. The wacky elements do feel sprinkled in for some Wasteland flavor without really being Wasteland.

I think it's a missed opportunity. They could have gone much wackier and made something that would really stand out.

I don't think that Wasteland was really Gamma World levels of wacky (even though closer to it than Fallout). It just seemed to have sort of aspired to that sort of thing visually. In the end, those 15 feet carrots and killer bunnies might just be some pretty scenery and trash mobs, respectively, after all...

 

[hiver]

Mods will fix it.

You and me Hiver, we do a "TR00 WASTELAND 2" mod. If the mod tools are good, that is.

I was hoping you would jump in too.

you got it.

 

[undecaf]

You can tell things probably aren't going too well when fixer mods are already planned ~6 months prior to release.

 

[Jedi Master Radek]

Mods will fix it.

You and me Hiver, we do a "TR00 WASTELAND 2" mod. If the mod tools are good, that is.

I was hoping you would jump in too.

you got it.

If tools are not too clunky, then I can try to make precrisis Ag/HP.


It all sounds like a death sentence.....

 

[tuluse]

Guys, if all else fails... we will be able to mod the good stuff in ourselves.

And i seriously aim to do that too.

Mods will fix it.

You and me Hiver, we do a "TR00 WASTELAND 2" mod. If the mod tools are good, that is.

I suggest Wasteland 2: Interesting Edition as the title.

 

[Infinitron]

Guys, if all else fails... we will be able to mod the good stuff in ourselves.

And i seriously aim to do that too.

Mods will fix it.

You and me Hiver, we do a "TR00 WASTELAND 2" mod. If the mod tools are good, that is.

I suggest Wasteland 2: Interesting Edition as the title.

In the meantime, they can practice by making "Temple of Trials, Arroyo and Klamath: Interesting Edition". I've heard those get rather boring after you've played them ten times in a row