Wizardry The Wizardry Series Thread

[Nael]

Only one and quite late in the game.

When your ninjas start one shotting everything, and i mean literally EVERYTHING you will understand why you don't need that much ammo.

Yeah, no.

No, yeah.

 

[Zboj Lamignat]

The only thrown weapons you can get "en masse" are the feather darts (I've put that in quotation marks, cause there is still not enough of them for even a single dual wielding throwing ninja to be using them all the time, and there are still much fucking harder to get then goddamn magical arrows and bolts that are infinitely more powerful). This means that you'll be doing 1-2 dmg per hit waiting for a critical to happen (and let's face it, other thrown weapons apart from doom stars aren't really much more powerful, and the amounts are pitiful) and probably changing to sling frequently, but thrown critical does not apply to that - tough luck.

Like I already said in the other thread - I'd love for ninjas to be good and already proposed how they can be fixed. Right now, apart from the well-known coc fearie build, they're probably the least cost effective class in the game.

 

[Snufkin]

Mook ranger with triple crossbow and giant sword is the king. Start with points in strenght, dex, speed. Then max strenght and dex. Dont be crazy about alchemy just use stamina spell. I always leave speed at value of 75, and use bard and his drum instrument found in swamps that gives you haste spell (+25 speed).

 

[Lonely Vazdru]

Ninja + returning shuriken.

Mook ranger with triple crossbow and giant sword.

I never understood the desire to make characters built specifically around one or two items that you either get half/late game or have to totally fuck-up your play to get sooner. It's like that Fragarach thing in ToEE...

And don't get me started on soloing party based games... Kensai/mages lovers and their ilk should be hung from a tree, shot, and ran over by a Buick

 

[DraQ]

Ninja + returning shuriken.

Mook ranger with triple crossbow and giant sword.

I never understood the desire to make characters built specifically around one or two items that you either get half/late game or have to totally fuck-up your play to get sooner. It's like that Fragarach thing in ToEE...

Triple crossbow can be preceded by double crossbow and you can make it fairly early. It can also be preceded by *any* bow or crossbow. Giant sword - well, you will probably need some backup melee weapon for your ranger anyway, so you can have a lot of practice with swords and Mooks are great rangers. Returning shuriken - throwing ninja is a pretty natural build (auto penetrate with thrown weapons!) so you will get a lot of practice before you get it.

 

[Snufkin]

The thing is there are 3 guaranteed drops of giant swords in this game. This is why i love to bring 3 mooks. The best thing is they are EXTENDED range of giant sword. And until you find them double and triple crossbows done by your gadgeeter are best bet. I would never solo all the way in wizardry 8 because there is so much mobs. All my characters are ranged with bows and crossbows and melee experts. I only use magic from instruments and gadgeets. Works like a charm with those stamina reg necklaces.

EDIT: There is also this awesome build with monk when you max critical strike, close combat and martial arts, switch to fighter and put on berserk for crazy damage.

 

[Zboj Lamignat]

Eh, mook ranger and ranger specifically aren't that awesome. Mooks have appalling speed and for ranger you basically have to invest heavily in dex and senses so you speed will stay shitty and strength unimpressive.

I had a mook ranger in my last playthrough and he was definitely the weakest link in my party though that was partially due to me larping a bit and dropping the xbow for ranger-specific bows. The funniest thing is that at one point I gave him the giant sword just for the lulz and he started being much more useful despite having 0 points in swords and close combat which should give you an idea how ridiculously underpowered ranged, theoretically critical hit giving, builds like rangers or ninjas are

I also got reassured that rogues and monks are best front line fighters period. Both have stealth, one is a crazy dmg dealer, the other crazy status effect and critical inflicter. You will get that without stupid metagaming, skill grinding, waiting for the one specific piece of equipment, repeating a fight 100 times to get that one piece of equipment, dual classing etc.

Also, Snuffkin's post reminded me about one thing I always wondered - does the Stamine spell actually give Alchemy/Water exp? I think I never saw my skills rise through using that spell.

 

[Snufkin]

Senses are only useful for mage types when you max piety and inteligence. I never put into senses because i never bring any casters, it just not good deal you wont get any AC or extra atacks from it. Only initative.

 

[Zboj Lamignat]

Um, eagle eye?

Oh, and critical hits are very dependant on you senses.

 

[Snufkin]

You wont ever need eagle eye. Check those tables:

http://i45.narod.ru/wiz/stats.html

There is plenty of stuff that gives attack rating.

 

[Zboj Lamignat]

I fail to see how that makes eagle eye "not ever needed"? Ranged combat, eagle eye and critical hits (also scouting, but that isn't all that important) - senses are very important for a ranged character. Especially since you basically have to count on those criticals, cause damage wise ranged builds don't have shit on melee.

Also a quotation from that very link of yours:
Suggested order for increasing statistics at level up:
Senses, speed, dexterity, strength, vitality, piety

 

[Renegen]

Stamina gives exp but only when used during combat. You can't spam it outside of combat, it's weird like that.

I find rangers to be fun incredibly late game when they have the highest attack rating possible in the game. Max dexterity, max senses, max ranged, max bows, max eagle eye. It's really satisfying to see them hit perfect shots that are so far away and do serious damage.

 

[Snufkin]

Senses only gives you faster speed when it comes to LEARNING critical strike. It does not give you more %. For every 25 skills in critical strike you get 1% chance.

 

[Zboj Lamignat]

Not really, exact formulas for many things in Wiz8 are unknown up to this point (for example people still wonder how lighting strike works exactly), but from people's observations that come from extensive testing crticals are definitely dependant not only on the skill level (for example for ranger ranged combat comes into play, but it is also unknown in what way), but also the equipment (unknown if it is simply summed with the skill bonus), the monster's and character's general exp level (some people argue that monster simply have their "critical difficulty" table, could be both) and stats. I also remember threads on various forums discussing ac and weight capacity influence, but I think it's bs.

 

[Snufkin]

For ranger I would go dex, str first, then sen and spd.

 

[Zboj Lamignat]

Well, if your ranger is also heavily based on using that giant sword then it's not a bad idea.

Shit, participating in these threads always gives me an irresistible urge to start another playthrough

 

[Snufkin]

I have irresistable urge to play KOTC2. Except it isn't out yet.

 

[stony3k]

Shit, participating in these threads always gives me an irresistible urge to start another playthrough

Same here any discussion of Wiz8 makes me go start it up

 

[DraQ]

For a brand new party that is quite powerful but slow to develop I have this secret recipe
Start with a Rawulf Cleric which we will switch to Lord at level ;

Bwuh?

Draco Bishop

I thought I was the only one trying this build, except I try hagning onto my picks as long as possible. More durable, better hitter in melee and backup breath attack while not a bad caster either (after the sloow start) but takes forever to get this powercast.

Elven Mage (once again depending on your preferences you can switch at level 5 to bard or smaurai...I would recommend bard is you are not that experienced with the game, since those free spells are great but the samurai get some pretty nifty special abilities like critical and better gear

Bwuh? Why would you dual mage into bard? This cuts off you magic development completely AFAIK.

Shit, participating in these threads always gives me an irresistible urge to start another playthrough

I have a playthrough on hold and 3 more pending.

 

[Admiral jimbob]

Are Bards absolutely worthless late game or did I just go really wrong somewhere?

 

[Major_Blackhart]

Bards don't have mage skills tho.
They have music, which is where their talent really lies.
Hex is great.

 

[DraQ]

I have had great success with the switch to bard, but having emphasis on magic from the start he had pretty good growth, and the magic skills mixed with the bard instruments really made him a an all arround powerhouse

But doesn't dualing to bard put a stop on character's development in terms of casting skill?
Wizardry is not a skill available to bards in W8, so it goes grayed out and can't grow any more, correct?

BTW I loathe carrying CDs for playing on my laptop and since the older cd fixes patchers dont work work in Win 7 I have to do it...any suggestions?

CD image and DT?

Are Bards absolutely worthless late game or did I just go really wrong somewhere?

You must have gone wrong somewhere. Bards can make pretty strong secondary melee combatants, or ranged combatants in additon to music. They can concentrate on rogue skills too if you want that instead.

 

[Major_Blackhart]

I believe that is correct DraQ, with regards to Wizardry.
However, why change the classes so soon?
They won't be able to learn new magic at all until those classes reach their respective 5th levels (so you'd be at level 10 essentially).

 

[Zboj Lamignat]

Switching classes isn't really all that great in Wiz8, apart from the very well known "start as a caster, switch to appropriate hybrid" build for extra casting prowess.

Are Bards absolutely worthless late game or did I just go really wrong somewhere?

Absolutely worthless is a stretch, but yes, bards do start very strong, then become even stronger and then grow rather unimpressive in the closing parts of the game. They still have Hex, Haste, Mass heal and Magic Screen which all remain extremely useful till the very end. Note that it is kind of opposite of Gadgeteer - a class that starts very weak, but later gets access to some quite powerful spells and becomes a rapid fire status inflicter with upgraded omnigun.

 

[DraQ]

I wouldn't say that bards are worthless. They can wield most interesting swords staves and daggers, they can use the worthwhile bows and crossbows, they can use semi-decent armours, they can develop skills required by those weapons without any problems, they have specialized equipment that gives them considerable free buffs to stats (how much does Ring of The Road give? +20 str?), resistances and even expert skills, and that's apart from music. They also level up fast, meaning a lot of allocable points you can put in primary stats and skills.

They are also arguably the best class to dual from late in game if you want bard that isn't a bard. This only costs them class-specific wearable gear, as instruments only need bard level and music skill - max the latter out, raise the former so that you can use all the instruments you want, and you're free to switch. You can, for example, turn your musician into plate-clad berserking warrior, while still using those points you've put into swords and close combat (dual wield too if you pumped that), or switch them to rogue for backstab multiplier without losing musical abilities.