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TOEE is orgasmic

biggestboss

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Just got to the elemental planes after Hedrack and I love how the battle music changes to some electronic music. The battles also seem to be a cut above all the other encounters so far, although I guess that started with Hedrack himself. I wonder what builds people use to kill Iuz before Cuthbert appears.
 

Sitra Achara

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Codex 2012 Codex 2013 Codex 2014 PC RPG Website of the Year, 2015
I think my ToEE install might be fucked. I have just Temple+ but picked Scorching Ray on my Sorcerer, which doesn't show up in the help menu, and whenever I cast it and land a hit, there is no effect. Any ideas Sitra Achara?
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I'll look into it, but be aware that gog added some fan stuff, scorching ray included, so you're not supposed to use it :p
 

Maggot

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Codex 2016 - The Age of Grimoire
Time to pirate another version :smug:
EDIT: Looks like there are no other versions that are readily available. GOG has one job and they can't even offer a proper vanilla package.
 
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anvi

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Just got to the elemental planes after Hedrack and I love how the battle music changes to some electronic music. The battles also seem to be a cut above all the other encounters so far, although I guess that started with Hedrack himself. I wonder what builds people use to kill Iuz before Cuthbert appears.
I have a fighter, cleric, rogue, wiz, druid. All level 10. They killed Hedreck in no time, he didn't even get to summon Iuz. Wiz can use big ice storms and fireballs on Hedrack and most of the stuff in the room, Druid does the same, I used fighter to tank him and focus enemies into the middle of the room, and used rogue to defend my casters against anything that comes to the back, and Cleric can use the awesome Holy Smite spell. The fighter is longsword and shield which can do quite a lot of damage, especially if he gets lucky with a crit. He attacks 3 times if he doesn't move.

The elemental planes have been ok so far, I nearly finished them, but the battle against the fire boss (Balor) has been impossible for me. Not sure what I am gonna do about it, I might have to semi cheat. My weapons were fine all up until now, but on that fight my fighter and rogue can't land a single hit. And no spells hit him except for magic missile which is too weak and too slow.
 

Sitra Achara

Arcane
Joined
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Codex 2012 Codex 2013 Codex 2014 PC RPG Website of the Year, 2015
Time to pirate another version :smug:
EDIT: Looks like there are no other versions that are readily available. GOG has one job and they can't even offer a proper vanilla package.

Ok I found the issue, corrected for next version. As mentioned, it's due to Scorching Ray being added in the gog version.
On that note, GoG uses the moebius patch. It's very fix oriented so I wouldn't sweat it.
 

anvi

Prophet
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All elemental nodes finished! Time for the final battle. That Balor boss was so shit to play :/ I had to save scum the hell out of it and even with that I ended by running away with my mage and sending magic missiles from a mile away :< The other bosses were 100 times easier.
 
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All elemental nodes finished! Time for the final battle. That Balor boss was so shit to play :/ I had to save scum the hell out of it and even with that I ended by running away with my mage and sending magic missiles from a mile away :< The other bosses were 100 times easier.

Congratulations. That fight is brutal. I think I've only ever made it through once without leaning on Solid Fog. The Balor has tremendous reach, so it ends up imposing the highest concealment penalty to his attacks. Having my polearm masters kite him around and interrupt his movement (that's already hampered by Solid Fog) helps a great deal. Another side benefit of Solid Fog, is that if the Balor was able to turn any of your companions with suggestion, they have a habit of sitting the fight out because the Fog makes it difficult for them to detect others. In the meantime you just pray the Balor's attacks miss, and his spell resistance fails, and the spells don't run out.
 

anvi

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Thanks! And yeah it was hard, especially for me because I only have basic weapons, +3 sword and a pair of +1 daggers, so they didn't land a single hit. I also couldn't seem to craft anything on my Cleric, I think because I got to level 10 so there was no exp to spend. I could have loaded an older save and fixed my weapon situation, but I managed to win anyway with spells. I used about 25 magic missiles and save scummed to get a good roll on Holy Smite and some other stuff.

Also the bosses 2 buddies are easy, but then he summons either a smaller version of himself (which is really tough!), or 3 super frog things, or 1 big creature that is really tough, or a small army of evil mini drake/bat things. Those bats seem far easier because I nuked them to death with just 2 spells. Also they focused one of my summoned creatures which was so lucky. I think that is the easiest option by far.

I just killed Zuggtmoy too :) She was almost as hard as the Balor for me, again, zero damage from my melees :/ But the Orb let me summon infinite earth elementals so I just trapped her in one spot and pummeled her with lots of magic missiles. Now I need to check out this extra content or maybe time to move on to the next game.
 

Cryomancer

Arcane
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I an almost completing my soloing challenge of the game.

No, i have no pride in saying that. Lost my girlfriend one year ago, an blonde, green eyed 20 yo(i an 28) gorgeous woman of slavic ancestry and i live in a white minority country(45% identify as white, but less than 20% is), an woman like her will be an nightmare to found, but i got lucky one time, maybe i roll another 20... Anyway, due my long free time, not working and single, i was playing RPG's like an autist. I have on gog almost 90 hours in two weeks. Finished the game with party + recruit able companions and then started to solo the game... That is insane. Got 90 hours in two weeks and was not the unique game that i was playing... Only leaved my house to go work out in the Gym, so i was spending most of my time playing games instead of doing anything productive...

UvhHcjA.png


On my solo runs, with ToEE + Co8, the beginning was extremely brutal. TBH i got forced to use hirelings in few quests. But once got fireball, i could start to farm XP easily abusing the resting mechanic. And since Co8 removes the level cap, i won an shit ton of XP in some encounters... Ironically, the end parts of the game is being extremely more easy than starting ones... But i found on YT, an guy who managed to solo the game in about 30 minutes, soloing without the mod who removes the level cap. That is ludicrous... Took almost an entire week playing the game, with a lot of free time and i still din't finished, an node still missing. HE in other hands, din't even needed the Co8 mod and beated the game at lv 10.

 

anvi

Prophet
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I can't even imagine how you can win with 1 guy, my team was 5 and it was brutal in those last 2 fights. Is the extra content worth playing? I just started exploring the new town of Verdsomething and I am losing my motivation.
 

Cryomancer

Arcane
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Finished...

I can't even imagine how you can win with 1 guy, my team was 5 and it was brutal in those last 2 fights. Is the extra content worth playing? I just started exploring the new town of Verdsomething and I am losing my motivation.

See the video. Anyway, i defeated one of the node bosses with an SINGLE wail of the Banshee

The final boss via bombarding the final boss with high level summons and maximized/empowered spells that deals no damage on my summons. I alt tabed here while was fighting her due long animations from her summons and my summons

bKwyfFA.png


BKG67gq.png


0bDgan7.png




BmDrAFX.png




S5UiZLl.png


BmDrAFX.png

wDECVP2.png
 

anvi

Prophet
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Ahh does he become super high level because it is only 1 character? My team seemed locked at level 10.
 

Cryomancer

Arcane
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Ahh does he become super high level because it is only 1 character? My team seemed locked at level 10.

The level cap is 10 but did you installed Co8 who removes level cap? Anyway, see an screenshot of i gaining 10k xp in a single battle. Rest scum and save scum allow you to get shit ton of XPs...I reached lv 16 on the floor 4 if i remember correctly.

PS : IMO an lv 20 sorcerer is stronger than 10 LV 10 sorcerers...
 

anvi

Prophet
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Yeah co8 installed but seems stuck at level 10 :/ I figured it was locked at 10 until you kill Zuggtmoy. I wonder if running via Temple+ screwed it up. If I try to run it via co8 it wont load the savegames. I guess my journey ends here :P


p.s. you should use SpeedHack by the way! You don't have to wait for anything in combat. You can speed the game up 100x.
 
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Cryomancer

Arcane
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I love ToEE, but this decision of cap at level to 10 is the most retardaded decision that Troika ever made.... Baldur's Gate 1 is a low level game, but an game where you end up fighting Balors and an demon lord who controls an layer of the Abyss(Zuggtmoy), her Challenge ratting on 3e and 5e is adequate for epic level characters. When i soloed her(co 8), took an eternity and i wasted all of my tier 6~9 spells. And ended with almost no tier 5 spells left. Luckily, Co8 fixed this big flaw of the game... This decision was probably made in order to force the player into weakening her using the skull and making the complex ritual, or to not make then have to implement high tier spells.
 

Roguey

Codex Staff
Staff Member
Sawyerite
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Messages
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I love ToEE, but this decision of cap at level to 10 is the most retardaded decision that Troika ever made.... Baldur's Gate 1 is a low level game, but an game where you end up fighting Balors and an demon lord who controls an layer of the Abyss(Zuggtmoy), her Challenge ratting on 3e and 5e is adequate for epic level characters. When i soloed her(co 8), took an eternity and i wasted all of my tier 6~9 spells. And ended with almost no tier 5 spells left. Luckily, Co8 fixed this big flaw of the game... This decision was probably made in order to force the player into weakening her using the skull and making the complex ritual, or to not make then have to implement high tier spells.
The Temple of Elemental Evil is a module meant for players level 1-8. Additionally, they delivered more features than what they agreed to in their contract with Atari. Adding even more spells and features on top of that would have resulted in an even more disastrous launch.
 

Cryomancer

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The Temple of Elemental Evil is a module meant for players level 1-8. Additionally, they delivered more features than what they agreed to in their contract with Atari. Adding even more spells and features on top of that would have resulted in an even more disastrous launch.

And how an lv 8 player is supposed to kill an demon princess who controls the 222th level of Abyss?
 
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Codex Year of the Donut
The Temple of Elemental Evil is a module meant for players level 1-8. Additionally, they delivered more features than what they agreed to in their contract with Atari. Adding even more spells and features on top of that would have resulted in an even more disastrous launch.

And how an lv 8 player is supposed to kill an demon princess who controls the 222th level of Abyss?
With the power of friendship.
 

Cryomancer

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Very carefully. Many people did. Destroying the skull helps a lot of course.

Yep, that is why i like co8, IMO trow everything that you got against an demon queen is more interesting than nerfing the enemy to make her far weaker than her servants... And use an gimmicky way to destroy the skull. I don't like gimmicky battles. On my furst run, i was with 7 party members at lv 10 and she was insanely hard. The game punished me for being unable to find the skull... Took an long time as high level, but was much more fair.

With the power of friendship.

Anime and jRPG fans liked it.

edit : not even the most blood-lust DM that i ever saw decided to trow an epic level boss into an low level party, require an gimmicky way to weaken the boss and hardcaps the party max level...
 
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Codex Year of the Donut
Very carefully. Many people did. Destroying the skull helps a lot of course.

Yep, that is why i like co8, IMO trow everything that you got against an demon queen is more interesting than nerfing the enemy to make her far weaker than her servants... And use an gimmicky way to destroy the skull. I don't like gimmicky battles. On my furst run, i was with 7 party members at lv 10 and she was insanely hard. The game punished me for being unable to find the skull...

With the power of friendship.

Anime and jRPG fans liked it.
It was likely just an aspect of Zuggtmoy. I'd have to go reread the module and related material.
 

Roguey

Codex Staff
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Yep, that is why i like co8, IMO trow everything that you got against an demon queen is more interesting than nerfing the enemy to make her far weaker than her servants... And use an gimmicky way to destroy the skull. I don't like gimmicky battles. On my furst run, i was with 7 party members at lv 10 and she was insanely hard. The game punished me for being unable to find the skull... Took an long time as high level, but was much more fair.

:what:

I beat non-nerfed Zuggy quite easily with a 10th-level party of five.

Additionally, back in the day Dungeon masters/game designers didn't care if you could complete their games or not. If you died in the final battle or earlier, then that's how things turned out.

It was likely just an aspect of Zuggtmoy. I'd have to go reread the module and related material.

No, it's her. She's stuck down there.

In area 216, characters may find a scroll bearing a short and cryptic poem. For your reference, this note refers to the contents of area 334. The recovery of Fragarach can be of great importance not only to this scenario but to the larger campaign events in progress.
As the key to final success against Zuggtmoy hinges on the recovery of the Orb of Golden Death (described in Appendix D), the following poem should be introduced at a convenient point. The exact method is left to the DM. After any dungeon level is entered, if any Neutral player character revisits the Jaroo, the Druid of the Grove in Hommlet (for shelter, advice, etc. ), he may bring out an old parchment bearing the clue. A Lawful Good character visiting the Church of St. Cuthbert (in Hommlet) for similar reasons can likewise receive the poem, by means magical or mundane. (Of course, such a character could not actually employ the Orb, so this route is not optimum. ) At last resort, if PCs lack the opportunity for such contacts or fail to gather enough background information, you might introduce the clue in a dream, simply reciting it to one or more players as you see fit.

The Two united, in the past,
a Place to build, and spells to cast.
Their power grew, and took the land
and people round, as they had planned.
A key without a lock they made
of gold and gems, and overlaid
with spells, a tool for men to wield
to force the powers of Good to yield.
But armies came, their weapons bared,
while evil was yet unprepared.
The Hart was followed by the Crowns
and Moon, and people of the towns.
The Two were split; one got away
but She, when came the judgment day,
did break the key, and sent the rocks
to boxes four, with magic locks.
In doing so, She fell behind
as He escaped. She was confined
among Her own; her very lair
became her prison and despair.
The Place was ruined, torn apart
and left with chains around the heart
of evil power—but the key
was never found in the debris.
He knows not where She dwells today.
She set the minions' path, the way
To lift Her Temple high again
With tools of flesh, with mortal men.
Many now have gone to die
in water, flame, in earth, or sky.
They did not bear the key of old
that must be found—the orb of gold.
Beware, my friend, for you shall fall
unless you have the wherewithall
to find and search the boxes four
and then escape forevermore.
But with the key, you might succeed
in throwing down Her power and greed.
Destroy the key when you are done
and then rejoice, the battle won.

Also keep in mind that both in the module and Troika's adaptation, you don't have to actually kill Zuggy to win the game.

If all the gems are pried from the throne, Zuggtmoy is freed to return to her home plane (as if all the bronze gates had been sundered), but is imprisoned there for 66 years, after which she may come forth with all her normal powers.
 

Cryomancer

Arcane
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Additionally, back in the day Dungeon masters/game designers didn't care if you could complete their games or not. If you died in the final battle or earlier, then that's how things turned out.

I defeated her with lv 10 party members + hirelings with tons and tons of "save scuming" but was not fun TBH. Look to Ravenloft. Count Strahd von Zarovich is if i remember correctly a lv 15 Necromancer/Fighter and ancient vampire. 3 attacks / turn, powerful spells, vampire resistances/immunities, high stats... He is an tough guy but was an not leagues above an mid level party. Hell, you start at lv 6 on Ravenloft: Strahd's Possession and can learn spells up to tier 6.


Keep in mind hat if you are with less players, the DM would generally allow the party to have more XP. If there are an DM + 2 players playing ToEE, the idea that the two players would be capped at lv 8/10 despite having much more XP is ludicrous. What i like about D&D is that the PC's and NPC's are subjected to the same rules. An hard cap goes against that principle... And i honestly like to do solo runs. Soloed IWD, BG1/2 and now ToEE with Co8. PF:KM i din't managed to solo due resting mechanics. If you have enough XP to level up, you should level up.
 

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