Thursday is finally here.

[Vault Dweller]

The goal is the temple. The map leads you to Antidas who starts the main quest.

See, that's the thing. The Commercium was pushing me hard regarding the takeover of Teron, and it was very easy to get caught up in such conflicts (seemed even easier when playing a "free" character like a Drifter or Mercenary, as everyone tries to use you for their own ends). Until I played with other characters and realized the common thread between them all, the importance of the temple wasn't quite so clear. I guess that's just how things go when you're part of a faction.

We didn't want to push the main quest on you. The game is non-linear and you can finish it without finishing the main quest. The factions don't care about the temple and will push their agenda, of course. The Noble Houses are interested in the temple (for different reasons), so even if you leave Teron without talking to Antidas or if you end up killing Antidas, you'll still be able to start/continue the main quest.

 

[Fryjar]

Right. Sorry. We increased the starting gold two builds ago and I forgot to add a 'pay' option there. Just go back and buy it. We'll fix it shortly.

Relax man, it's just a minor bug, and I'm havin A LOT of fun with the game. I always forget to save, so everytime I die I create a new character and try doing things differently, it's a very complex city, and the replay value is fantastic man, good job.

I wanted to echo that, despite my criticism, I'm having a blast.

 

[Phelot]

Sure. I'm not saying it's perfect. I'm saying it works. It is jarring at first, but then again, you're playing a guy with a history (if you don't want to, play the drifter). It makes sense that your character knows where to go, even if the player doesn't. After the vignette ends, you can familiarize yourself with the layout all you want.

I definitely like this about the game. Can only really be done if there aren't VO's and the player doesn't mind reading some descriptions, but it definitely makes more sense rather than relying on stupid amnesia to explain everything or having to listen to every NPC saying "How do you not know about this?!" to learn the game's basic lore. A short description explaining a bit about who this NPC is that your character knows is great.

 

[Carrion]

The start wasn't too promising as the screen went black after I tried to change the resolution. A quick Alt + Tab our of the game solved that problem, but the game froze on the first loading screen (nice art, by the way). I didn't hear any music on the main menu screen either. Sigh, reboot...

On the second attempt the game worked the way it's supposed to. I created an assassin and put most of my skill points in persuasion and streetwise and a few points in critical strike and dodge. I've played a couple of hours or so with that character and have been glad to notice that all of those skills have proved useful more than once (except for dodge, since I haven't entered the actual combat mode yet). There have been some really nice and creative uses for skill checks even though I've only completed a handful of quests so far. Some nice C&C as well, I knew I shouldn't have been that merciful with that asshole loremaster I was hired to kill. The game looks and sounds good, no real complaints there. So far the demo has been just as good as I expected.

Most of my complaints have been already discussed in this thread, but I'll mention them nonetheless. The forced teleporting is a bit disorienting and some kind of a quest compass would be welcome because the camera seems to live a life of its own at times. I'd like it if you could adjust the camera height and angle some more because now you can only see a pretty limited area in front of you. Some additional fluff dialogue choices here and there wouldn't hurt because occasionally my character seems to be forced to say things I wouldn't like her to say. Like Johannes said, I don't really like the fact that your options are often laid out before you and the game doesn't really give you the opportunity to think outside the box.

The mining outpost quest is one example of that. The game suggested using a disguise, so I first entered the outpost wearing loremaster's robes and a turban and apparently failed my disguise check since the guard mocked my character's terrible fake accent and told me to fuck off. Fair enough, I knew I should've put more points in Disguise. I came back and tried the other dialogue option and succeeded a little better but later failed a lore check when checking out the machinery so that didn't work out either. Then I tried sneaking in but was immediately spotted. It was quite strange that I was still able to convince them that I was a loremaster despite wearing my assassin's armor and a hood (not to mention that the guards still gave me the benefit of a doubt despite the fact that it was the third time my character used the "I'm a loremaster, really" excuse to get in). I still couldn't get past the lore check at the machinery, so that was strike three. At that point I had exhausted all of my visible options to complete the quest, and since the game went into the text adventure mode immediately when I entered the outpost area, I couldn't really come up with a solution of my own either. Text adventures are fun, but discovering creative ways to do stuff might be even more fun. Not having enough skill to complete a quest is fine too, but at least give me the option to die trying.

I guess all of my biggest complaints come down to the fact that I don't like it when the game takes control away from the player. Still, AoD's approach definitely feels fresh and it's really a joy to play. Now excuse me while I go play it some more.

 

[Johannes]

To me, the issue with it is that you always know what your options are in a certain point. You don't go around wondering if there's an alternative solution you haven't thought about, because you know there's no point when the things your PC can do in a given situation are so plainly pointed to you.

Pointed out by your stats/skills, faction, and past deeds/conversations. In other words, the options you see at any given times aren't all options available.

Yes of course, I guess I should've emphasised "your current PC" instead of just "your PC".
The emphasis on stats and skills is quite related too - you only have a relatively narrow field of options to even try, and they're all brought to right under your nose. So the most important gameplay actually occurs at the char creation screen, outside that you just follow the railroad you've created for yourself to a big extent, even if there's occasionally quite many junctions in that railroad. Would be nice to have more dynamic gameplay outside the char creation, skill-based puzzles you can't solve or deem unsolvable by exhausting the whole text adventure tree of a quest. Kinda what Carrion said about looking for creative solutions.

Hmm, maybe if you just had more skillpoints at your use, there'd be more freedom in the choices you can pick and consequently I might have a better time.

 

[felipepepe]

Hmm, maybe if you just had more skillpoints at your use, there'd be more freedom in the choices you can pick and consequently I might have a better time.

Further in the game you'll probably be able to spread out a little more, but still, not becoming a AWESHUM hero that can do everything is a great pro of the game, not a con.

This is not Skyrim, you can't see everything as complete every faction on one playthorugh, that's why it's such a replayable game.

 

[IronicNeurotic]

Well there's always one outcome possible: with no other option left to you, you bravely (or stupidly, depending on who you're asking about this hero's tale) charge and get quickly taken down by an arrow to the knee. The lord of evil bursts out into maniacal laughter upon receiving word from your untimely demise.
The End.

Pretty much. No character should be able to handle everything in an RPG, especially in an RPG where replayability is a feature.

Thats not what I'm saying.

I specifically mean a way to end the quest. It doesn't have to be fulfilling the quest objective at all but for example faking it in some way or downright just sayin' "Yeah, dude. Can't do it" and some small text giving closure to it.

This way it seems not like replayabilty just some arbitary wall thats put between you and calling the quest done. Theres no Choice or Consequence involved apart from "Welp' Can't do it" and it doesn't even make sense "Guess the NPC's didn't actually care about that quest and nothing ever happened regarding it."


That said, maybe you actually have something like that, as said before haven't played it yet.

 

[Awor Szurkrarz]

Has anyone got it to run under Wine?

 

[CappenVarra]

Played a bit with a Thief, so far it's quite interesting and (dare I say) refreshing. A few quick things I feel justified in nitpicking about:
- Perhaps it's just a habit of mine, but I keep trying to exit the Map screen by pressing Escape. Since Escape actually works on other screens, implementing this would be good.
- There doesn't seem to be an in-game help page with a list of keyboard shortcuts? Since the beta comes without a manual, this looks a bit sloppy (have to google to find how to play). Anybody have a link to a full list of keyboard shortcuts btw?
- I'll skip general camera remarks (since everybody seems to have a personal preference and it's impossible to make everybody happy in 3D); however, since the game seems to insist on auto-rotating the camera on conversations etc., I'm often left wondering "now which direction am I facing in again?". I can understand how a minimap (or even showing the character on the Map screen) might not be your cup of tea, but even a simple arrow pointing North would make navigation much friendlier. And I'm sure there's a "center camera on character" button somewhere, but damned if I can find it.

And I love it how my Thief proceeded to fail just about all checks in the first quest - now that's a proper Level 1 feeling :D

 

[sgc_meltdown]

http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2012/03/22/oh-look-the-age-of-decadence-public-beta/#comment-944131

Tried a mercenary, died during the first fight.
Tried an assassin, died during the first fight.
Tried a praetor, and guess what? Yes, died during the first fight.

Sorry, uninstalled.

 

[Vault Dweller]

Good fucking riddance.

 

[commie]

Oh I see there will be more filler NPC's with schedules. Just after I was whining about this very thing :tears of gratitude:....Thanks VD for listening.

 

[Konjad]

Good fucking riddance.

I think you should make your game more accessible and add health potions, because right now your game doesn't have enough immersion and AWESOME.

 

[Vault Dweller]

Now, this here is a true patriot:

"I tried a loremaster and died seven times in a row within the first three minutes, then told my wife "I think this is the greatest game I've played in a long time." It's actually a challenge rather than something I can semi pay attention to while doing other stuff because it's all a breeze."

 

[sgc_meltdown]

health potions

Health potions are so contrived and artificial.

Add regenerating health instead.

 

[Angelo85]

Healing salves will be introduced from what I understand through the Alchemy skills. Enter the decline. But they can't be used during combat (that info is from an Interview way back, could have changed in the meantime).

 

[sea]

A few more things:

• Combat is hard, but early on, in the wrong sorts of ways. Being forced to reroll a character of a given background 5 times just to pass the opening sequence is not particularly fun. There is difficult and then there is punishing - there's a good reason why most games ease into their challenge. It's nothing that you can't learn after a while but to be honest, I don't think having prior knowledge of the golden ratio of skill distribution should be necessary just to not die horribly to starving beggars. Again, don't take this as a "it's too hard" complaint, it's more the trial and error nature of even the basics that gets annoying. There needs to be positive and negative reinforcement beyond just "you died, sucker, time to reroll."
• After reloading the game about 3-5 times, it almost always crashes during the load screen (usually when it's displaying the "C:\aod\aod.exe" message). This is very frustrating when combined with all the ways you can fail. Not sure if it's just me but it's definitely quite constant - I've probably had 20 or 30 crashes in the span of about 4 hours of gameplay so far.
• Another bug - quickloading during dialogue (using F9) causes objects in the world to be non-interactive, and requires a game restart to fix. Not sure if quickloading during dialogue is intentional, but I definitely appreciate the feature if it's at all possible.
• Needs autosave points. I like manual saves, of course, but many situations don't let you save when you really would like to, forcing you to replay the same sections over and over. The first time through I forgot to save and lost a half-hour of progress. Again, nothing terrible but it's something to consider. You could even have it, say, automatically autosave every time a quest is complete, or the journal is updated.
• There are minor typos here and there, and sometimes enemy names etc. aren't capitalized. Hard to point out everything but it might be a good idea to get someone to proof-read and spell-check everything before final release.
• I just realized that the font is the same one used by Frayed Knights. Is this a Torque Engine default thing, or coincidence? Just curious.

I do want to stress that the game is still a hell of a lot of fun. I'm being critical but only because there's stuff that I'd do differently... and because I'm a chronic nit-picker. Don't mistake critique for whiny "this game sucks!" because that's definitely not the case. Going through as my third character right now, still trying to learn the ropes and still having a great time.

 

[Vault Dweller]

Healing salves are the same as going to a healer, but they are very handy when you explore ruins and toxic areas. You can't use them in combat.

 

[I_am_Ian]

Valanthyr:

Tried a mercenary, died in the first fight.
Tried an assassin, died in the first fight.
Tried a praetor, and guess what? Yes, died during the first fight.

Sorry, uninstalled.

Vince:

Good fucking riddance

Vince, you have to put this as a blurb on the back of the game box when it comes out.

 

[Vault Dweller]

Combat is hard, but early on, in the wrong sorts of ways. Being forced to reroll a character of a given background 5 times just to pass the opening sequence is not particularly fun. There is difficult and then there is punishing - there's a good reason why most games ease into their challenge.

Let's call it a personal preference. I believe that easy combat doesn't teach you to fight and if you have to be raped a few times, it's best to do it early, when you don't lose much by rerolling.

I'm not saying that you're wrong, of course. Just explaining why it was designed this way.

After reloading the game about 3-5 times, it almost always crashes during the load screen (usually when it's displaying the "C:\aod\aod.exe" message). This is very frustrating when combined with all the ways you can fail. Not sure if it's just me but it's definitely quite constant - I've probably had 20 or 30 crashes in the span of about 4 hours of gameplay so far.

It didn't crash that much during testing (i.e. on the testers' machines). It never crashes on mine, for example.

Another bug - quickloading during dialogue (using F9) causes objects in the world to be non-interactive, and requires a game restart to fix. Not sure if quickloading during dialogue is intentional, but I definitely appreciate the feature if it's at all possible.

Will be disabled.

I do want to stress that the game is still a hell of a lot of fun. I'm being critical but only because there's stuff that I'd do differently... and because I'm a chronic nit-picker. Don't mistake critique for whiny "this game sucks!" because that's definitely not the case. Going through as my third character right now, still trying to learn the ropes.

I can handle criticism, so fire away. I'd like to read your detailed impressions when you're done playing, if you don't mind.

 

[hiver]

And I'm sure there's a "center camera on character" button somewhere, but damned if I can find it.

The big button on the far right of the UI. The top one.


-edit-
Also could someone explain to unwashed masses of RPS that whats going on here is not negativity but constructive critique? And that unlike the usual setup these er... contributions will be / are considered seriously?

Let's call it a personal preference. I believe that easy combat doesn't teach you to fight and if you have to be raped a few times, it's best to do it early, when you don't lose much by rerolling.

I'm not saying that you're wrong, of course. Just explaining why it was designed this way.

I agree with sea on this, as i wrote in that other thread for suggestions in AoD section of the forums.

It can be used for learning the hard ways of the world if its designed in that way. The very first few fights should be winnable and enemies should use at least one of the "special attacks" to show the players there is additional choices there.
- An NPC can also mention this shortly. Use the blacksmith since he already explains a bit about the weapons. Its enough if he just mentions a certain weapon would do better for aiming hands or legs or something like that.

Then use the rest of encounters as deadly as they are now - with more trained fighters like Guards and assassins using even more special attacks.

You dont loose anything by doing it like this.

 

[sea]

Let's call it a personal preference. I believe that easy combat doesn't teach you to fight and if you have to be raped a few times, it's best to do it early, when you don't lose much by rerolling.

Fair enough. I just think a few fights ramping up in difficulty more gradually would help. I do think this is done well for the non-combat side of things, for the record - increasingly complex nested checks etc.

It didn't crash that much during testing (i.e. on the testers' machines). It never crashes on mine, for example.

Could be Fraps, or even alt+tabbing. I'm taking screenshots so that could be part of it.

I can handle criticism, so fire away. I'd like to read your detailed impressions when you're done playing, if you don't mind.

Doing a preview for GameBanshee within the next few days (once I've played through for all the backgrounds), so chances are you'll see it!

The big button on the far right of the UI. The top one.

Z is the hotkey. Quite convenient, although an auto-follow option for the camera would be great.

 

[sgc_meltdown]

Vince, you have to put this as a blurb on the back of the game box when it comes out.

I'm thinking of the release trailer right now. Foreboding ambient music. A menacing darkness. Thunder crackles in the distance, and the sentences fade in one by one as the music reaches its emotive peak:

"Tried a mercenary, died in the first fight.

Tried an assassin, died in the first fight.

Tried a praetor, and guess what?

Yes, died during the first fight."

The ebbing music hangs; mournful, tense. A beat of utter silence, and then BAM!

GOOD FUCKING RIDDANCE

BITCHING HEAVY METAL MUSIC AND CUT TOGETHER SHOTS OF INTENSE ROLEPLAYING OPTIONS AND WALLS OF TEXT AND THE LOGO BURNS THROUGH THE LAST SCENE OF THE FOOTAGE MERCILESSLY

Over it, a deep, sonorous voice speaks, each syllable fraught with the weight of destiny.

"Age...of Decadence."
(with the text "Now out at www.irontowerstudio.com")

The voice...
The voice belongs to Skyway.

 

[Cowboy Moment]

I'm sort of done with my first playthrough. "Sort of", because I think I've ran into a weird bug. I rolled a drifter with a focus on streetwise/persuade, some combat skills, and a bunch of points thrown into disguise (which I ended up not needing, resolved the mining outpost quest by convincing raiders to attack it). I worked for the Commercium, discovered Carrinas' plot, tried to arrange for his assassination, was sent to Antidas (which allowed me to show him the map and get the followup quest), got into the Barracks by posing as a Merchant, got Carrinas' signature by failing a trader check and passing a persuade one, forged the letter, and convinced Antidas it was real. At this point, he sends me back to Linos, demanding 50k jewgold. When I inform Linos of this, the game instantly exits the conversation, I get 10 SP, and the camera controls become screwed up - although it goes back to normal when I click on Linos. The quest disappears from my journal, but I can still talk to Linos about the proof (only being allowed to say that I don't have it), and Carrinas is still alive. Is that really how it's supposed to be, or is there a trigger not firing somewhere?

My general impression is very good. The game didn't crash at all, and ran smoothly at max settings on a PC from 2007. Not going to repeat the font complaints, since you're on it already. Contrary to a lot of Codexers, I enjoyed the writing a lot. It has a refreshing brevity to it, even the stylized lore accounts avoid the overwrought purple prose most games use in similar contexts. It also manages to be succinct without descending into Bethesda-esque "Fight the good fight with your voice" simplicity. I think the reason it works so well for me, is that it fits the setting so well, and I'm a major immersionfag with a huge boner for thematic consistency in games. Which I honestly think is AoD's biggest strength, it's very cohesive, everything makes sense in context, the unforgiving combat included.

Well, except for the teleporting, but this requires a proper explanation, so I'll leave it for a different post. Needless to say, my inner immersionfag feels vindicated by all the complaints about this. Take that, mondblut.

 

[Ermm]

Vince, you have to put this as a blurb on the back of the game box when it comes out.

I'm thinking of the release trailer right now. Foreboding ambient music. A menacing darkness. Thunder crackles in the distance, and the sentences fade in one by one as the music reaches its emotive peak:

"Tried a mercenary, died in the first fight.

Tried an assassin, died in the first fight.

Tried a praetor, and guess what?

Yes, died during the first fight."

The ebbing music hangs; mournful, tense. A beat of utter silence, and then BAM!

GOOD FUCKING RIDDANCE

BITCHING HEAVY METAL MUSIC AND CUT TOGETHER SHOTS OF INTENSE ROLEPLAYING OPTIONS AND WALLS OF TEXT AND THE LOGO BURNS THROUGH THE LAST SCENE OF THE FOOTAGE MERCILESSLY

Over it, a deep, sonorous voice speaks, each syllable fraught with the weight of destiny.

"Age...of Decadence."
(with the text "Now out at www.irontowerstudio.com")

The voice...
The voice belongs to Skyway.

Actually, someone should really make a fake trailer out of this.

 

[Infinitron]

sgc_meltdown Now imagining GOOD FUCKING RIDDANCE spoken in a Ukrainian accent.