Thursday is finally here.

[skuphundaku]

Well I gotta agree, combat is way too brutal while non violent approach is too easy. This needs some work and balancing surely.

I wouldn't call the non violent apphoach easy. You still have to metagame like mad if you want to get as many positive outcomes as possible. Take the Commercium quest line: if you can't convince the new Imperial Guard captain to join house Daratan without forcing him, then you'll get ambushed by his goons on the way to Mandoran, and if you're a non-combat character, you'll be dead. To avoid that, you have to either keep enough SP to invest in sneak or sign Cado's contract and let the new captain know that it's in his best interest to join house Daratan. If you sign Cado's contract, you may get killed by Linos' goons and you definitely lose reputation with the Commercium. I never managed to convince the house Daratan muppet to kill off the IG remnants, thus avoiding the goons-on-the-road-to-Mandoran problem because, even when I pass the skill check, he answers that I got too many people killed already. I'm quite curious about what are the requirements for making that happen.

The advantages of a non-combat approach is that you avoid the whims of the random number generator, but you'll reload just as much because of the metagaming.

 

[Malakal]

The problem is that at 50 persuasion I never failed a check in demo while at 50 dodge/block/weapon skill I sure as hell wasnt competent enough to challenge even two enemies in combat. And combat requires WAY more stat investment.

 

[circ]

I don't think that quest really suits an assassin, i'm not sure every quest should be completable with any skillset.

Well yeah, except my skillset was pretty much a clone of a mercs skillset. Only difference was I went with dodge instead of block and had lightweight armor, well medium, but it actually gave me better DR and better dodge than the light armors. Now something's fucked up with light armor, and/or dodge. Well, mos def light armor.

 

[skuphundaku]

The problem is that at 50 persuasion I never failed a check in demo while at 50 dodge/block/weapon skill I sure as hell wasnt competent enough to challenge even two enemies in combat. And combat requires WAY more stat investment.

You can fail persuasion checks in the demo with 50 persuasion, I can guarantee you that. You probably failed other hidden checks so you were never presented with such high-level persuasion checks. On top of that, unless you go the extreme non-combat build (4/4/4/8/10/10 drifter/grifter/loremaster) you'll manage to get 2, maybe 3, skills to 50 without having to sacrifice everything else, and that is not enough to get the best outcomes out of everything you come across.

 

[Vault Dweller]

The problem is that at 50 persuasion I never failed a check in demo while at 50 dodge/block/weapon skill I sure as hell wasnt competent enough to challenge even two enemies in combat. And combat requires WAY more stat investment.

Combat is the hardest path through the game. Killing people left and right IS harder than bullshitting them.

 

[Johannes]

Well I gotta agree, combat is way too brutal while non violent approach is too easy. This needs some work and balancing surely.

I wouldn't call the non violent apphoach easy. You still have to metagame like mad if you want to get as many positive outcomes as possible.

Meat of the game in AoD is the metagame.

 

[Vault Dweller]

I never managed to convince the house Daratan muppet to kill off the IG remnants, thus avoiding the goons-on-the-road-to-Mandoran problem because, even when I pass the skill check, he answers that I got too many people killed already. I'm quite curious about what are the requirements for making that happen.

There are 3 checks there, 2 hidden. Streetwise, Etiquette, Persuasion, if I recall correctly.

 

[skuphundaku]

I never managed to convince the house Daratan muppet to kill off the IG remnants, thus avoiding the goons-on-the-road-to-Mandoran problem because, even when I pass the skill check, he answers that I got too many people killed already. I'm quite curious about what are the requirements for making that happen.

There are 3 checks there, 2 hidden. Streetwise, Etiquette, Persuasion, if I recall correctly.

The thing is that I'm passing the visible checks because the responses have the (success) tag: I pass the [etiquette] one and I get the (success) response, then I pass the [persuasion][streetwise] one and I get the (success) response. However, at this point, the next thing he says is along the lines of "you've already killed more people with your words than..." and I fail to make him take out the IG remnant. How does the hidden vs. visible checks system work? How do you differentiate between them? Why have two types of checks?

 

[Vault Dweller]

Some lines are always shown but have a success/partial success/failure requirements. Some lines have 'on appear' checks and won't show until you meet the requirement (stat/skill values, items, past decisions, etc). These lines can also have success/failure checks in addition to 'on appear'.

In some cases we hide the lines to avoid meta-gaming. If you don't know it's there, it wouldn't drive you nuts and you'll think that maybe there are no other options. In some cases we hide to avoid spoilers, i.e. if your character can figure something out, it should remain hidden from the player until his character does.

 

[MetalCraze]

Well I gotta agree, combat is way too brutal while non violent approach is too easy. This needs some work and balancing surely.

Here is my design document to make it work:

First VD has to get his head out of his ass.

Then he should start to listen to all testers not do
"Hey VD I selected these stats and it isn't balanced" - "lololo u r an idiot u will no test my game anymore"
"Hey VD and I selected these stats and I completed this one combat oh and your cock also has an exquisite taste" - "good boy, you will be my tester now"
(this is how you make sure your game is reported as perfect in tester reports btw)

And finally he should stop making the game he would play with one viable way to enjoy it and make the good game. VD should stop being a Creative Strategist from Infinity Ward.

 

[Grunker]

When will you make your game Skyway? I so want to play it

 

[Pope Amole II]

you'll manage to get 2, maybe 3, skills to 50 without having to sacrifice everything else, and that is not enough to get the best outcomes out of everything you come across.

Lolwhut? That is more than enough - my extreme non-combat trader had 60 persuasion, 50 streetwise, etiquette and trading by the end of demo and that was enough to do pretty much anything that there was in main storyline in the best way possible, gaining 3 traits in the end. Well, perhaps some more points in disguise and lore would've been nice, but you can't have it all here, too few quests, too few skill points. The only thing that I haven't tried was uniting Antidas with that imperial legion guy, but that was simply because I didn't knew that that option existed.

For a non-combat character, game is piss easy and dumb - at least in the adventure games of yore I was required to solve some puzzles or at least to do some pixel hunting, when here I must do what? Reload and redirect skill points correctly? Fuck yeah.

 

[Esquilax]

I like the "unbalanced" nature of the non-violent path compared to combat, it really adds to the atmosphere and is unique among RPG's? Can't say I remember a game where investing heavily in being a diplomat meant that you were better off than being a badass warrior who is dumb as shit. That is absolutely great and doesn't need any sort of "balancing"

That's perfectly fine, but what needs to be changed is that the static nature of the skill checks results in an over-reliance on reloads and meta-gaming.

 

[Kaol]

When i killed someone neutral i got repeatedly interrupted by guards saying to not kill people. I assume this is a bug?

 

[Excidium]

When i killed someone neutral i got repeatedly interrupted by guards saying to not kill people. I assume this is a bug?

 

[Marsal]

When i killed someone neutral i got repeatedly interrupted by guards saying to not kill people. I assume this is a bug?

He means that you go into a loop where the guards warn you not to do it again and after the encounter ends and you walk a couple of steps or fast travel, it happens again. It is a bug.

 

[Excidium]

I know, but in other games it would be the world reacting to your choices. 10/10 GOTY

 

[Kaol]

I found out you can just kill the imperial guards in the compound and only the one you are attacking will fight back. Then theres the bug with the town guards basically preventing you from doing anything. Its not something you would normally do anyway.

 

[Tigranes]

They've said that normal townspeople, etc. have not yet been tagged with proper 'factions' so that they don't respond to their compatriots keeling over in a pool of blood, and that it is being done, so in the full game you won't see that happening.

 

[Johannes]

It's like a game about creating characters more than about playing them.

 

[skuphundaku]

It's like a game about creating characters more than about playing them.

I think this is the most succinct way of describing this game's problems.

 

[Shiki]

Here is my design document to make it work:

First VD has to get his head out of his ass.

The game cannot be fixed. All the time spent on the balance didn't take into account any sort of gameplay whatsoever outside of the combat itself. I still can't believe I thought AoD could be a good thing before delving into this retarded POS that is a 1:1 copy of the concept of Visual Novels. There is no gameplay element outside of combat, this is the first rpg I've played where sneaking is a purely dialogue-only option and the game has so many teleport and bullcrap, little meat in the dialogue, I couldn't get myself to care. It felt like playing a MMORPG, except that they replaced the RPG mechanics with VN mechanics, and you're all alone instead of playing with friends.
For a game that relies so much on dialogue as a gameplay element, and discourages you from combat, it's beyond boring. The writing is shit, I didn't care for any of the NPC, it's NO pst. The factions are a bore. There is a definite lack of control over your character (teleport much ?), over reliance on RNG and shitty pacing. I can't see anything that would pull me back to the game.
My initial impressions have been utterly annihilated. What I thought could be a decent game turned out to be worse than shit.
Not to mention that there isn't a bit of a redeeming factor. The engine is crap and, for such simple graphics, not fast enough on a card like my 5770. We aren't talking about Crysis here. Fuck.

 

[Infinitron]

It felt like playing a MMORPG, except that they replaced the RPG mechanics with VN mechanics, and you're all alone instead of playing with friends.

So...nothing like an MMORPG?

 

[FUDU]

Here is my design document to make it work:

First VD has to get his head out of his ass.

The game cannot be fixed. All the time spent on the balance didn't take into account any sort of gameplay whatsoever outside of the combat itself. I still can't believe I thought AoD could be a good thing before delving into this retarded POS that is a 1:1 copy of the concept of Visual Novels. There is no gameplay element outside of combat, this is the first rpg I've played where sneaking is a purely dialogue-only option and the game has so many teleport and bullcrap, little meat in the dialogue, I couldn't get myself to care. It felt like playing a MMORPG, except that they replaced the RPG mechanics with VN mechanics, and you're all alone instead of playing with friends.
For a game that relies so much on dialogue as a gameplay element, and discourages you from combat, it's beyond boring. The writing is shit, I didn't care for any of the NPC, it's NO pst. The factions are a bore. There is a definite lack of control over your character (teleport much ?), over reliance on RNG and shitty pacing. I can't see anything that would pull me back to the game.
My initial impressions have been utterly annihilated. What I thought could be a decent game turned out to be worse than shit.
Not to mention that there isn't a bit of a redeeming factor. The engine is crap and, for such simple graphics, not fast enough on a card like my 5770. We aren't talking about Crysis here. Fuck.

God, you're petty uppity, even for a French guy.

Do you have repressed anger at mudslims?

 

[Malakal]

His complaints are somewhat valid, take out all the combat from crpgs and what do you have left? Text mostly, sometimes exploring but there is no exploring to do in AoD. And combat is deadly and to be avoided. Especially with loading times.

Perhaps some changes are in order or maybe later combat gets less deadly and your character can truly shine as a, well maybe not hero, but at least a competent warrior.

VD should tell us how the game develops, is combat as lethal later on or are enemies not getting progressively harder - other than select individuals that is, but a city guard everywhere should be nearly the same.