Wizardry The Wizardry Series Thread

[villain of the story]

I read the title as "installing Windows 8 on Windows 7".

 

[ghostdog]

The game only supports 4:3 aspect ratio and it stretches at all widescreen resolutions. No fix as far as I know.

 

[Bruma Hobo]

What's so great about the first Wizardry?

Maybe it's just me, after all I'm an Ultima fanboy... But I'm playing Wizardry I (Super Famicom version) for the first time and It just bores me. The game is just a dungeon with endless trash mobs and some traps. The combat it tedious, character developent is too limited (ok, it's good, but the best builds are too obvious), and the only challenge consist in memorizing the maze and and grinding weak creatures to buy some überweapons before advancing to the next floor.

I guess in the early eighties it was a revolution, but today it's just a boring grindfest... I think computer RPGs have surpassed it in most ways, even most shitty JRPGs.
Yes, I like permadeath, but most roguelikes are more rewarding, in Wizardry the dungeon is always the same.


I don't know... Should I play another version (DOS, Apple II) or skip these games and play Wiz6 instead? Or maybe I need to grind some more and keep going, I'm cleaning the third floor, I didn't play that much.

 

[Wyrmlord]

Skip them. Go for the Sir Tech games instead.

 

[MMXI]

Maybe it's just me, after all I'm an Ultima fanboy... But I'm playing Wizardry I (Super Famicom version) for the first time and It just bores me. The game is just a dungeon with endless trash mobs and some traps. The combat it tedious, character developent is too limited (ok, it's good, but the best builds are too obvious), and the only challenge consist in memorizing the maze and and grinding weak creatures to buy some überweapons before advancing to the next floor.

Compare the game to the very first Ultima. Ultima was a shallow RPG-lite game, featuring single character gameplay and two combat options (move and shoot). Character development was almost non-existent with all characters able to max their statistics by grinding the signposts. Wizardry, on the other hand, featured full party creation, multiple character classes, way more spells and far more tactical combat. It may seem boring today, but historically it was a masterpiece.

I guess in the early eighties it was a revolution, but today it's just a boring grindfest... I think computer RPGs have surpassed it in most ways, even most shitty JRPGs.

No. The first Wizardry is still to this day a better RPG than some JRPGs like Chrono Trigger.

I don't know... Should I play another version (DOS, Apple II) or skip these games and play Wiz6 instead? Or maybe I need to grind some more and keep going, I'm cleaning the third floor, I didn't play that much.

I've always preferred the DOS version myself.

Skip them. Go for the Sir Tech games instead.

What the fuck does this mean? Wizardry 1 is a Sir-Tech game.

 

[Wyrmlord]

I am sorry, I thought the Sir Tech everyone knows was the one with D. W. Bradley?

And that the first few were made by a lawyer and a scientist who made it purely as a hobby affair?

They called it Sir Tech even back then? I didn't know that.

 

[Crooked Bee]

Maybe it's just me, after all I'm an Ultima fanboy...

Stopped reading right there.

Wizardry I was, is, and will remain a masterpiece, from its dungeon design, unrivaled by any other RPG except maybe Wizardry IV and Dark Heart of Uukrul, to its spell design and its ball-crushing, sadistic level of challenge.

Fucking ultimafags.

 

[Jack]

↑​

 

[eric__s]

It's also got a fairly complex character and class system that makes developing characters pretty fun. It gets much more expansive in 6, but it was already way more involving and interesting than D&D or any other computer RPG at the time. That actually still holds true for the most part.

Ultima VII vs Wizardy VII. One has the best bread making system of all time. The other has the best class system of all time.

 

[Bruma Hobo]

Forget what I said (for now), I'm playing the DOS version and having having fun now (getting my ass kicked).

Maybe it's just me, after all I'm an Ultima fanboy... But I'm playing Wizardry I (Super Famicom version) for the first time and It just bores me. The game is just a dungeon with endless trash mobs and some traps. The combat it tedious, character developent is too limited (ok, it's good, but the best builds are too obvious), and the only challenge consist in memorizing the maze and and grinding weak creatures to buy some überweapons before advancing to the next floor.

Compare the game to the very first Ultima. Ultima was a shallow RPG-lite game, featuring single character gameplay and two combat options (move and shoot). Character development was almost non-existent with all characters able to max their statistics by grinding the signposts. Wizardry, on the other hand, featured full party creation, multiple character classes, way more spells and far more tactical combat. It may seem boring today, but historically it was a masterpiece.

Well, Ultima was never a combat centric CRPG (unlike Wizardry), Ultima is about the world, the NPCs and that kind of shit, so of course Wizardry had better combat.
About character development, Ultima I had stats influencing different actions (increase Charisma to sell at higher prices, Intelligence to buy items at lower prices, Wisdom to buy magic at lower prices, Agility to steal without getting caught), allowing more interesting builds (for a 1981 game). Wizardry instead have more stats, but most of them are useless, because every party member has a definite role, and there are only 4 classes for a 6 characters party (at first).

But yeah, Wizardry is the better game IMHO, and more polished too (I never liked the older Ultimas)... And that fucking maze is pretty fun, so I will keep playing for now

 

[Crispy]

What's so great about Wizardry: Proving Grounds of the Mad Overlord?

Now? Nothing. Of course not.

But back in 1981 it was truly incredible. Nothing like it had ever existed, and the excitement it brought to my little 13-year old D&D loving mind was indescribable. Create a party of six characters, three fighters, a priest, a mage, and a thief. Roll for their stats. Equip them with starter equipment. Name them. Venture off into the unknown.

I seriously cannot begin to convey the impact the moment we (my family and I used to play it together around the old Apple II+) encountered our party's first fight. Oh, the glory of turn-based combat! Fighters should swing, of course, but what spell should the priest cast? What about the mage? Okay, at first level there weren't many choices but you get the point.

Levelling up, what glorious fun! Finding a new, magic sword! GAH that was awesome.

Then you started getting into some of the more devious design decisions that Andrew and Robert made, such as the dark areas and the teleporting or spinning rooms. Manual mapping of every level on graph paper. Finding hidden rooms. Not to mention permadeath for characters (NOOOOOOOO!!!!!)

Gaining enough levels to advance to one of the elite classes like Samurai or Ninja. Realizing you're reaching some of the lower levels of the dungeon, with the very deadly creatures. So many things to look forward to, it was all so new!

Again, it was glorious. Nothing will begin to approach that feeling ever again. I lived a fun childhood, and I owe a large part of it to games like Wizardry.

 

[MMXI]

Well, Ultima was never a combat centric CRPG (unlike Wizardry), Ultima is about the world, the NPCs and that kind of shit, so of course Wizardry had better combat.
About character development, Ultima I had stats influencing different actions (increase Charisma to sell at higher prices, Intelligence to buy items at lower prices, Wisdom to buy magic at lower prices, Agility to steal without getting caught), allowing more interesting builds (for a 1981 game). Wizardry instead have more stats, but most of them are useless, because every party member has a definite role, and there are only 4 classes for a 6 characters party (at first).

Except you're basically supposed to grind your attributes up to maximum to beat the game. Ultima 1 just isn't much of an RPG. Same goes for Ultima 2.

 

[Jasede]

Maybe it's just me, after all I'm an Ultima fanboy...

Stopped reading right there.

Wizardry I was, is, and will remain a masterpiece, from its dungeon design, unrivaled by any other RPG except maybe Wizardry IV and Dark Heart of Uukrul, to its spell design and its ball-crushing, sadistic level of challenge.

Fucking ultimafags.

Not that I don't agree with you about the ultimafags, but-

Dungeon design masterpiece? Wizardry 1? Oh come on. It was amazing to map out the first few floors... and they were well designed, yes. And then you get the ribbon and kill Werdna without ever going to any floor that isn't the last two. >_>

Come on, EVERYBODY did it that way. Grind ghosts, get ribbon, go to 9, fall down the chute, victory. It'd have been a better masterpiece if we were forced to slog through all the other dungeon levels! But they don't have any great loot worth getting.

Which is a shame because as you correctly said, they have some great floorplans. But since you can skip half of them, is that really great design?


Then again, maybe that's now how you played it. But I'm just a spoiled modern kid going the path of least resistance.

 

[Crooked Bee]

Dungeon design masterpiece? Wizardry 1?

Yes.

Come on, EVERYBODY did it that way.

No. That'd require meta-gaming knowledge, which you shouldn't have on your first playthrough. At least I didn't. The fact there was no way to access B9 from B8, as well as a handy elevator available, was supposed to be the ultimate trolling, not the easy way out as you present it. You don't yet know that when you're wandering around underground with no sense of direction, no clue about what you should be doing, and fighting monster hordes where death is just an unlucky roll of a die away.

EDIT. And "grind on ghosts"? Really? Encounters should come naturally as you map out the game, not by way of grinding. That way you're supposed to encounter all the various monster types the game has to offer, including such enemies as Giants or Will O' Wisps that bring loads of experience. So you don't really have to grind on weaker enemies in WizI if you play it the way it's supposed to be played.

 

[Jasede]

I didn't have any guide available at the time and the elevator definitely was an "easy way out". You get the ribbon, you find the elevator, and you instantly notice that you can take it all the way to level 8. From there I randomly explored and found the chute, and that was that.

And by grinding on ghosts I mean that whenever someone perma-died, the fastest way to replace him was to kill a couple of Murphy's Ghosts to get your new guy up to snuff, so they were able to take on the Poison Giants and Will O' Wisps.


Come on, don't tell me the elevator needed meta-knowledge. As soon as you get the ribbon - which you have to get to get there anyway - you can see for yourself that it goes all the way. What adventurer would chose to idle on other levels when he can just zoom straight to the bottom? From there it's just a matter of instant death spells to profit from the big experience to be had.

I don't know. I just play a game to beat it quickly. If it doesn't force me to explore a certain part, I won't, unless there's something important to be had in there. In Wizardry I that wasn't the case.

 

[thexspr]

adventurer

If it doesn't force me to explore a certain part, I won't

 

[Jasede]

Oh come on! Don't take me so literally. By force I meant "no reason to adventure there".

Okay, imagine this. You're a band of young adventurers. Your job is to kill the evil wizard at dungeon level 9. At level 5 you find an elevator that goes all the way down to 8. What adventurer would go to level 6 first? No, he'd be daring and bold and try to see how spooky level 8 is, so he goes there first, vowing to leave if he can't handle it.

And then he finds that, in fact, he can handle it just fine. He even finds a chute leading to level 9, and manages to barely survive against the monsters there.

Now tell me, why would an adventurer find any reason to go back? There's plenty of possible reasons: a looked door, a missing password, need more treasure- but none of those applied. You can survive dungeon level 9 just fine if you use your spells carefully and beat Werdna, even if it may take a little luck.

The game doesn't encourage you to go anywhere else. Am I really so wrong?

 

[Menckenstein]

Played it on NES, I enjoyed the music but I was terrible at the game.

 

[thexspr]

Without meta-knowledge you can't tell for sure there's 'nothing interesting' there, and even if there's none an adventurer would go just to see it for themself. Plus whole mapping thing, which was a big game in itself at least for me.

 

[Jasede]

It was for me too- until I got the ribbon and saw I can go to level 8, and then saw that I can survive there just fine. So I thought, why not? If something stops me- like a locked door, or not having enough gear- I will go back. But it ended up not being the case.

 

[Clockwork Knight]

Come on, EVERYBODY did it that way.

I don't think many people had the balls to skip 3-4 dungeon levels in a game with permadeath. I'd see the elevator offering to take me there, yell NOPE, IS TRAP and turn back.

 

[Crooked Bee]

Jasede

Judging by what you've said, we two have COMPLETELY different playstyles when it comes to RPGs. I usually take it slow and thorough. I was meticulously mapping out all the levels in my first playthrough, and I believe the game really shines when explored that way.

And really, I don't think the game encourages you to take the elevator ASAP. But maybe that's just me.

Also,

By force I meant "no reason to adventure there".

Exploring the dungeon is reason enough!

 

[Jasede]

It's strange. I used to do that, too. You know, go every corridor, find every map square, and so on. Then, as I got older, I changed and it developed into "find the most efficient way through".

I blame bad jRPGs for doing this to me. I think this started in Final Fantasy X which I found so tedious that I just fled from every single battle after 25% in and made a beeline for the exit in every map. The final bosses were tough with that kind of preparation.

The last big jRPG I played was Nocturne. I really enjoyed it, but I still powered through it quickly. Near the end I wondered if I should make some of those super demons I read about, since I only had Pierce on the MC. But I decided that it was too boring to try to get them and said "screw it" and beat the final uber boss with the MC being the only one who could deal damage. It was pretty good, but also somewhat underwhelming. That fight was hyped to me beyond belief! (This was on Hard).

Tough random encounters, that game.

 

[Crispy]

It was nice of you to admit that that's a flaw. I really don't blame you for doing it, unless you were doing it earlier in your CRPG career, when the hidden places in them actually mattered and were worth finding.

 

[Saxon1974]

For those who have played this is wizardry 1 worth a play?

I love the bards tale series so is wizardry just like that with worse graphics? If so I will pass on it but is there more to it?