Wizardry The Wizardry Series Thread

[ore clover]

I very rarely grind (in the meaning covering already explored terrain to trigger encounters, the Wyverns in MM1 being a prime example) myself, but I do like to map every square of a blobber.

Grinding is kind of like admitting defeat. The only game I was tempted to do some serious grinding was when I replayed Bard's Tale 1 and found the last couple of levels absolutely brutal. But I had already beat the game before (Amiga version as a kid), so I didn't bother.

That's a good point you mention about grinding, since you can technically just do it forever if you feel like it. I did grind one time, when two of my chars lost a level via a shade; I didn't want them to lag behind everyone else, so I just had the two of them fight a bunch of murphy's ghosts on the first level. Besides that I stuck to whatever experience I naturally acquired from wandering the floors.

I completely agree with you actually, but I don't think I felt this while playing Wiz 1, in fact looking back it's amazing that such an old game has such better balance than a lot of later games such as Bard's Tale, and even than my own darling, M&M1. I also agree with octavius about the random encounters in BT and much prefer the hand-placed fixed encounters.

It's been a couple years now since I last played MM1, so I can't be sure which does it better, but I agree that it and Wiz 1 handle encounters pretty well. Not to knock on MM2, but I consider that an example of random encounters I eventually grew tired of. Although maybe that was just because it felt a bit like they took MM1 and bloated it.

I hope I don't give the impression that I consider Wiz 1's random encounters and grind unreasonable. I still prefer fixed encounters, but I've had a lot of fun with Wiz 1's setup.

 

[Lady_Error]

Did the T'Rang ending in Wizardry 7 for the first time. Apparently it also gives the best starting location and some other goodies in Wizardry 8, like instant access to the Arnika teleport.

Haven't played Wizardry 8 since it came out. Are there any must-have mods, eg. to speed up combat? Is there a widescreen mod?

It's too bad Wizardry 8 doesn't allow to import any really high-level items like Wizardry 7 did with the Muramasa Blade and such. Still, I got some of the highest level gear I could get over: Studded Hauberks, Stunrod, Lutes for the Bard, No-Dachi, Crux of Crossing, Broadsword+1, etc.

 

[Grampy_Bone]

Absolutely get the Wiz8Fast mod, speeds up the combat a whole lot

http://wizardryvault.com/file-downloads/

I haven't tried the other content mods.

Best weapons I imported were three Mystic Spears. Very handy for most of the game.

 

[Emmanuel2]

Are there any must-have mods, eg. to speed up combat?

Use this.

In conjunction with Wiz8fast (movement speed) and/or Cheat Engine speedhack (sprite animations + time)

 

[Lady_Error]

Best weapons I imported were three Mystic Spears. Very handy for most of the game.

Where do you get those in Wizardry 7? It's a Spear+2 there, right? Never found one though.

EDIT: My GoogleFu revealed that Captain Boerigard may have one for sale. Need to check if he is still alive.

 

[Grampy_Bone]

I bought all my Spear+2s from the Gorn king during the 10,000 times he stalked me around the game.

 

[Lady_Error]

Yeah, the Gorn are all dead in my game.

Regarding the Gorrors, I never killed the Fiend of 9 Worlds before, but this time it was actually quite easy. I guess you just need the right strategy and high enough stats for the party to get through. He killed something like 5 of my summoned Godzilys in the process.

Didn't try the Beast of 1000 Eyes though, since that sucker is pretty much unkillable for any party below Level 50 or something. And you'd need Bat Amulets for everyone.

 

[octavius]

Didn't try the Beast of 1000 Eyes though, since that sucker is pretty much unkillable for any party below Level 50 or something. And you'd need Bat Amulets for everyone.

I'm glad my characters didn't know that, since they beat him (it?) at lvl 28-36. Don't remember how many Bat Amulet's I had, but I recall the key was realizing that Resurrection can be cast in combat.

I thought you were Wizardy 7 fangirl number 1, and ate Gorrors for breakfast?

 

[Lady_Error]

Well, all of them, 'cept the Beast. And yeah, I suppose resurrecting people like crazy could work too. But if you want to get through without deaths, a much higher level party is necessary.

 

[Grampy_Bone]

I remember the Beast spamming his AOE spell that killed multiple people repeatedly enough there was no chance for rezzing everyone. I was around level 25 at that point I think, maybe lower because I hadn't hacked through all the robots on the bottom floor yet.

The Gorrors are interesting though because they might be the first example of a western CRPG putting in optional bosses way harder than the final boss. The only other ones I can think of are Baldur's Gate 2 with the Twisted Rune group and Kangaxx. JRPGs became famous for it but I didn't see it catch on in the west.

 

[octavius]

Well, all of them, 'cept the Beast. And yeah, I suppose resurrecting people like crazy could work too. But if you want to get through without deaths, a much higher level party is necessary.

That's what I too found out, and in desperation I tried the Resurrect spell, and to my surprise it worked in combat. Too much playing Gold Box and IE games had "taught" me that Raise Dead and Resurrection is a Camp only spell.

The Gorrors are interesting though because they might be the first example of a western CRPG putting in optional bosses way harder than the final boss. The only other ones I can think of are Baldur's Gate 2 with the Twisted Rune group and Kangaxx. JRPGs became famous for it but I didn't see it catch on in the west.

There's also Dave's Challenges in Death Knights of Krynn and Pools of Darkness.

 

[Pyreen]

The Gorrors are interesting though because they might be the first example of a western CRPG putting in optional bosses way harder than the final boss. The only other ones I can think of are Baldur's Gate 2 with the Twisted Rune group and Kangaxx. JRPGs became famous for it but I didn't see it catch on in the west.

There's also Dave's Challenges in Death Knights of Krynn and Pools of Darkness.

And in the Wizardry series itself, LaLa Moo Moo (thanks Bradley) from scenario 5 is an optional encounter that's significantly more difficult than the last boss as well.

 

[Darth Roxor]

LaLa Moo Moo (thanks Bradley)

aint got nuffin on 'amen-tut-butt'

 

[aweigh]

ore clover

if you want to simply jump straight to the ultimate polished pinnacle of Wiz-style blueprint design then go get Elminage: Gothic for Windows PC (2.99 USD on Steam currently). made by the japanese-branch of devs that Sir-Tec contracted to make the japanese Wizardry games, Wizardry Empire 1-3 (first two are available on Windows PC, with the 2nd one having been fan-translated by actual Codexers and, IMO and the O of M others, the best canon-Wizardry scenario ever made).

After they "lost" the license to continue the Wiz Emp series they began making the Elminage series and it is, as I began above, simply put the Wiz-clone taken to the umpteenth level with every mechanical system polished to its natural degree/conclusion. It features the best item enchantment system you'll find in any Wiz-clone as well as a very addictive poke-ball type of thing with the Summoner class and capturing/contracting enemies (with bosses being on the menu).

Neither of those two things are necessary for a playthrough of Elminage: Gothic but I simply mention them because they are the two biggest and best additions (among many), or at least the two most visible additions, to the Wiz-blueprint that was not present in any way whatsoever in a previous scenario. Everything else the game does is simply Wiz 5 (with cherry-picked additions from Wiz 6) gameplay elements polished to a mirror sheen.

Map design is as expected of veteran blobber devs above-average and after the first few dungeons the map layouts only get better and better. There is simply no argument to be made as to who are the true successors of the Wizardry mantle and it is Starfish studios with their Wiz Empire and more to the point, their Elminage games.

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If you instead want to continue playing through classic Wiz scenarios I recommend scenario 5, as it adds much to the blueprint such as ranges for weapons among a few other key ingredients.

My favorite of the first five scenarios in terms of map design is scenario #3, but #5's addition of weapon ranges and exuberant item list makes it the best "real-Wiz" scenario out of the first 8. (i.e. the western-developed ones).

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As I read through your review of your experience playing thru Proving Grounds I'd like to remind you that the scenario was released 30+ years ago. It really blows ones mind when one considers how robust the game play is especially when played for the first time 30 years after its release with no previous experience with the style of game play.

Frankly, it puts to shame the game play mechanics of 95% of "modern RPGs" when Proving Grounds simple systems of tying drops to map floors instead of to enemies or to areas and the "delicate balance" of fixed encounters and random encounters outshine and upstage or, at the very least, compete with, game play mechanics of recently released games.

 

[Dungeon Lord]

In Wizardry 6 what does the Energy Drain trap do exactly? My thief set off the trap and nothing happened eventually.

 

[Darth Roxor]

In Wizardry 6 what does the Energy Drain trap do exactly? My thief set off the trap and nothing happened eventually.

I think it saps your magic points

 

[Gnidrologist]

Can someone suggest some kind of unorthodox party combo for W8? I've played pretty much all theme/solo variants i could come up by now. Would be interesting to see what kind of fucked up bunches you had the most interesting experiences with.

 

[megidolaon]

Can someone suggest some kind of unorthodox party combo for W8? I've played pretty much all theme/solo variants i could come up by now. Would be interesting to see what kind of fucked up bunches you had the most interesting experiences with.

"Hurdygurdyzardry 8". All-Valkyries party, with the same Swedish voices for all of them. Meelking de cows and gelding de bulls, bork bork.

 

[Gnidrologist]

Okay.

 

[ore clover]

ore clover

if you want to simply jump straight to the ultimate polished pinnacle of Wiz-style blueprint design then go get Elminage: Gothic for Windows PC (2.99 USD on Steam currently).

I've heard some good things about Elminage (mostly from you and fluent, come to think of it ). I'm working on clearing out a backlog of games I already own at the moment, but I'll consider giving Elminage a whirl after that.

If you instead want to continue playing through classic Wiz scenarios I recommend scenario 5, as it adds much to the blueprint such as ranges for weapons among a few other key ingredients.

My favorite of the first five scenarios in terms of map design is scenario #3, but #5's addition of weapon ranges and exuberant item list makes it the best "real-Wiz" scenario out of the first 8. (i.e. the western-developed ones).

It's still up in the air whether I'll try Wiz 5 or 6 first. I've wanted to go through 6-8 for a while, because sci-fi, but I've enjoyed the mechanics of Wiz 1 and wouldn't mind jumping into a scenario that expands on them.

As I read through your review of your experience playing thru Proving Grounds I'd like to remind you that the scenario was released 30+ years ago. It really blows ones mind when one considers how robust the game play is especially when played for the first time 30 years after its release with no previous experience with the style of game play.

Frankly, it puts to shame the game play mechanics of 95% of "modern RPGs" when Proving Grounds simple systems of tying drops to map floors instead of to enemies or to areas and the "delicate balance" of fixed encounters and random encounters outshine and upstage or, at the very least, compete with, game play mechanics of recently released games.

That's a very good point that you and a couple others have mentioned, and the game's age didn't even cross my mind while compiling my comments. I'd like to think that's a testament to the game's quality that I didn't think, "I should go easy on Wizardry; it's ancient after all!" Playing through the game, I didn't feel like it was holding my interest due to novelty, or nostalgia. Like you said, it's an impressive feat that the game still holds up 36ish years later.

 

[aweigh]

y'know, give wiz 6 a go if you want a break from "real-Wiz". i very much enjoy Wiz 6, both on snes and later on DOS, though i did not finish 100% the DOS version. Got halfway thru and got sick of it, as i had already finished the snes version.

it adds dual-wielding (wee), a shit load of new races of which half are completely redundant, and introduces equal amounts of decline (stuff like lockpicking is now Oblivion-style mini-game and trap disarming is now a quick time event-equivalent), but it still manages to feature some good dungeon areas (nothing as inspired as scenarios 1-5, as Bradley... sigh, he wanted to move as far away from "dungeons" as possible, which means the dungeon areas are mediocre and the other areas are just... areas you trawl thru).

features many more NPCs than previous scenarios, even counting wiz 5's butt-load of NPCs, but again in decline-fashion they're unkillable and they're all there to rail-road you. It really is a classic example of a game series being overtaken by a new lead designer who simply put wants to make a completely new game series but, at least in the case of wiz 6, has the couple of braincells required to realize he should still keep the rock-solid Wiz-mechanics, i.e. the combat/classes/etc.

of course he fucked 'em all up as much as he could, but Wiz-blueprint is so undeniable, so inmutable, that it's impossible to completely erode Wiz-mechanics greatness. the Wiz-blueprint's foundations will always remain solid as fuck.

Wiz 7 i don't care for it, and Wiz 8 is completely different from any previous Wiz. I actually really like Wiz 8.

Also, for whatever reason (complete freedom, i suppose) the expanded roster of NPCs in wiz 6 are atrociously written and frankly embarassing. you do stuff like get a stuffed teddy bear for a dude who won't come out of his room in the 1st area and after you do that he gives you some nonsense item that allows further progress. it's all unbelievably dumb.

It might seem i'm hating on wiz 6 but it's a very good game. Seriously. just don't expect a comparably challenging, engrossingly emergent game playing experience as with normal-Wiz. (rest anywhere, MPs instead of vancian, etc, decline list goes on).

Remember to also put on your list Wizardry Gaiden: Throb of the Demon's Heart for SNES, recently translated by Codexers. It's a fantastic Wiz scenario, and, similarly to wiz empire 2, it cherry picks from #5 and #6 all the best stuff.

 

[Darth Roxor]

the temple of ramm in wiz6 is leaving me at the brink of a nervous breakdown

 

[Darth Roxor]

aaaaaaaaaaaand finished

tldr game was fun until the river styx, from the river styx onward it just kept giving me the cancer of all cancers, and the temple of ramm is just the epitome of that

although i did laugh my ass off when at the final fight i killed xorphitus with combined alpha strike in first round, then everyone in the party except commander boreale was nuked to oblivion by the greater daemons

but it seems somehow boreale ended up with 746973496% fire resistance so he just shrugged off every fireball and nuclear blast and proceeded to solo the 4 greater demons while not giving a fuck

good that i had a bunch of amulets of life in my backpack because i honestly couldnt be bothered trying to reload for a 'better' result



i dont think i remember the last time a game made me as furious as this piece of shit though honestly, my "favourite" part was probably all the fucking 100000% resistance vs all + constantly blinking enemies at the end, this might just make it into the top of my canon of the most retarded things i've ever witnessed in a crpg


now on to wiz7

this better be worth it

 

[Lady_Error]

Did you equip the ring? And Muramasa? At least Wiz 7 lets you import the latter, unlike 8.

 

[Darth Roxor]

yeah