Wizardry The Wizardry Series Thread

[DavidBVal]

OK, started Wizardry 3. Characters from 2 are reset to level 1 and stats lowered, fine. I lose my ninja, gotta reroll as thief, fine. But then my level 1 chars are completely demolished by any of the first encounters. I stand no chance, a few times I managed to just lose 2 party members but most fights are a TPK. Am I missing something here? Or should I be enjoying it as is? :D

 

[Watser]

It's just the start being brutal.

 

[BlackGoat]

Yeah, slow and steady

 

[octavius]

The start is made unnec'ly brutal by the stupid capping of stats right below the bonus treshold. 15 in all stats don't do you any good if you don't get a single bonus out of it.

 

[k0syak]

Blue Yellow Yellow Red?

Yes, this one. Actually, I wasn't asking for a solution (I've read it in the cluebook), but more about "how the player was supposed to figure this out"? As in, what kind of thought process could lead to the solution?
I guess, I'm saying that the puzzles in Wizardry 7 seem completely illogical to me. I'm sure I'm not the only one complaining about that... for example, reading this thread, octavius and Admiral Jimbob used walkthroughs to beat the game.
That sucks. Anyway, I downloaded the Cosmic Forge editor and I'll keep playing W7 and use the editor to figure things out. I found tinkering with it to be more fun than reading the cluebook

Played it for the first time when I was 12 and this specific one was kinda easy - you don't have a lot of quest items yet and not so many places to go realistically - there's a card device in Forbidden Zone if you manage to wipe the guards, but the clue card doesn't work on it. The Star Map puzzle is like the most BROOTAL ever though.

 

[Whisper]

I dont like that competing parties take quest items. This means i dont have full time to explore/level up.... crpg that makes your hurry. We may not like Skyrim but if there were some time limits, it would suck a lot.

 

[aweigh]

i hate those type of puzzles. I prefer navigational ones, like chutes/teleporters/invisible walls/hidden doors, with a sprinkling of Adventure Game-type ones for "flavor".

Wiz 5 had a perfect balance of AG-puzzles and navigational-puzzles.

 

[Whisper]

I feel like W8 is much easier that W7. First, this mana regen thing... Second its hp regen thing. And also combats seem harder than W8, especially since you cant combat in doors/narrow openings, your spells like fireball affect 1 group only. And also magic get resisted a lot from start of game, low lvl savant troopers for sure didnt resist spells as much as in W7.

 

[Whisper]

Any advise can i just ignore competing parties and take my time with slow leveling up, doing class changes, exploring every corner, etc.?

 

[Jason Liang]

V is my favorite of II-V. It's hard for me to compare Wiz 1.

Of course, it's hard for me to think of II, III and V as sequels. Today they would be considered DLCs. VII is probably the true sequel to Wiz 1.

1 -> 5 -> 4 ---------> 2 = 3 perhaps.

 

[aweigh]

Wiz 5 was the pinnacle of Wizardry mehcanics. With rest-anywhere and mana regegeneration mechanics dumbing everything down from Wiz 6 onwards and taking the focus completely away from actual dungeon gameplay the entire series became a completely different thing.

Wiz 6-8 are not Wizardry; they're great RPGs that should have come out under a different name.

Whisper

Don't stress out over char builds or whatnot in Wiz 8, the game is quite easy. However if it's your first Wizardry:

- Samurai class just max out the sword skill and the critical hit skill; max out speed and senses.

- ranger class just max out bow and eagle eye; max out dex and senses.

- Warrior class max out whatever weapons you like; speed, str and senses.

- ninja class just max out the beheading skill and max out throwing weapons; max out speed and senses.

- all other classes, specifically casters, just make sure party has caster-types that can cast: adamantium skin, boilerplate, magic screen, sleep spell, healing spells, resurrection spells.

damage-dealing spells are a waste of time.

There are no real dungeons for you to get lost in Wiz 8 so don't worry about none of that, but the game is a great RPG nonetheless. It was my first Wizardry, and I'm glad I played it first because after going backwards and playing the true Wizardry titles I doubt I could enjoy Wiz 8 now.

 

[octavius]

I dont like that competing parties take quest items. This means i dont have full time to explore/level up.... crpg that makes your hurry. We may not like Skyrim but if there were some time limits, it would suck a lot.

The competing parties and the dynamic world, which causes unpredictability, is the best thing about Wiz 7 IMO.
That OCD gamers hate time limits and unpredictability is an added bonus.

 

[Jason Liang]

For Wiz 7, worry about combat and build up skills like Swimming, Ninjitsu, Skulduggery, Kirijitsu, Mapping, etc... first. Don't worry about the maps until you can handle the harder fights.

I usually grind Savant Guards in New City until I've gotten all my profession changes done and combat/ magic skills maxed. This should only take a few days (in both real time and game time), assuming you know the secret fountain. If not, just proceed normally until you come to a good fountain and level up therein (for example in Munkharma, which is also good for practicing swimming). Make sure you completely understand the profession change mechanics (you want to keep changing class at exactly the same character level, usually level 4-6, to improve your hit rate) and design your character's race+classes carefully- read the FAQ from Software Specialties. I don't have my notes anymore but there are some very easy, very basic profession progression loops for Elves and Faeries, for example.

Example:

Elf Female Mage (start for Mana regen) -> Samurai -> Valkyrie -> Ninja -> Samurai
5 -> 12 -> 10 +2 -> 12 -> 12
10 -> 11 -> 10 -> 10 +1 -> 11
10 -> 10 +1 -> 11 -> 10 -> 10
7 -> 9 +2 -> 11 +1 -> 12 -> 9
9 -> 12 -> 10 +2 -> 12 -> 12
9 -> 14 -> 11 +1 -> 12 +2 -> 14
9 -> 9 -> 9 -> 9 -> 9

You can easily change class at level 4 or 5 with this.

Or the basic Elf Mage -> Priest -> Mage -> Priest is just about the fastest progression possible.

Elves are sick in Wiz 7. Faeries are more of a pain to work with (they painfully lack Piety) but it's worth it for an endgame Faerie Bishop (due to the mana regen bonus) or Faerie Ninja.

 

[Whisper]

But you take time leveling, you will lose race with competition party. I spend some time (not much) in New city and already got Lore that someone got *Temple* map somewhere.

What i should to get all maps myself - rush? (not knowing even where to rush)... rush with under-leveled party.

 

[Whisper]

Also why change lvl at lvl 4-5? I read somewhere that change at 8 is good.


Edit: in W8 i liked that you dont have to change professions to get good team.

 

[Whisper]

Also what party you recommend?


Is 6 fairy ninja's after profession change is worth it as end-game party?

How important is Mapping? How important is Scouting? Do magic schools level by themselves with casting?

 

[octavius]

For Wiz 7, worry about combat and build up skills like Swimming, Ninjitsu, Skulduggery, Kirijitsu, Mapping, etc... first. Don't worry about the maps until you can handle the harder fights.

I usually grind Savant Guards in New City

There's hardly a game with more trash combat than Wizardry 7, and yet you feel the need to grind? Instead of exploring the wide open world and try different areas if the current one is too hard.

 

[octavius]

How important is Mapping?

Not important if you do your own mapping.

Do magic schools level by themselves with casting?

No, only Oratory. Every skill point in magic skill is precious since unlike Wiz 6 you are forced to spend you skill points on different disciplines, which means you have to spend precious skill points on useless (since they go up so fast with use) Weapon skills instead. So class changing to get more skill points is more important than in Wiz 6.

 

[bussinrounds]

It's prob been mentioned here somewhere, but just spotted this over at the watch.

http://www.indieretronews.com/2017/01/wizardry-v-heart-of-maelstrom-snes.html

 

[Whisper]

There's hardly a game with more trash combat than Wizardry 7, and yet you feel the need to grind? Instead of exploring the wide open world and try different areas if the current one is too hard.

You do have to grind since if you explore you very fast come to monsters you cant kill with current levels.


Also, with HP/MP regen system, you dont want to be too far from fountains.

 

[Whisper]

If you cant train magic skills, i dont see how you get 100 in magic skill unless you are lvl 20+ (since 4 is often increase), if you ignore other academia skills ofc and put only in one magic skill. That is without class changes.


Also, what exactly Karma does?

Also what Intelligence does? (Piety increases mana for spells)

 

[aweigh]

you can finish every single wizardry just fine without class changing. oh, and, wizardry 4 doesn't even allow class changing! you play only as protagonist character who is pre-generated as a mage.

"class changing is the opiate of the masses!" - Maribel (dragon quest 7)

as for what karma does... all I know is you should re-roll until you get 10+ on it. it affects various things and basically works like LUCK stat for shit under-the-hood that, most of the time, you will never know what is being affected.

now... as for the seeming issues, "complaints", and other misc. observations you seem to be posting about regarding the gameplay mechanics of wizardry 7 (and/or wizardry 8)?

You are completely correct in quickly ascertaining that shit like regenerating mana/health and the insane amount of trash mobs that populate "trash areas" (a first in wizardry series), the mind-bogglingly retarded implementation of bad puzzle designs (and bad puzzles, period) in 7/8 and the stupid, stupid, STUPID and disposable NPCs and meaningless errands you that comprise the bulk of w7's "gameplay", and lastly the hyper-retarded and badly implemented "feature" of competing parties (they glitch/break the game and cheat you out of items, instead of actually enhancing the game world/reactivity)...

YOU'RE IN LUCK! I have a simple solution:

- play wizardry 3, 4 and 5 ports for ps1 instead! amazing orchestral soundtrack, polygonal and textured dungeons, option to change to classic wireframe graphics and that includes seperate option to change enemy sprites to original ones as well, instead of the updated ones.

- all wiz ports on ps1 are content-identical to the dos versions, thus completely eliminating the need to play those.



EDIT: wiz6 is also a nice balance between the remnants of (true) Wizardry gameplay from titles 1-5 combined with the beginning of the end of the western-side of the series as Bradley begins introducing his dumbed down mechanics.

wiz 6 is much better than 7 or 8, and wiz 1-5 are better than wiz 6; however, taken on its own merits, wiz6 makes a good case for being the best balance, the best mix of old wiz and "new wiz".

tl;dr: play wiz 6.

 

[octavius]

There's hardly a game with more trash combat than Wizardry 7, and yet you feel the need to grind? Instead of exploring the wide open world and try different areas if the current one is too hard.

You do have to grind since if you explore you very fast come to monsters you cant kill with current levels.

I completed Wiz 7 without grinding. Admittedly the areas outside New City, like Munkharama and the Orc area, were quite brutal even with imported artefact weapons, so grinding in Wiz 7 is not quite as autistic an idea as in most other CRPGs.

 

[aweigh]

For Wiz 7 I recommend sticking to single-class characters and going with races with balanced attribute spreads.

 

[Whisper]

I like in W8 that you are free to make any party, i have great time with 6 bishop party. Now i am playing 5 rogue/1bishop group and having a blast.