Wizardry The Wizardry Series Thread

[k0syak]

How much is problem is NPC competiton at first place? Does it make me hurry during all game?

You can track down the parties that have the maps you didn't get in time. There is a spell for this and you can also ask the NPC's where other NPC's are. Or ask them the map name to find out who has it.

Also, what usually happens after some time - D'Rang T'Rang and his pals slaughter all the opposing NPCs, so if you find the bug, you find the maps.
The Rattkins are very weak, and Boerigard is a whimp who usually gets himself killed the moment you set him free.

 

[Whisper]

Is it me or game too hard?

Start to save girl from T'rang assasins, each hitting 3 times for 20+ dmg paralysing each hit. Wtf?


W8 is really easier on it: you cant miscast spell unless you risk it, you can bottle-neck enemies, you can start fight from distance, most AOE spells work on all enemies and not 1 group, there are much less resistant enemies in start of game (in W7 you get slime fight and alchemist cant poison/acid, and thats only type of dmg he has at start) etc.

Also debuff last much longer (you cant wait out paralise or insantiy in combat), mana regen is VERY slow.

 

[Lady_Error]

If it's too hard, you're not supposed to go there yet. You've never played an open-world game?

 

[Jason Liang]

Is it me or game too hard?

Start to save girl from T'rang assasins, each hitting 3 times for 20+ dmg paralysing each hit. Wtf?


W8 is really easier on it: you cant miscast spell unless you risk it, you can bottle-neck enemies, you can start fight from distance, most AOE spells work on all enemies and not 1 group, there are much less resistant enemies in start of game (in W7 you get slime fight and alchemist cant poison/acid, and thats only type of dmg he has at start) etc.

Also debuff last much longer (you cant wait out paralise or insantiy in combat), mana regen is VERY slow.

Ah. Now you understand what we mean by popamole.

 

[Whisper]

Ah. Now you understand what we mean by popamole.

The fact that i need to run to fountain after every few fights is just extra annoyance.

The fact that i had to reload and re-do fights to get other stats at lvl-ups (so i can class change) is also just extra annoy.

I didnt mention other things like clunky automap (why? if you add it, make it convenient) or that i cant check enemy status (in W6 it seems possible) or HP.


Game is good and i enjoy it a lot, but W8 did better job. W8 is also hard if you have little experience with it, but it doesnt make sure to annoy you for no reason with fake difficulty.

 

[Whisper]

Wizardry 8 was great. But you have to REALLY love lots of turned based combat, and not mind constantly respawning enemies. Some of the larger encounters took half or a full hour to complete. Not joking.

What encounters? Never took more than 5 minutes, same for full mage group (AOEing) and for full rogue group (single-target only).

 

[Whisper]

Fully munchkinish would be fighter, rogue, bard, gadgeteer and two bishops. Or
fighter rogue/bard and four casters.

What munchkinish party would be for W7?

 

[ilitarist]

The fact that i need to run to fountain after every few fights is just extra annoyance.

This is an example of one of the worst RPG tropes and it's still plaguing the genre. In most of RPG you can always go back and spend couple of minutes on getting to bed or some other healing place. You are usually not time limited so the only reason not to do it after every fight is cause it's boring. Some games, like those JRPGs with random battles, solved the problem by making backtracking dangerous too and added places of rest through the level, usually before boss battles too.

The worst implementation ever is in King's Bounty games. After each battle where you suffer loss you should go back to creature dwelling to buy more of them. This is just common sense and unlike RPGs you can't spend resources to "heal" fallen troops. Made those games increasingly unplayable for me even though they're kinda great.

 

[Gangrelrumbler]

Yeah, it's especially absurd in M&M 6-8. The party can run so fast that no monster can hope to catch-up with a running party, so it's almost impossible to fuck-up unless you go after monster that can 1 hit KO you.

 

[Whisper]

The all magic party is realtively funny and deceptively powerful. Mage,Priest,Alchemist,Psionic + 0-2 Tanks in front. Choose races with the highest Piety values(Rawulf,Dwarf for Tanks, mostly Elves for the mages). Raise Piety for EACH member (Even the tanks), Intelligence for the mages, Dexterity for the Tanks. After that Speed and Vit for the mages and Strength + Speed for the Tanks.

That gives you Iron Will which will enable you going without the combat shield spell and also protect against ALOT of special effects of attacks. Also it gives the mages endless spellpoints. Try to save spell picks except for the most critical ones (Buffs + basic attack/debuff spells) until the vendors. This party is relatively powerful and can make the lack of instakill attacks up with the assortment of high-level instakill spells.

You dont need tank for all mage (=bishop) party.

 

[mmap]

Yeah, it's especially absurd in M&M 6-8. The party can run so fast that no monster can hope to catch-up with a running party, so it's almost impossible to fuck-up unless you go after monster that can 1 hit KO you.

Well, it's is impossible to lose in MM6-8 because you, well, can't die (you'll always get resurrected). That's not a bad design, it just means that the challenge is in optimizing your party and getting stronger, such that you don't have to run away or kite or otherwise waste your time. MM6 was great in that respect, the later games were serious decline ("compensated" by them being much easier).
Wizardry games have essentially the same design; except the way to get stronger in minimum time is class switching, instead of just exploring the world and using what you found (spells, fountains, etc) like in MM games.
The main problem (IMO) is that class swithing is obscure, poorly implemented (encourages save scumming) and makes the characters similar to each other. It could've and should've been better.

 

[octavius]

Class switching also means lower class level, a number which is used in just about every combat calculation.

 

[Whisper]

Yeah, it's especially absurd in M&M 6-8. The party can run so fast that no monster can hope to catch-up with a running party, so it's almost impossible to fuck-up unless you go after monster that can 1 hit KO you.

Well, it's is impossible to lose in MM6-8 because you, well, can't die (you'll always get resurrected). That's not a bad design, it just means that the challenge is in optimizing your party and getting stronger, such that you don't have to run away or kite or otherwise waste your time. MM6 was great in that respect, the later games were serious decline ("compensated" by them being much easier).
Wizardry games have essentially the same design; except the way to get stronger in minimum time is class switching, instead of just exploring the world and using what you found (spells, fountains, etc) like in MM games.
The main problem (IMO) is that class swithing is obscure, poorly implemented (encourages save scumming) and makes the characters similar to each other. It could've and should've been better.

For Wizardry 8 you dont really need class switching.

About W7, you need at least 1 class switcher (caster-support) so you can get several spells. If only W7 had "proper" bishop as from W8.

 

[mmap]

Class switching also means lower class level, a number which is used in just about every combat calculation.

Yeah, but how much lower? Quadratic growth in XP requirements (up to level 11, IIRC?) means that several changes in class at, say, level 7 will ultimately result in lagging behind by maybe one level; tons of additional skill points, mana and new skills more then compensate for that. That's the deal with class switching, isn't it?

For Wizardry 8 you dont really need class switching.

Yes. That was poorly worded by me; class switching is mostly a W7 thing. Pre-Bane Wizardries didn't even have skills, I think? Bane just wasn't difficult enough for switching to be really worth it, and W8 changed the system (a bit of a waste, IMO, it was an interesting system and I think it would've been better if they improved it instead).

 

[octavius]

Class switching also means lower class level, a number which is used in just about every combat calculation.

Yeah, but how much lower? Quadratic growth in XP requirements (up to level 11, IIRC?) means that several changes in class at, say, level 7 will ultimately result in lagging behind by maybe one level; tons of additional skill points, mana and new skills more then compensate for that. That's the deal with class switching, isn't it?

Well, it certainly was noticeable for me in Wizardry 6, when my only single class character was the only character able to shrug off spells cast by high level enemies. Just 2-3 levels made a difference.
I'm not an accountant so I don't care much about detailed formulas, but it's possible high martial arts skills don't help much when you really need them - against high level enemies - if your class level is low.
Personally I use the class switching in Wiz 7 to get magic skill points. In Wiz 6 there's not that much need for it, since you can spend all your skills points as you please, although due to how mana recovery is calculated, using starting class, it may be a good idea to start as Priest and immediately/soon switch to Valkyrie, for example.

 

[kmonster]

Don't worry about getting the maps before the other parties, the chance is low that an important one ends up at an NPC you can't get it from and the game becomes unfinishable (but you can still use an editor). Combat in the game (including slaughtering other parties) can be trivialized by grinding and levelling up, no matter whether you change classes or not or what party composition you choose. Don't bother too much about skill points either, simply level up more if you want more.
Combat difficulty is random, saving every step and reloading until the opponents appearing are somewhat balanced to your level and can be beaten is intended, you aren't doing anything wrong if you do so.

So don't worry, just pick a party and play until you get fed up.

 

[DavidBVal]

So what's considered the best route to have a trap-disarmer in a Good-aligned party in wiz 3? My ninja was switched to evil when imported, and having a thief looks like a waste of good spell slots. Having a bishop is already bad enough.

What I'm trying is, as my mages were Good, I rolled a neutral one. After level 9 or 11 I'll change it to thief; until then I lose many chests. but I wonder if there's a better way I'm missing.

 

[octavius]

Go with a neutral Thief. He will not be very useful in combat, but is still worth it IMO, since he will save the party from most of the grief from opening trapped chests.

 

[Wayward Son]

Put him in back with the mages and give him massive agility and luck. Can't you use (H)ide in Wiz 3, or was that only in the NES port?

 

[octavius]

No Hiding in DOS Wiz 3. That was first in Wiz 5.
So better put thief in the rear rank.

 

[Jason Liang]

You can get your Ninja to switch to good, actually. Just have him parly with monsters enough times. Basically, you can have Good/ Neutral/ Evil characters of every class, except those that can cast Cleric spells. Clerics, Bishops and Lords must be Good or Evil; they can't be Neutral.

 

[DavidBVal]

You can get your Ninja to switch to good, actually. Just have him parly with monsters enough times. Basically, you can have Good/ Neutral/ Evil characters of every class, except those that can cast Cleric spells. Clerics, Bishops and Lords must be Good or Evil; they can't be Neutral.

But according to manuals, he's not supposed to gain more ninja levels if I switch him to good.

I think I'm going to stick to my plan, level 9 mage so he gets a few makanitos and other utility, then switch to thief.

 

[Eggs is eggs]

I always wanted to buy an Apple II, buy the first 4 Wizardries and beat them all in their original form. Not sure if that would be good to put on my bucket list, or an absolute waste of time and energy.

 

[octavius]

You could always play them with an Apple emulator. Should be much quicker than the real thing.

 

[Eggs is eggs]

But then you lose the authenticity feeling. Not only are you role playing as 6 adventurers in a dungeon below Lylylgamn, but you also get to role play as a kid in 1985 playing the hottest new RPGs! :D