Butthurt There's a nigger and gay sex in Kingdom Come: Deliverance 2!

[Deadass]

enjoy your kingdom woke chuds

 

[Elttharion]

Biography. Daniel Vávra was born in Rychnov nad Kněžnou, before moving to Prague. He has partial Jewish ancestry

 

[DKunit]

For reference, here's a map of Mali in 1337, basically at the height of their power. By the time of KCD, they would be on the decline.

I'm personally not against "diversity" that's historically accurate, however it seems to me that they basically included the closest black people they could find. Because while there would've been people from Northern Africa and the Middle East in Eastern Europe, they're not black.

Considering that there was criticism against KCD specifically not having black people -- and Vavra famously stated that there weren't any black people in Bohemia -- I have to say I find this quite suspicious. In fact, the Twitter post Vavra responded to referenced the Moors, who weren't actually black but were north of Mali and thus closer to Europe. Did the historians that Warhorse works with discover some new documents about feminist black Muslim scholars chilling in Bohemia?

While they would have been on the decline, the Malian Empire went through a very long, slow decline. They still would have been very wealthy at the time. And since there was not much realistic Malian art from that period, they probably went of that famous piece of Mansa Musa that portrayed him as very dark-skinned.

 

[S.H.O.D.A.N.]

Never heard of Mansa Musa and empire of Mali, does it make any sense that trader from there would find himself around Kuttenberg?

It doesn't make much sense, because that's not how trade worked in that time period. Even if a trader from Mali would want something from Bohemia that he couldn't otherwise purchase closer to home, he wouldn't go there to buy it. Long distance trade was facilitated through, often very long, chains of intermediaries and agents. It was credit and goods that travelled, not people.

Is it possible that a man from Mali ended up in Kuttenberg in early 15th century? Yes. Is it probable? No. Does it make narrative sense? I very much doubt it.

 

[Hag]

It was credit and goods that travelled, not people.

It could have been an ambassador or simply a curious guy. There have always been travelers at all times - in particular from wealthy countries.

I'm actually kind of curious about the guy now.

 

[Ascetic]

While they would have been on the decline, the Malian Empire went through a very long, slow decline. They still would have been very wealthy at the time. And since there was not much realistic Malian art from that period, they probably went of that famous piece of Mansa Musa that portrayed him as very dark-skinned.

The point is that even at its largest, Mali was quite far from Europe. The Portuguese trade post in Cap-Vert in 1445... that's when the Portuguese first arrived. In other words, the first -- and Western-most -- Europeans didn't even reach Western Africa until decades after KCD is set.

 

[DKunit]

While they would have been on the decline, the Malian Empire went through a very long, slow decline. They still would have been very wealthy at the time. And since there was not much realistic Malian art from that period, they probably went of that famous piece of Mansa Musa that portrayed him as very dark-skinned.

The point is that even at its largest, Mali was quite far from Europe. The Portuguese trade post in Cap-Vert in 1445... that's when the Portuguese first arrived. In other words, the first -- and Western-most -- Europeans didn't even reach Western Africa until decades after KCD is set. Of course, Africans have always been more intent on getting.

Very true. Eh, I'll wait and see how this guy is written. Assuming these images are real, he isn't even a trader, but a scholar and explorer.

 

[Cpt. Dallas]

Are they tagged essential?

 

[thr]

If it gets confirmed (and I doubt anyone would bother photoshoping this), then it's a no buy for me. It will not make just Vavra into an absolute clown, but also all those fans who were defending Warhorse for years against the ridiculous demands to add blacks. You can't say there were no blacks in medieval bohemia, hold that position for half a decade, and then go "jk here have a negro in medieval bohemia".

 

[Habichtswalder]

Never heard of Mansa Musa and empire of Mali, does it make any sense that trader from there would find himself around Kuttenberg?

It doesn't make much sense, because that's not how trade worked in that time period. Even if a trader from Mali would want something from Bohemia that he couldn't otherwise purchase closer to home, he wouldn't go there to buy it. Long distance trade was facilitated through, often very long, chains of intermediaries and agents. It was credit and goods that travelled, not people.

Is it possible that a man from Mali ended up in Kuttenberg in early 15th century? Yes. Is it probable? No. Does it make narrative sense? I very much doubt it.

Also, Kuttenberg is not a city by the sea, but is located in the interior of a continent. If merchants from other countries made personal purchases in Europe, it was probably in port cities, if at all.
It would have been very inefficient for a merchant (or any other person) from Africa to travel to the interior of today's Europe with the travel possibilities of the time, there would have to be an extraordinary reason for this.
To my knowledge, the presence of people from sub-Saharan Africa in Bohemia at the times of KCD is also not historically justified, as Warhorse has repeatedly argued by themselves in their defense in the course of discussions when KCD 1 was released. That's why I find it strange to opt for such an ahistorical figure now, provided it's not a fake.

 

[Melcar]

It's over.

 

[cvv]

Unfortunately it doesn't look fake. I'm sure Warhorse won't stoop to some brainless Bay Area wokeness, they'll explain and justify everything but it's still disappointing.

As thr writes it makes mockery of the millions of fans that defended Warhorse for years from journos and other retards. Some of the more radical anti-woke tubers like Doctor Disaster or Vara Dark will rip Vavra a new one for this.

 

[NecroLord]

This troll post is going around /v/. I'm spreading it here, because I'm a part of the problem.

 

[cvv]

enjoy your kingdom woke chuds

The dindu is embarrassing but this is different, Jews had been a widespread minority in Bohemia for centuries by the time the game's taking place in. Authenticity-wise they should've been in KCD1 already but Warhorse didn't have enough time and resources to do them properly so they only got a Codex entry.

 

[NecroLord]

AYO, Henry, lemme axe u sumthin:
WERE DA BOHMYAN WIMMIN AT, NIGGA???

 

[thr]

Unfortunately it doesn't look fake. I'm sure Warhorse won't stoop to some brainless Bay Area wokeness, they'll explain and justify everything but it's still disappointing.

As thr writes it makes mockery of the millions of fans that defended Warhorse for years from journos and other retards. Some of the more radical anti-woke tubers like Doctor Disaster or Vara Dark will rip Vavra a new one for this.

There are some people claiming its fake based on some image analysis. Sounds like cope to me, but let's wait a little. If it's real, then I believe Warhorse will have their core fandom turned against them, and it won't be nice. And I won't feel sorry one bit.

 

[NecroLord]

Unfortunately it doesn't look fake. I'm sure Warhorse won't stoop to some brainless Bay Area wokeness, they'll explain and justify everything but it's still disappointing.

As thr writes it makes mockery of the millions of fans that defended Warhorse for years from journos and other retards. Some of the more radical anti-woke tubers like Doctor Disaster or Vara Dark will rip Vavra a new one for this.

There are some people claiming its fake based on some image analysis. Sounds like cope to me, but let's wait a little. If it's real, then I believe Warhorse will have their core fandom turned against them, and it won't be nice. And I won't feel sorry one bit.

It's fucking real nigga.
Just negro scholar who made his way into Kuttenberg (though it would be more believable if he was a merchant or trader, I guess).
Still, Warhorse was supposed to keep its ZERO NIGGERS policy.

 

[cvv]

There are some people claiming its fake based on some image analysis.

A few years ago I'd have zero doubts it was real. It looks extremely authentic. But today with AI image generators you can't trust anything so yeah, let's reserve our judgement.

Still, my best bet is it's real. It's so weird, I can't imagine Vavra cramming the dindu in voluntarily but I can't imagine anyone being able to do it against his will either, knowing what a pigheaded abrasive asshole he is. Eh, let's wait and see.

 

[Elttharion]

>Black dude in a medieval setting in the middle of Europe
>Instead of a trader he is an explorer (jogger), scholar and doctor
>Its the camp's doctor, so presumably someone with authority among whites or there is a whole camp of negroes
>Lectures you about how so much better his country is and that you should treat woman better in yours

Yeah, thanks 'based' Vavra

 

[DKunit]

Well, it's good to know we've finally reached the point where discussion around this game will be fucking unbearable going forward.

 

[DKunit]

The guy who posted it on 4chan is saying the Malian guy is the doctor at Sigismund's war camp.

 

[thesecret1]

I know gypsies were in, but I am surprised to see a guy from actual africa. Never heard of Mansa Musa and empire of Mali, does it make any sense that trader from there would find himself around Kuttenberg?

There is no reason not to. Since there was active diplomatic and commercial activity between Europe and China in the 14th Century it would make sense rich African empires would be around too.

No there wasn't. The reason why Marco Polo (14th century btw) was such a big deal was precisely because it was not something people would normally do. "Trade" between China and Europe wasn't done by some dude loading up shit in China and selling it in Europe. It was made by a dude in China selling his shit somewhere in central asia, where another dude sold it in persia, where another dude sold it in Syria, where it got loaded on a ship and finally reached a European port. They really weren't doing some ridiculous monster trek where they'd go all the way there and back, and similarly, a trader from Mali would've sold his shit in northern Africa and go back, and certainly wouldn't travel to central Europe.

Of course, one could argue he was an explorer rather than trader, as making such treks was indeed possible. I do not know of any Malian explorers from the 14th century, but I don't deny their existence either. But does such ridiculous exception really merit representation in the game? For what purpose? It doesn't illustrate how life was back then, as the overwhelming majority of people would've gone their whole lives without meeting such an explorer. Why is there a desire to find however improbable excuse to include nigs in the game?

 

[thr]

The guy who posted it on 4chan is saying the Malian guy is the doctor at Sigismund's war camp.

That would be hilarious, because that would mean Warhorse acknowledging all the woke journos accusing them of racism being right all along - a negro as a part of Sigismund's army could have been included even in the first game! They just decided against it because they were racist! The commonly used justification of more diversity in a bigger, more cosmopolitan city doesn't apply in this case. Total self-humiliation.

Btw this is election bilboard of a czech parliamentary party from this years, which was displayed on the main Prague square. Can't imagine czechs being more welcoming to black doctors in 1403 lol.

Shortcomings in healthcare will not be solved by imported "surgeons".

 

[DKunit]

It still would make sense to have not seen any in the first game. Apart from the small group of Cuman forces at Pribyslavitz and the scattered Cuman camps, we were mostly fighting Toth's bandit militia. The large majority of Sigismund forces would have been stationed out of our reach.

 

[thr]

It still would make sense to have not seen any in the first game. Apart from the small group of Cuman forces at Pribyslavitz and the scattered Cuman camps, we were mostly fighting Toth's bandit militia. The large majority of Sigismund forces would have been stationed out of our reach.

Not really relevant, they could have included a small group of sigismunds soldiers with a black doctor if they wanted. The point is they were not limited by the small settlements, because the token black character is not bound to the trade, but to the sigismund's army, which clearly had presence in the area where the original game takes place.