Titan Quest producer rants on PC market.

[vrok]

DICE only became famous because it developed BF1942 by acquiring the company that had previously made a similar (and more fun, in my opinion) game, Codename: Eagle.

Your sentence doesn't make sense. DICE became famous because BF1942 was a smash hit war FPS game and represented the next big step in MP FPS gameplay. Yes, it was based on the unrealized potential of Codename Eagle and its engine, but Codename Eagle didn't provide the Conquest game mode, 64 player MP, soldier kits, maps inspired by actual WW2 battles and many other things put together that made BF1942 the arcade war game it is. Your sentence makes it sound like DICE bought the studio, laid off all the talent, stole their work and released a slightly improved clone.

http://www.gamespot.com/pc/action/battl ... lt;title;0

GameSpot: How long has this game been in development? Did you start work immediately after Codename Eagle?

Lars Gustavsson: The thoughts of creating the ultimate multiplayer gaming experience have been with us for a long time, even before we made Codename Eagle. After completing the Codename Eagle project, we felt that, however good Codename Eagle was, it still wasn't the ultimate experience. Therefore, while the rest of Refraction put the last touches on Codename Eagle, our designers sat down to sketch the outlines of a new game. Shortly thereafter, the rest of the team joined in and the creation of the Refractor 2 engine and Battlefield 1942 had begun. This was around Christmas 1999. Now Refraction is merged with DICE and the team is working hard to finish the game.

Refraction Games was still a Swedish studio anyway, so there! And yes, I agree, Codename Eagle was hilarious but I tend to agree with Lars more, it still wasn't the ultimate experience, just a goofy one. Perhaps Battlefield: Heroes is an effort to get the best out of both worlds.

 

[Joe Krow]

I wonder if having a button on consoles that allowed people to have any game they want sent to them for free would effect sales? I doubt it.

I wonder if releasing the full game as a demo would be a good idea? If people liked it they would still buy it because people are generally virtuous. Personal responsibility and anonymity, A perfect match! Why do you assume this would effect sales?

You guys should go teach in business school. Your insights into markets and supply & demand would be invaluable.

 

[Futile Rhetoric]

I wonder if having a button on consoles that allowed people to have any game they want sent to them for free would effect sales? I doubt it.

I wonder if releasing the full game as a demo would be a good idea? If people liked it they would still buy it because people are generally virtuous. Personal responsibility and anonymity, A perfect match! Why do you assume this would effect sales?

You guys should go teach in business school. Your insights into markets and supply & demand would be invaluable.

Radiohead would like to have a word with you.

 

[Disconnected]

Disconnected is a great example.

Yes, it is so much easier to dismiss what I said if you can just vilify me a bit.

Piracy is always going to be out there, but there's no point focusing on it. People who aren't going to buy your game never are.

So why do you focus on them? Despite your own advise, your entire post is focused on piracy and treats it as a problem.

That's why places like Korea have an immense market for MMOs and online games but never in a million years will they know the joy of a single player RPG that's made in their native tongue.

Don't muddle the issues. The business model for MMOs works because it depends upon demand, and demand is present.

The business model for SP games likewise depends upon demand, but no demand exists.

Fortunately in the civilized world, where some people realize that immediately gratifying every petty desire can be ultimately counterproductive, there are people willing and able to pay for games if you can get a game they like made and get it into their awareness somehow and make it possible for them to buy it.

So, instead of adapting your business model to suit the actual market, you've resigned only exploiting 10% of the market & calling the rest twats...

So I think the real question people should have, is why does it take 300k sales for a company to barely squeek by?

That's not even a relevant question, unless you accept it as fact that you cannot profit from more than 10% of your customers.

Even if you somehow magically double the sales of all games on the shelf, it still won't compare to the profitability of consoles or cut the stranglehold publishers have on creativity.

Indeed, if you can't profit from more than 20% of your costumers, you're in the wrong line of work.

Ironically, the publishers are the ones with the outmoded business model. That they have a stranglehold on creativity is only a minor concern when they keep you from feeding your family.

You can't fight the market forces. PC games are just never going to be super sellers like consoles.

Indeed, they're much, much better. There's no way in hell a console market based on scarcity can ever compare to a PC market based on post-scarcity. As soon as distributors realize that revenue from game sales is the least profitable thing they can possibly do, the only console owners will be the 10% who currently buy PC games.

What I don't understand, is why you lot insist on operating in this nonsensical manner. You have a massive market. Your penetration of that market is unrivalled in any other market. Yet out of the 100% theoretically available revenue, you can't even come close to half with your current business model.

Even if we accept as fact that yours truly and 90% of everyone else are 110% finely distilled asshole, it does not change the fact that you as an industry are doing the worst fucking job in the history of capitalism.

It's very interesting to see Crytec brought up in this thread. It's also very interesting that instead of looking at their relationship with nVidia, the only thing you lot took note of, is that making the game wasn't as expensive as it could have been.

Now if nVidia paid 4 mill just to get their logo in the intro & that price was after they'd poured 5500 manhours into the creation of the game, imagine what Blockbuster or whatever, would have to pay to get a spashscreen add between loading levels. Or Pepsi for the odd vending machine. Or Britney Spears for having her latest hit single played in the background on a radio.

I say again, the problem isn't that games can't make you filthy fucking rich. The problem is that you really fucking hate money and gamers with a passion. Either that or you're just plain dumb.

 

[Naked Ninja]

Oh come on. You've never heard of someone downloading some music, deciding they like it and buying a legit copy? Someone deciding to buy a CD after listening to a song they taped off the radio? Someone downloading a TV show, or watching it on free-to-air TV and then buying DVDs (or other merchandise) of it? Or the gaming equivalent? Never heard of anyone swapping mix tapes, loaning DVDs/games/books/etc, and giving that person reason to buy a copy of their own?

You've got to be kidding? You aren't are, you? You actually believe that compensates for the sheer loss due to piracy. Of course, I've heard of instances. I also know of people at work with shared drives filled with every tv show and movie you can think of. I guess everyone who pulls off those drives goes home and watches them on TV or buys the DVD huh, to compensate for the vast amount lost from advertising and dvd sales? You cannot be that bad at maths.

My friends and myself engage in "soft" piracy all the time. We copy or loan anything from literature to games, and most of the time it's to share an awareness of something. "Hey, have you listened to/watched/read/played <x>? It's awesome, check it out!" If someone agrees it's awesome, there's usually a purchase made. We're all mid-twenties professionals with little else to spend our cash on, so why the fuck not?

Now like I say, I don't delude myself into believing this is in any way typical, but I'm constantly exposed to cases where piracy creates an awareness and breeds familiarity that leads to purchase(s) that wouldn't have occurred otherwise. I have no way of judging how significant the effect of "awareness through piracy" is, but you can't possibly dismiss it completely.

Yes, yes I can. It's become clear you aren't calculating the maths properly. Or perhaps you're all kumbaya singing hippies. I'm curious, so none of your friends play or watch something for a bit then decide it isn't quite worth spending cash on right now...of course not. You all either like it or dismiss it. The fact that you have milked the free content isn't a factor in anyones decision, ever.

Good thing they weren't stupid enough to rely on 12 year olds spending their lunch money as a source of income.

Ah well then, you were 12. My arguments are negated, I feel so silly.

Pirates? On my internet? The one that has about a billion messageboards that censor and/or ban any and all discussion of piracy, yet exist around the discussion of games?

Wow, I must be using the wrong internet then, for me info on any and all pirated material is a google search away. I like your more moral, altruistic internet, where can I download it from? Wait, never mind, I'll search for the torrent. :D

I'm not disparaging the 70% spike in sales, because that's impressive, but there's no context for that figure. Maybe there was a 70% spike the day they updated their DRM, and a steady depreciation over the next year.

Way to quibble there chief. Yes, I'm sure the guy wrote that article chose to carefully obfuscate the fact that sales were 70% higher for one day only. You missed the part where they said they grew their company from that extra profit. Perhaps he meant grew as in bought everyone some more staplers? Good lord dude, this is getting silly.

they're still contributing

No, they aren't. Your assumption is that a pirate has a chance of turning an unknowing person into a customer. But there is a MUCH higher chance they will turn a potentially paying customer into a pirate. Free is extremely compelling. If each 100 pirates creates awareness of the game in 1 player but their uploading it to torrents results in 2 people who would have payed for it simply downloading it instead, because it is easy, free and consequence less, net loss of customers.

If we assume they weren't going to pay for it anyway

You assume too much. Demonstratable increase in sales of 70% says that some were. You laugh at the 1 in 1000 thing, but you know the average rate of downloads of demo to purchase, for a decent indie title? 1 in 100. So the rate is a tenth of that, which isn't insignificant.

They're not. Fucking. Stealing.

Who are you attempting to fool? Really. Yes, yes they are. You took something which isn't yours to take. You aren't allowed to take video cameras into movies either, or just borrow a book from a bookstore to photocopy, even though you are copying not taking. Don't you get this? There is a reason laws protect intellectual works. You've taken what isn't yours to take = Theft.

you'd have to prove that word of mouth from 1000 pirates doesn't generate at least a single sale

Can you prove that the temptation to pirate doesn't convert legit customers into pirates? If you can't, every 1 pirate conversion counters 1000 pirates word of mouth.

And since :

> Here is something for free.

is about 10000 times more tempting than :

> hey, pay for this item you already own and have gotten enjoyment out of, out of good will.

I'd say the odds of a conversion to pirate far outweigh the odds of a conversion from pirate. Given that, the loss is going to climb quickly. And your argument is silly.

That is true, but you can't dismiss them outright until you explore the implications of thousands of people spreading happy thoughts across the internet.

Oh but I can.

That's not my point. Plenty of games out there are quite successful despite rampant piracy.

What the hell is your point, really? Say I have a field of corn, I grow 10 crates full. I need 6 to feed my family. Someone steals 5. I go to some jacknut, he says hey, those guys over there grew 12 crates, sure, someone also stole 5from them but that leaves them with 7, enough to survive and a bit extra! So stop whining!

Good lord, I'd kick him in the groin, the pompous twit. Why does that fact negate my anger over people stealing my fucking corn? And why isn't the corn theft a problem in general, since the other guys, even though they survived, could have 5 MORE crates if something is done about it? Is your argument that they shouldn't be upset their corn was stolen because other people get by despite that fact? Ridiculous.

All retailers have shoplifters, so you have to account for that in your bottom line.

They do?!?! Wow!!! I did not know that! They should hire security guards who keep an eye on you and check your bags, install scanners and tags on their items....no, that would be treating the customer like a criminal. Plus, hey, if they like your clothing and other people see them wearing it it'll generate awareness, and then more people will come to your store to buy your clothes!! And afterwards we can all sing kumbaya and skip through the fields together, hooray!

You.have.got.to.be.kidding. Oh, and :

But unless you have something that is appealing to paying customers, you're fucked, no matter how low your shrinkage numbers are.

I'm getting tired of asking you to cut the personal bias. Cut it. Please, for the love of all that's holy.

Or, if they were expect the same sort of piracy rates any other game suffers from, then maybe they should have targeted another demographic

They will in future. Haven't you noticed all the devs moving to consoles? It's like a mass exodus. I can't blame them, even if it makes me unhappy. Oh wait, this is the Codex, the mindset is that only the dumb ones will move to consoles right? Ahaha.

We all know there are pirates, I wouldn't want to bank on having a piracy rate significantly below the average unless I had a very effective anti-piracy plan

I like this mythical average. An indie company eliminates known cracks in their security and sales leap up 70%. Sounds like the piracy rate varies wildly depending on your protection level. So I wouldn't "bank" on any piracy rating. But I do know I'd be sad if I was forced into that. Sucks to not have any faith in humanity.

There are a lot of factors in play here, but to blame piracy for the demise of a single studio is ridiculous.

Not enough sales led to their demise. If piracy was a factor then it is partially to blame. But hey, keep telling yourself the guy is just silly.

Also, have you forgotten that THQs anti-piracy measure for Titan Quest was not only ineffective in its purpose, but had a negative effect on the marketing of the game as well? Why shouldn't we be dismissive of someone who recognises piracy as an issue (duh), and proceeds to combat it in a completely inappropriate and self-destructive manner?

I love your hindsight. Who would have thought that people would do the equivalent of buying a watch from a guy in a back alley who holds open his coat to show his wares, then when it stops working after a month thinks "Damn you Rolex!!!!". Shows how pervasive the piracy mindset is, that we can pull dodgy copies off the net and when they don't work perfectly we think it must be the devs fault. I'd be hellova frustrated in that case. Oh wait, he was too.

70% of sales, 5-6% of the player base.

Player base is meaningless if it's not a paying player base. Thats like Mercedes counting car thieves when they try to work out what percentage of drivers drive their car. Meaningless except to make one angry.

 

[nik2008ofs]

You assume that there was a significant number of games that targeted the same audience that were clearly and irrefutably "exceptionally good" available at the time of TQ and the expansion's release, and the gaming public chose them instead. I can't think of a single such game.

Diablo II.

Yes, I am sure there were untold millions of players that hadn't yet purchased Diablo II by the time of TQ's release

 

[Joe Krow]

I wonder if having a button on consoles that allowed people to have any game they want sent to them for free would effect sales? I doubt it.

I wonder if releasing the full game as a demo would be a good idea? If people liked it they would still buy it because people are generally virtuous. Personal responsibility and anonymity, A perfect match! Why do you assume this would effect sales?

You guys should go teach in business school. Your insights into markets and supply & demand would be invaluable.

Radiohead would like to have a word with you.

At their core markets are nothing if not rational. It is irrational to use limited resources to obtain something you could have without using any. The "honor system" worked in Radiohead's case because it was an anti-corporate stunt done by a band with a devoted anti-corporate fan base. Their devotion was greater then their reason. You honestly believe that one unique exception proves this market model is viable in every other case? Really? Are you arguing that file sharing is not hurting music sales either?

You could teach a logic course in the summer so you don't get burned out on all that business stuff.

 

[Disconnected]

You could teach a logic course in the summer so you don't get burned out on all that business stuff.

So could you. If it worked, it worked. There's no exception here. If logic has exceptions, it isn't sound. Moreover, in this case there's no other attempts made, so if this is an exception it accounts for 100% of the cases.

If you had said it was irrelevant because in terms of revenue, it is even worse than trying to sell sand in Sahara (which is what you're doing at present), you would have been right.

DYI is fantastic, if you're content to be underpaid and overworked. If not, DYI isn't the way to go. That's why despite piracy and whatnot, bands like Greenday still sell out.

 

[Joe Krow]

You could teach a logic course in the summer so you don't get burned out on all that business stuff.

So could you. If it worked, it worked. There's no exception here. If logic has exceptions, it isn't sound. Moreover, in this case there's no other attempts made, so if this is an exception it accounts for 100% of the cases.

Are we constructing syllogisms here? I don't know about you but I tend to use inductive logic when considering these things. The Radiohead example falls in with all the other instances of free distribution (piracy). The only thing unique about it was that it was intentional. That aside, as I stated before, the circumstances suggest that that outcome is abnormal if not unique.

 

[nik2008ofs]

Somewhere along the line, Microsoft has forgotten this.

Of course they haven't forgotten that their leniency on piracy helped establish a huge user base back in the day, but that was then (when it had to really compete with Os/2 and other equally appealing operating systems) and this is now, when Windows Xp/Vista biggest competition is pirated versions of Windows Xp/Vista.

 

[Futile Rhetoric]

At their core markets are nothing if not rational.

Oh, oh, poor, dear Joe Krow. You don't actually understand what it is you're talking about, do you? And the attempted condescension there at the end, too -- priceless.

Oh, and Magnatune would like to have a word with you, too.

 

[Joe Krow]

At their core markets are nothing if not rational.

Oh, oh, poor, dear Joe Krow. You don't actually understand what it is you're talking about, do you? And the attempted condescension there at the end, too -- priceless.

Point please? Is this more of that "try before you buy" shit or the "infinite supply does not hurt demand" argument? It's hard not to condescend. It really is.

List of artists signed to Magnatune

Classical
Altri Stromenti
American Bach Soloists
American Baroque
Andreas Haefliger
Antonio Meneses
Asteria
Briddes Roune
Brook Street Band
Cheryl Ann Fulton
Da Camera
Daniel Ben Pienaar
Doc Rossi
Dufay Collective
Shlomo Mintz
Duo Chambure
Ensemble Mirable
Ensemble Sreteniye
Ensemble Vermillian
Farallon Recorder Quartet
Gonzalo X Ruiz
Lara St. John
Kiev Pechersk Lavra

Electronica
Ambient Teknology
Ammonite
Artemis
AntiGuru
Cargo Cult
Jan Hanford

Ambient
Falling You

Rock
Ambient Teknology
Atomic Opera
Beth Quist
Brad Sucks
Lisa DeBenedictis
The Seldon Plan
Very Large Array
Seismic Anamoly
Arthur Yoria
Plunkett

World
Anamar
Michael Masley
Shiva in Exile

You're batting a thousand today. I love Lisa DeBenedictus. I will send her all my money ("Not!" -Borat).

This proves what?

 

[vrok]

There is a reason laws protect intellectual works. You've taken what isn't yours to take = Theft.

Piracy is one google search away, eh? How about the law?

§ 506. Criminal offenses

(a) Criminal Infringement. —

(1) In general. — Any person who willfully infringes a copyright shall be punished as provided under section 2319 of title 18, if the infringement was committed —

(A) for purposes of commercial advantage or private financial gain;

(B) by the reproduction or distribution, including by electronic means, during any 180-day period, of 1 or more copies or phonorecords of 1 or more copyrighted works, which have a total retail value of more than $1,000;

or

(C) by the distribution of a work being prepared for commercial distribution, by making it available on a computer network accessible to members of the public, if such person knew or should have known that the work was intended for commercial distribution.

(2) Evidence. — For purposes of this subsection, evidence of reproduction or distribution of a copyrighted work, by itself, shall not be sufficient to establish willful infringement of a copyright.

(3) Definition. — In this subsection, the term “work being prepared for commercial distribution” means —

(A) a computer program, a musical work, a motion picture or other audiovisual work, or a sound recording, if, at the time of unauthorized distribution —

(i) the copyright owner has a reasonable expectation of commercial distribution; and

(ii) the copies or phonorecords of the work have not been commercially distributed;

or

(B) a motion picture, if, at the time of unauthorized distribution, the motion picture —

(i) has been made available for viewing in a motion picture exhibition facility; and

(ii) has not been made available in copies for sale to the general public in the United States in a format intended to permit viewing outside a motion picture exhibition facility.

OMG! What's this shit called copyright infringement dude?! It's called stealin'!

Well, it isn't. Get over it.

Like yourself I don't have a law degree but apparently it isn't even copyright infringement if you don't exceed $1,000 per 180 days. In the US anyway. LEWLZ.

 

[Hory]

DICE only became famous because it developed BF1942 by acquiring the company that had previously made a similar (and more fun, in my opinion) game, Codename: Eagle.

Your sentence doesn't make sense. DICE became famous because BF1942 was a smash hit war FPS game and represented the next big step in MP FPS gameplay. Yes, it was based on the unrealized potential of Codename Eagle and its engine, but Codename Eagle didn't provide the Conquest game mode, 64 player MP, soldier kits, maps inspired by actual WW2 battles and many other things put together that made BF1942 the arcade war game it is. Your sentence makes it sound like DICE bought the studio, laid off all the talent, stole their work and released a slightly improved clone.

If you took my reply in the context of the previous posts, you'd see that the point was that DICE didn't become successful all of a sudden, just through innovative work in recent years, but built upon older formula and experience.

 

[Alex]

That's not my point. Plenty of games out there are quite successful despite rampant piracy.

What the hell is your point, really? Say I have a field of corn, I grow 10 crates full. I need 6 to feed my family. Someone steals 5. I go to some jacknut, he says hey, those guys over there grew 12 crates, sure, someone also stole 5from them but that leaves them with 7, enough to survive and a bit extra! So stop whining!

Good lord, I'd kick him in the groin, the pompous twit. Why does that fact negate my anger over people stealing my fucking corn? And why isn't the corn theft a problem in general, since the other guys, even though they survived, could have 5 MORE crates if something is done about it? Is your argument that they shouldn't be upset their corn was stolen because other people get by despite that fact? Ridiculous.

But I think the problem here is that there is nothing anyone can do, Naked Ninja. I read the example you posted, and while it is great that it worked out for that company, I think the only reason it did was because the game was downloadable. The big games, sold in dvd inside cases are usually pirated in torrents or dvds with the crack coupled with them. The game from the example was cracked by exploiting some weakness after downloading it. Once the weakness was closed, people started becoming unable to do so.

I understand getting angry for someone stealing half of your crates, but the traps are not working right. This example even shows that the angry thieves burned a few of your stalks before leaving.

We all know there are pirates, I wouldn't want to bank on having a piracy rate significantly below the average unless I had a very effective anti-piracy plan

I like this mythical average. An indie company eliminates known cracks in their security and sales leap up 70%. Sounds like the piracy rate varies wildly depending on your protection level. So I wouldn't "bank" on any piracy rating. But I do know I'd be sad if I was forced into that. Sucks to not have any faith in humanity.

It is not a question of faith. Pirates are out there, and as long as your game is somewhat divulged, they will pirate it. The question here is that companies need to adapt to it. How do they do that? They could decrease production costs, so they have bigger profits. Or they could try to decrease piracy by rewarding paying customers. Or they increase security, although the only effective measure I can think would be to put your game in a remote server an use the customer's computer only as a terminal. Which of these work best? I don't know, but the only way to know for sure would be by testing.

Also, have you forgotten that THQs anti-piracy measure for Titan Quest was not only ineffective in its purpose, but had a negative effect on the marketing of the game as well? Why shouldn't we be dismissive of someone who recognises piracy as an issue (duh), and proceeds to combat it in a completely inappropriate and self-destructive manner?

I love your hindsight. Who would have thought that people would do the equivalent of buying a watch from a guy in a back alley who holds open his coat to show his wares, then when it stops working after a month thinks "Damn you Rolex!!!!". Shows how pervasive the piracy mindset is, that we can pull dodgy copies off the net and when they don't work perfectly we think it must be the devs fault. I'd be hellova frustrated in that case. Oh wait, he was too.

I hope I made my point clear, but even though I don't think less of the guy for being frustrated, I think everyone would be better off learning from this. His copy protection was mistaken for a bug. It was the company's fault, for making it work exactly like a bug, (unless this behavior is due the crack, but it doesn't seem that way). Even if that wasn't the case, it is worth remembering: pirates will at least try to pirate your game. If they are frustrated, they will complain, just like real consumers. This brings bad publicity to the company, regardless of the piracy factor.

 

[Disconnected]

But I think the problem here is that there is nothing anyone can do, Naked Ninja.

Naked Ninja's analogy doesn't have the first thing to do with his problem. No corn was stolen from him, nor would he be any better of if someone donated 50 gazillion crates of corn to him.

To use his analogy, his problem is that he is trying to sell crates of corn, and the market he wants to sell it on, is flooded with free corn of equal quality. Naturally that can't be done.

Thus the real problem isn't theft, piracy or anything else along those lines. Rather, it is his bloody minded refusal to find a market for his product.

And again, whether I'm a pirate, an asshole, whine incessantly and have the IQ of a rock, is of no consequence to Naked Ninja & the gaming industry at large.

His attitude is of consequence though. Because if his attitude makes me perceive him as a dangerous psychopath who, for the sake of something as insignificant as a copy of a fucking video game, will cause serious financial harm to others and perhaps throw them in prison, then I naturally won't have anything to do with him or any products associated with him.

Since what he can sell is the attention of his audience, the last thing he wants to do (if he's interested in earning a living that is), is alienating his audience.

 

[Jaime Lannister]

Yes, I am sure there were untold millions of players that hadn't yet purchased Diablo II by the time of TQ's release

Why would they purchase TQ if they already had D2?

 

[nik2008ofs]

Yes, I am sure there were untold millions of players that hadn't yet purchased Diablo II by the time of TQ's release

Why would they purchase TQ if they already had D2?

Don't know, but many who liked D2 did buy TQ, probably because they had played to death D2+expansion for 5 years and Sacred+expansion for 2 years and wanted more of the same. The Codex likes to point out that there are no more "true" cRpgs made anymore, but the truth is that there aren't many true worthwhile action Rpgs either, and people that love Diablo clones (yes, they do exist) are fairly starved. By the same token, why would they pirate TQ if they already had D2?

 

[Naked Ninja]

@ Vrok : Your google-fu is weak. Enlightenment, I gives you its :

The United States No Electronic Theft Act (NET Act), a federal law passed in 1997, provides for criminal prosecution of individuals who engage in copyright infringement, even when there is no monetary profit or commercial benefit from the infringement. Maximum penalties can be five years in prison and up to $250,000 in fines. The NET Act also raised statutory damages by 50%.

Prior to that, weasels like you could smugly exploit a loophole in the law, which allowed them to pretend they weren't stealing, even though they were :

Prior to the enactment of the NET Act in 1997, copyright infringement for a noncommercial purpose was apparently not punishable by criminal prosecution, although noncommercial infringers could be sued in a civil action by the copyright holder to recover damages. At that time, criminal prosecutions under the copyright act were possible only when the infringer derived a commercial benefit from his or her actions. This state of affairs was underscored by the unsuccessful 1994 prosecution of David LaMacchia, then a student at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology, for allegedly facilitating massive copyright infringement as a hobby, without any commercial motive. The court's dismissal of United States vs. LaMacchia suggested that then-existing criminal law simply did not apply to noncommercial infringements (a state of affairs which became known as the "LaMacchia Loophole"). The court suggested that Congress could act to make some noncommercial infringements a crime, and Congress acted on that suggestion in the NET Act.

The NET Act amends the definition of "commercial advantage or private financial gain" to include the exchange of copies of copyrighted works even if no money changes hands and specifies penalties of up to five years in prison and up to $250,000 in fines. It also creates a threshold for criminal liability even where the infringer neither obtained nor expected to obtain anything of value for the infringement.

The act raised the levels of statutory damages in civil cases to $750 - $30,000 per work (and up to $150,000 per work in case of willful infringement).

Further reading :

http://kb.iu.edu/data/aliv.html

Well, it isn't. Get over it.

Indeed. Get over it.

But I think the problem here is that there is nothing anyone can do, Naked Ninja. I read the example you posted, and while it is great that it worked out for that company, I think the only reason it did was because the game was downloadable.

No, it worked because it made it harder. That is the simple, fundamental truth. People in general take the path of least resistance. Talk of sharing awareness or whatever, thats all very altruistic sounding. But the real reason is just that it is easy. If it's easy and consequence less to steal, they do. If it isn't, they pay. This is human nature. But really, turning round and jeering at the guy for being angry and upset about it...makes me grind my teeth.

And yeah, there will be a consequence. The big companies are going to look for ways to tighten control, like they have on consoles. You heard about the PC gaming alliance? I wouldn't be surprised if that thinktank came up with something like steam. We are going to see stricter controls and less consumer trust. You are going to play games where the majority of the game sits on a server, where you won't get the software at all, only dumb clients. Where if the companies servers go down, say goodbye to your saves. It's already coming, I suggest you google InstantAction, garagegames' new initiative. Once they get this working it's going to change the whole face of the market. People like disconnected are in for a surprise.

Since what he can sell is the attention of his audience, the last thing he wants to do (if he's interested in earning a living that is), is alienating his audience.

I like the way you rant on about the virtues of piracy then talk about how I should do something if I'm interested in earning a living. Your frothing incoherency is rather endearing, please continue. And I must say, you really hit the nail on the head when you chose your nickname, good job.

 

[vrok]

Read it again.

(B) by the reproduction or distribution, including by electronic means, during any 180-day period, of 1 or more copies or phonorecords of 1 or more copyrighted works, which have a total retail value of more than $1,000

The above has nothing to do with monetary profit or commercial benefit so your post was meaningless. I showed you what the crime is, copyright infringement, meaning not stealing. There's a difference, according to the law, even if you're not willing to admit it. Your religious beliefs or whatever makes your morality tick means nothing. Get over it.

 

[Disconnected]

I like the way you rant on about the virtues of piracy then talk about how I should do something if I'm interested in earning a living. Your frothing incoherency is rather endearing, please continue. And I must say, you really hit the nail on the head when you chose your nickname, good job.

If the post wasn't intelligible to you, the problem was neither ranting nor lack of coherence on my part. You simply can't read.

I have yet to extol the virtues of software piracy. Why? Because I don't think there's anything laudable about it. Our difference with regards to software piracy is simply this:

I don't claim it exist and act as if it didn't. You do.

If you at some point in the future feel like addressing my arguments, instead of doing your utmost to ensure I won't be your costumer, presenting strawmen and throwing ad hominem after fucking adhominem my way, do go ahead.

 

[Naked Ninja]

Gad but you're hopeless weasels.

The Digital Millennium Copyright Act (DMCA) is a United States copyright law which implements two 1996 WIPO treaties. It criminalizes production and dissemination of technology, devices, or services that are used to circumvent measures that control access to copyrighted works (commonly known as DRM) and criminalizes the act of circumventing an access control, even when there is no infringement of copyright itself. It also heightens the penalties for copyright infringement on the Internet. Passed on October 12, 1998 by a unanimous vote in the United States Senate and signed into law by President Bill Clinton on October 28, 1998, the DMCA amended title 17 of the U.S. Code to extend the reach of copyright, while limiting the liability of Online Providers from copyright infringement by their users.

I've highlighted the bit that makes you a criminal Vrok, since you're so keen on weaseling out of it.

 

[vrok]

Hahahaha. You're insane. I already told you it was a crime with my original quote, it makes no difference what you prefer to call the crime. It's just not legally the crime of theft. TWO DIFFERENT CRIMES.

Do you get it now or do I have to draw you a fucking picture retardo-boy?

 

[DraQ]

Do you get it now or do I have to draw you a fucking picture retardo-boy?

I recommend using crayons.

 

[Naked Ninja]

So your argument is that it isn't theft, it's some other, completely different crime, which somehow changes something in this discussion?

It's copyright infringement, which is the fancy way of saying "theft of ideas". Good job weasel.

I weep for humanity.