This LP is rigged from the start...Hey, we made it to Vegas!

[Azira]

 

[Silellak]

Yeah, I think this ending pretty much implies that choosing Yes Man may not have been that much of a wise choice because he might go rogue eventually.

It could just be that the writers wanted a reason the Courier himself wasn't the Unquestioning Lord of New Vegas, but yeah, it's hard to say.

Great LP!



Just a shame there was no Vault 11. Maybe as an epilogue?!

 

[ComradeCommissar]

Now you should do some "Tales From the Wasteland" or something, show some of the better spots you skipped in favor of keeping the LP story-centered. (V11 etc.)

 

[RK47]

That is an excellent idea. I think I'll do that tomorrow or something.

 

[Silellak]

 

[anus_pounder]

 

[Jaedar]

 

[taplonaplo]

 

[Digital Monocle]

Yeah, I think this ending pretty much implies that choosing Yes Man may not have been that much of a wise choice because he might go rogue eventually.

Reading that ending makes me feel as if Yes Man is one of the worst possible endings for the area. The NCR will definitely come back within a generation and annex it or even want to obliterate the area.The part that they will just run away is ludicrous, without the Legion to worry, they can just come in with PA troopers and those securitrons are a bunch of scrap heap. The wasteland seems worse for the most part other than Goodsprings.

And after the Courier passes away then what, another "House" comes along and takes over with an iron fist?

 

[racofer]

 

[Vaarna_Aarne]

What is it, ED? Additional logs? Go ahead, play it.

ED's speakers crackled to life and begin its playback. Suddenly, a hologram of a black man in a futuristic suit came into view. His face looks terribly scarred.

My name is Commander Shepard and humanity's last hope against an ancient evil called the Reapers. Help me finish what I started.

WTF is this shit?

 

[kazgar]

OK, first stop. Jack and Diane. These two are drug makers for the Khans. A pair of hippies basically.

Jack and Diane? *facepalm*

Top work, thanks for the LP.

 

[RK47]

 

[Silellak]

Holy shit, that's awesome.

 

[Brother None]

So much <3 for RK47

 

[.Sigurd]

Obsidian surely did his homework.

 

[Wyrmlord]

A little late to the party, but I am reading this LP for the first time, because I was curious about New Vegas.

Wow, this game has...no resemblance to Fallout whatsoever.

I mean, Fallout 2 alone killed the setting, but New Vegas went even more overboard and butchered the corpose, with this whole Western style setting and this nonsense about shades-wearing Roman legionnaires.

Why is it that for what was one decent universe with some decent potential, these Black Isle and Obsidian guys trashed it over and over and over by seeing how much dumb bullshit they can throw into it. I just don't get it.

 

[Monocause]

I mean, Fallout 2 alone killed the setting, but New Vegas went even more overboard and butchered the corpose, with this whole Western style setting and this nonsense about shades-wearing Roman legionnaires.

The idea behind Caesar's legion is quite neat and the costume design is actually awesome. IIRC both of these were already made in Van Buren. Trouble is Obsidian made the lore about CL too hard to find in-game. The whole faction is underdeveloped, leading to obvious WTF moments like "What the hell are the fucking Romans doing in my Mojave".

The idea of an educated man who united the tribes basing on the model of imperial Rome is really neat and fits Fallout canon nicely. That he needed his army to wear uniforms is obvious, however Caesar's people were simple folk lacking any sort of real industry; hence the uniforms are stitched together from salvaged sports equipment and other stuff that happened to come by, the design of it meant to loosely resemble stereotypical portrayals of Roman armor pieces.

It was a missed opportunity on multiple levels. Imagine if they incorporated shields into FNV and the Legionnaries could fight like that: stand in a rank, open fire/throw spears while taking cover behind shields, advance and when the enemy gets close go melee. This would be one of the ancient tactics Caesar used when uniting the tribes, but it would obviously fall short when facing NCR troops equipped with modern weaponry. Perhaps the Courier could even aid Caesar in devising a new military doctrine that would be decisive at the battle of Hoover Dam - make it a quest that the Courier can finish provided he, say, finds a book or listens to war stories from veterans and has high enough intelligence - and then picks proper conversation options, of course. I figure it could be one of the most interesting quests in the game and I also figure JE Sawyer (who, IIRC, was writing Caesar) would love writing it.

It wouldn't probably be too hard to script in the game and implementation of some basic ancient tactics (guns instead of pilum) would make CL beat the crap out of other factions in terms of pure atmosphere. As it is right now the faction isn't even "Roman" enough. I kept hoping that one of the DLCs would expand on CL, but nope. Shame.

I stopped dissing the Legion when I played more of the game and finally got access to bits of lore in-game. You can read this instead: http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Caesar%27s_Legion

 

[Wyrmlord]

Well, in Fallout we often hear of these people called the Vipers, but they were thankfully cut out of the final game. Because a group of bandits who "worship" a snake god is just too strange. The makers of the original game preferred to err on the side of giving up a possibly cool idea if it might backfire.

The way the newer entrants into the Fallout franchise think is the exact opposite. They would err on the side of getting a potentially cool idea that may never be properly executed. Our Jamaican tribal friend in Fallout 2 ended up merely a stupid caricature, because the quest to find his sister - a chance to make him more interesting - was cut.

This Roman thing is the same.

And why are there still super mutants and nightkin in the Fallout series at this point? Their story is over. The Master is dead.

 

[Drakron]

This Roman thing is the same.

No, its not ... listen to Caesar.

In fact that is the main problem with the Legion, Caesar makes a very good point and can even be convince you on taking his side but when that happens its already too late, players likely already been committed to another side and its also very easy to see the chinks on the Legion.

Add the lack of meaningful interaction with the Legion (unlike the NCR that showers you with quests) and its not strange people only picking the Legion for their "Evil" characters.

So you pretty much MISSED THE ENTIRE POINT and act like a Bethesdatard going "dur dur Obsidian Phail", nice job.

And why are there still super mutants and nightkin in the Fallout series at this point? Their story is over. The Master is dead.

And?
Should Super Mutants just vanish? we know they live a very long time and the occasional Super Mutant should not be odd, why should they vanish? one thing was Fallout 3 idiocy and another was New Vegas were outside Black Mountain and Jacobtown they were almost non-existent.

Whats next? we should not have Ghouls either because "their story is over"?

 

[Esquilax]

I agree with Monocause. I think that CL was actually a good faction (and potentially could have been a fucking great faction), but it was sadly underdeveloped. I think this is an important distinction - this isn't the same thing as say, the Super Mutants in FO3, which had no depth to begin with.

One of the things I actually liked about CL was just how "alien" they were, and I do think the concept is really cool. After reading the Fallout wiki link on the Legion, I really hoped that a lot of those ideas would be present in-game, or that maybe we'd see a Legion-controlled city in Arizona or something. Seeing a place full of Legion civilians would have done wonders for providing a more nuanced look at the faction. Getting a look at Legion religion and meeting priestesses (in fact, any woman who isn't a slave) would have been great.

While I think Monocause's idea about ancient tactics being used by the Legionnaries is fucking cool (i.e. veteran Legionaries advance with riot shields), I think that another thing that should have been expanded upon is the dichotomy between the NCR's "old-world" values and the Legion's desire to form a new, alien philosophy while using Ancient Rome as a template. I kept hoping for Caesar or somebody in the Legion to say something along the lines of "The NCR is doomed to fail because they use the pre-War government as a template; if those pre-War values were so great, then why did they lead to all of this? Technology and material wealth are not the answer to humanity's troubles - they will leave us unfulfilled, decadent, and repeating the same mistakes of the past. Enlightenment and purpose can only be achieved through blood and suffering." I think that was always the real purpose of CL's Ludditism.

I also hoped that the game would addressed the low technology of the Legion a bit more. They aren't averse to using high-tech weapons, but ideologically opposed to using medical technology - I really wanted that to be fleshed out more. I also thought the misogyny could get a little too over-the-top. Makes sense that a martial society might view women as inferior, but I would've preferred an approach more reminiscent of Ancient Sparta, where women are afforded respect because they give birth to warriors.

Another thing that I would have liked to see would be Legion characters that are a bit more sympathetic. With the NCR characters, it was nice to see the contrast in the ruthless, take-no-prisoners approach of people like General Oliver with more compassionate types such as Chief Hanlon or Colonel Hsu. You don't get that kind of alternate viewpoint with the Legion, sadly. I liked how at the end if you passed all the Speech checks against Lanius, he reveals that he considers Vulpes Inculta's tactics to be dishonorable - I wanted to see more of that! There isn't the intra-faction tension that you would expect.

We don't meet too many Legion NPC's, but the ones we do are all basically blood-crazed warriors ready to die for Caesar. Which is perfectly fine a lot of the time, as it makes sense that little boys indoctrinated to worship their leader as god and follow his orders without question would turn out like that. Regardless, I think it would still be nice to meet some Legionaries or even Centurions that may have some doubts about the Mojave campaign and aren't exactly enthusiastic about being ordered to crucify a bunch of innocent people to demoralize the enemy. It would be cool if you had a brilliant Centurion in the mould of an Erwin Rommel or Tadami Kuribayashi who is barely tolerated by his superiors because of his competence as a field commander.

 

[Drakron]

Err Caesar says something like that but Caesar is NOT a Luddite, his opposition to the NCR comes from the NCR society having the same values as the pre-Great War and its not suitable for the post-apocalyptic world since the Old World society failed, not that technology lead to failure.

Here is dialog:

I used imperial Rome as the model for my Legion precisely because it was so foreign, so alien.
I'd seen what had become of the NCR's attempts to emulate the culture of Pre-War America - the in-fighting, the corruption.
No, I'll destroy it because it's inevitable that it be destroyed. It's Hegelian Dialectics, not personal animosity.

Ignoring that is ignoring that Caesar shown them (the Blackfoot tribe) how to clean and maintain guns, he have nothing against technology per say.

House's machines, his technologies - what do they propose? The possibility of victory without sacrifice. No blood spilled, just... rivets.
You don't get it, do you? The weapons I wield are forged from blood, flesh, sinew, bone - mortal stuff. Fragile, even.
And yet my Legion obeys me, even unto death. Why? Because they live to serve the greater good, and they know of no alternatives.
That's not an idea to be put in circulation. If mankind's going to survive this moment in history, it needs warriors, not gadgets.

This is a deliberate choice to ensure the Legion loyalty, not something out of his disdain of technology (in fact you can convince him to not destroy the Brotherhood of Steel as the NCR will require a treaty with then and House will accept nothing but their destruction).

 

[Esquilax]

Err Caesar says something like that but Caesar is NOT a Luddite, his opposition to the NCR comes from the NCR society having the same values as the pre-Great War and its not suitable for the post-apocalyptic world since the Old World society failed, not that technology lead to failure.

I never said that Caesar believed that technology lead to Old World societies crumbling, but rather that non-military technology is shunned by the Legion because it robs humanity of its purpose. I meant that I wanted to see that angle explored more because it would put into question whether a lot of the NCRs efforts are really the right answer.

While the NCR uses their great wealth to fund research that improves the average life expectancy of their citizens, the Legion believes that their longer life comes at the cost of their humanity and purpose, and entices people to blindly try to extend their lives instead of truly living without fear of death hanging over them. This is why the Legion refuses to use medical sciences, except in rare cases. Because of their greatly different ideas of what true freedom is, the NCR and Legion will undoubtably quarrel with each other until one of them is defeated.

House's machines, his technologies - what do they propose? The possibility of victory without sacrifice. No blood spilled, just... rivets.
You don't get it, do you? The weapons I wield are forged from blood, flesh, sinew, bone - mortal stuff. Fragile, even.
And yet my Legion obeys me, even unto death. Why? Because they live to serve the greater good, and they know of no alternatives.
That's not an idea to be put in circulation. If mankind's going to survive this moment in history, it needs warriors, not gadgets.

This was a great quote, and exactly what I had in mind. I really wanted to see this sort of thing explored more - even though living standards in Legion territory are far lower than in NCR territory, because of the fact that many of their citizens were former tribals that were barely surviving before they were absorbed into the Legion, they consider their current situation a major step-up. I would have loved to see this explored more - like I said, a Legion settlement of some sort would have done wonders here.

This is a deliberate choice to ensure the Legion loyalty, not something out of his disdain of technology (in fact you can convince him to not destroy the Brotherhood of Steel as the NCR will require a treaty with then and House will accept nothing but their destruction).

Wait, you can convince Caesar not to kill off the BoS?

Once again, I never mentioned that the Legion hated technology per se, but that they hated the fact that it made people's lives too easy and that it lead to complacency and decadence.

 

[Drakron]

Wait, you can convince Caesar not to kill off the BoS?

Apparently yes, I was looking at Caesar dialog and there is a bit were you convince him to leave the BoS as they would attack the NCR during the Battle to secure Helios One (that is what happens).

I agree we dont see much of the Legion, I suppose in a way its not that much of a bad thing as we are spared of seeing what we hear about as the only "bad" act we see is Nipton and its hard to sympathize with Nipton (even the NCR calls them scum) but still when we can actually learn from the Legion is very much in the "choose your side" end run and because so far it been NCR and NCR for most part that have as much sympathetic characters as they have ... well, unsympathetic characters its hard to ditch the NCR, its abandoning Hanlon and Hsu that I think are good people and the Legion does not offer much, its not I am divided with Hanlon and Dead Sea because Dead Sea is a prick.

In a way it was a lost opportunity the DLC did not expanded the Legion, perhaps showing as bad the Legion was it was better that was there, instead the only Legion related things in the DLC are Ulysses that just deserted then, the White Legs that are so worthless even the Legion does not want then if they manage to succeeded and then Joshua Graham that pretty much regrets being stuck with then.

Hard to make a sale when Caesar is all there is to make it.

 

[Vibalist]

Great LP RK47! Seeing our main character wearing the enclave armor was epic as fuck. It just reminded me of Fallout 2 and everything I love about that game, even if New Vegas isn't that reminiscent of the old Fallout games in and of itself.

I also agree that there are a lot of stupid elements in this game, such as the ghouls in the REPCONN facility, Caesar and The Boomers (with their boring and linear fedex quests), but all in all I think New Vegas has some good writing and manages to outshine Fallout 3 in every aspect, if nothing else. I think I might give this game another shot after reading this LP, so thanks for that.

Keep up the good work.