TOEE is orgasmic

[anvi]

You can change max level in the temple+ configuration.

Mine is set at 20 but characters are stuck at level 10 and are not gaining any exp.

Ahh nevermind. It was set at 20 in co8 but only 10 in temple+

I am happy to beat Crone boss at 10 though, it feels more legit. But now I can do the new content and see about using some high level spells :D

 

[Mr. Magniloquent]

I can't think of any time I actually lost :-/. I've only ever destroyed the skull once. On one of my earlier play-through (perhaps my first), Zuggtomy had stolen the skull from me before the battle began. The resulting battle was one of attrition that I was slowly beginning to lose. Suddenly she used to skull to summon a Glabrazeu! On my turn, I cast Charm Monster on it and it worked! The thing then shredded her to bits. That was probably the closest I ever came to losing against her. I remember the Balor being more difficult, though not by much.

 

[Fairfax]

The Temple of Elemental Evil is a module meant for players level 1-8. Additionally, they delivered more features than what they agreed to in their contract with Atari. Adding even more spells and features on top of that would have resulted in an even more disastrous launch.

And how an lv 8 player is supposed to kill an demon princess who controls the 222th level of Abyss?

Although it's possible to defeat her in the original module and the CRPG, you're right about that being ridiculous. Zuggtmoy was meant to be unkillable, as she was in Gygax's campaign. PCs were supposed to either banish or free her (as Robilar did), but Mentzer messed up.

 

[anvi]

What skulls are you guys talking about?

 

[Sitra Achara]

The Temple of Elemental Evil is a module meant for players level 1-8. Additionally, they delivered more features than what they agreed to in their contract with Atari. Adding even more spells and features on top of that would have resulted in an even more disastrous launch.

And how an lv 8 player is supposed to kill an demon princess who controls the 222th level of Abyss?

Although it's possible to defeat her in the original module and the CRPG, you're right about that being ridiculous. Zuggtmoy was meant to be unkillable, as she was in Gygax's campaign. PCs were supposed to either banish or free her (as Robilar did), but Mentzer messed up.

You mean this part?

Power comes in overthrowing the denizens of the Greater Temple; the ability to beard Zuggtmoy in her lair comes from the magic and weapons found in the Elemental Nodes. The anticlimax comes when the party finally reaches the portion of the third level wherein Zuggtmoy is bound.

What was she like in the original campaign?

 

[biggestboss]

What skulls are you guys talking about?

I assume they mean the Orb of Golden Death

 

[anvi]

Ahh. I never could have beaten Zuggy without that. I used almost every option, and the Earth Elemental seemed to be infinite which I needed too.

 

[biggestboss]

Ahh. I never could have beaten Zuggy without that. I used almost every option, and the Earth Elemental seemed to be infinite which I needed too.

I haven't beaten the game yet but I did look at a guide. You're supposed to

Spoiler

have Rufus and Burne's assistant destroy it in a ritual after attaching the elemental nodes to it and afterwards the final boss's health and stats are greatly reduced for four days.

 

[Mr. Magniloquent]

What skulls are you guys talking about?

I assume they mean the Orb of Golden Death

That's correct. Is it not shaped like a skull? I remember it that way. Anyhow, has anyone traded Iuz for it? I remember him recognizing I possessed it, then he agreed to barter for it. There were 3 or 4 options. Negotiations failed. Has anyone successfully trade the orb with Iuz? I don't see anything about it in guides.

 

[anvi]

Ahh, yeah it is a big skull but the things which go into it are like colored orbs. I only tried a few options for killing Zuggy, like taking the gems to banish her etc. I saw many more online, pretty amazing. I wanted to defeat her in battle though because I figured it was the ultimate challenge. But I figured out that those last couple of bosses that couldn't be touched, are super easy if you craft a weapon with "Holy" on it. Once I spotted the level 10 cap in temple+ config, I changed it to 20 and grinded some exp, crafted holy onto my +3 sword, and he hits like a train now! Going to try Zuggy again with that. It seems that was how it was meant to be done. I previously did it without being able to land any melee hits and it was kind of a stupid exploity battle. Gonna do it for real now.

And then I am looking forward to seeing the level 10+ content.

 

[Cryomancer]

I din't found anything on Co8 city. Where i should look for an walktrought?

 

[Roguey]

I defeated her with lv 10 party members + hirelings with tons and tons of "save scuming" but was not fun TBH.

Play better.

An hard cap goes against that principle... And i honestly like to do solo runs. Soloed IWD, BG1/2

? All these games have level caps.

 

[Fairfax]

The Temple of Elemental Evil is a module meant for players level 1-8. Additionally, they delivered more features than what they agreed to in their contract with Atari. Adding even more spells and features on top of that would have resulted in an even more disastrous launch.

And how an lv 8 player is supposed to kill an demon princess who controls the 222th level of Abyss?

Although it's possible to defeat her in the original module and the CRPG, you're right about that being ridiculous. Zuggtmoy was meant to be unkillable, as she was in Gygax's campaign. PCs were supposed to either banish or free her (as Robilar did), but Mentzer messed up.

You mean this part?

Power comes in overthrowing the denizens of the Greater Temple; the ability to beard Zuggtmoy in her lair comes from the magic and weapons found in the Elemental Nodes. The anticlimax comes when the party finally reaches the portion of the third level wherein Zuggtmoy is bound.

What was she like in the original campaign?

Yes, that's part of it. Gygax despised the idea of (D&D) PCs (let alone 8th-level ones) being able to kill deities or similar figures, and explicitly said that Zuggtmoy was "unkillable". It is known that Mentzer designed most of the lower levels and the whole Elemental Nodes thing, so one can also assume that he added the Orb of Golden Death and everything else that ties into the ability to weaken/destroy Zuggtmoy.

 

[Roguey]

In Troika's ToEE it's totally possible to kill Iuz. Gygax would certainly freak.

 

[Cryomancer]

? All these games have level caps.

There are an XP cap of 8.000.000 on IWD, enough to reach high level from non multi class chars and on BG1, you don't fight enemies with CR >= 20

Anyway, you are in her domain. The temple is her domain. The idea that she will see you making efforts to weaken her and will not try to stop trowing an big demon army into you makes no sense.

In Troika's ToEE it's totally possible to kill Iuz. Gygax would certainly freak.

And that makes NO SENSE. No mid level character should be expected to survive few rounds against an demi god. Kill an demigod only serves to make demigods feels far weaker.

Dragons in D&D already are too weak. Think an little, if the PC with little draconic blood can become an lv 20 caster in 10 years as an sorcerer, imagine what an ancient dragon who probably is more older than many kingdoms can do. IMO an ancient silver dragon shoudl be at least caster level 25 and ALL cold spells that he cast should be empowered/maximized, should be able to cast spells up to tier 7 at will and should be able to pierce cold resistance/immunity similar to hellfire vs fire immune mobs. He also should know ancient spells that no mortal man knows. When i DMed long time ago, i made Dragons far stronger. So strong that an high level party would require a lot of strategy and hiring a lot of merceneries to slay an adult dragon. Ancient dragons should be much more epic. And demigods, the same things that i said about ancient dragons applies to demigods.

 

[Roguey]

There are an XP cap of 8.000.000 on IWD, enough to reach high level from non multi class chars and on BG1, you don't fight enemies with CR >= 20

Without Heart of Winter, it's 1,800,000. That's more than BG, but only because they were able to piggyback off of it.

Anyway, you are in her domain. The temple is her domain. The idea that she will see you making efforts to weaken her and will not try to stop trowing an big demon army into you makes no sense.

She's not omniscient. She's stuck down there on her specific level and when she sees you, her first goal is to try to trick you into breaking the barriers so she can be free. She only tries to kill you if you can't be tricked into doing that. She also can't summon an endless supply of creatures.

She can become ethereal twice per day, and can use each of the following once per day:limited wish, gate, summon fungi. Her gate (70% successful) may be attempted up to once per round, but will succeed only once daily; it summons (01-50) 1-4 Type I demons, (51-75) 1-3 Type II demons, (76-90)1-2 Type III demons, 'or (91-00) 1 babau demon.

 

[Cryomancer]

There are an XP cap of 8.000.000 on IWD, enough to reach high level from non multi class chars and on BG1, you don't fight enemies with CR >= 20

Without Heart of Winter, it's 1,800,000. That's more than BG, but only because they were able to piggyback off of it.

Anyway, you are in her domain. The temple is her domain. The idea that she will see you making efforts to weaken her and will not try to stop trowing an big demon army into you makes no sense.

She's not omniscient. She's stuck down there on her specific level and when she sees you, her first goal is to try to trick you into breaking the barriers so she can be free. She only tries to kill you if you can't be tricked into doing that. She also can't summon an endless supply of creatures.

She can become ethereal twice per day, and can use each of the following once per day:limited wish, gate, summon fungi. Her gate (70% successful) may be attempted up to once per round, but will succeed only once daily; it summons (01-50) 1-4 Type I demons, (51-75) 1-3 Type II demons, (76-90)1-2 Type III demons, 'or (91-00) 1 babau demon.

So, they implemented gate for her. And lets be honest, adapt an fireball into an delayed fireball and reuse animations to implement finger of the death, allow summon monster VI~IX to cast monsters that already was in the game, doesn't sound that hard or time consuming. Even modders did it and made the game far better. Doesn't matter if was an decision by troika or by the ToEE original module devs. The idea of hard capping the party and trowing epic level monsters with gimmicky ways to weaken her is awful, the game is good but is much better without this BS. I had zero wish to re play the game when i finished at lv 10, what motivated me to re play was be able to see high level spells. Ended the game with 210k XP and had an much better experience. Much less save scuming, less seeing the same enemy slowly moving, etc.

PS 1,8 mi is enouth to be lv 14~17 depending your class.

 

[anvi]

Zuggy dead!!! This time with a legit fight, still level 10. I save scummed a little bit but no infinite earth elementals and chipping away forever. This time I had a +3 Holy Longsword with about 20 buffs including haste, hero, etc. He tore her up pretty good. And some spells landed hard too. Also when I summoned all the creatures with the Orb, most of them suck but the Frog hit pretty hard and I gave it haste which ended up doing quite a lot of damage. Summoned Balor got some lucky hits too. Mostly he sucked because he tried to dominate her which I guess isn't possible, then he tried Slay Living or something. Basically a few wasted turns, but on his last turn he did about 40 damage. I also had a +3 Holy Crossbow which helped do some damage. Tough fight... but feels good to kill her in a more legit way.

Tomorrow I will check out the new town and see what the higher level spells are like. As much as I have loved completing vanilla TOEE, the low levels is a bummer. I miss having higher level spells so hopefully I'll get to enjoy that next.

 

[deuxhero]

In Troika's ToEE it's totally possible to kill Iuz. Gygax would certainly freak.

Note, however, that if a PC assault-ing the area has completed the assembly of Yellowskull (by first exploring the Nodes to retrieve the gems of power), even the Old One is relatively powerless to prevent the final defeat of the Temple of Elemental Evil.

Iuz also has stats in the book, therefore he is killable.

 

[Cryomancer]

Tomorrow I will check out the new town and see what the higher level spells are like. As much as I have loved completing vanilla TOEE, the low levels is a bummer. I miss having higher level spells so hopefully I'll get to enjoy that next.

Please. Write your troughs about high level on ToEE, i wanna hear your opinion.

 

[Lonely Vazdru]

Iuz also has stats in the book, therefore he is killable.

That would so please Gygax !

 

[Mr. Magniloquent]

Dragons in D&D already are too weak. Think an little, if the PC with little draconic blood can become an lv 20 caster in 10 years as an sorcerer, imagine what an ancient dragon who probably is more older than many kingdoms can do. IMO an ancient silver dragon shoudl be at least caster level 25 and ALL cold spells that he cast should be empowered/maximized, should be able to cast spells up to tier 7 at will and should be able to pierce cold resistance/immunity similar to hellfire vs fire immune mobs. He also should know ancient spells that no mortal man knows. When i DMed long time ago, i made Dragons far stronger. So strong that an high level party would require a lot of strategy and hiring a lot of merceneries to slay an adult dragon. Ancient dragons should be much more epic. And demigods, the same things that i said about ancient dragons applies to demigods.

I make dragons stronger too, and along similar lines. All dragons have sorcerer levels comparable to their age category. I think I used to do like, +3-4 sorcerer levels for each age category, with Golds and unique dragons getting a bonus and White dragons having a penalty. Rather then give their corresponding elemental spells free empowerment (good idea btw), I had all dragons well versed in word magic. Primal, powerful, innate--it feels very fitting. All dragons know all word spells, which they can cast one as a free action each turn. I can't remember the quantity I permitted, but I think it was once per day for each. These dragons were not to be fucked with.

 

[Cryomancer]

Pool of Radiance: Ruins of Myth Drannor is similar to ToEE??? I saw an video and spells up to tier 8 are in the game and the game is turn based

ps ; not confuse with the 1988 game. I an talking about the 2001 game.

 

[anvi]

@Sitra Achara or Anyone know how to fix a sound effect that is driving me insane? It is like a little drum roll with a magic noise at the end of it. It seems to come from my Rogue and nobody else. It only started recently but it is happening every 10 seconds or so. If I run my party around without the Rogue, it doesn't happen. As soon as the Rogue is on screen, it plays that stupid noise over and over. I tried taking all the gear off but it still happens. PLS HALP!

 

[Sitra Achara]

Never heard of that before. Try talking to jaroo about permanent effects.
9f that doesnt sopve the issue, [lease upload the save.