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Tomb Raider I-III Remastered from Aspyr - for real this time

Lemming42

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The Satellite Of Love
You can control the camera directly with numpad zero too.

Complaints about clunkiness usually seem to come from people who are failing jumps because they didn't do the tutorial section. Hold shift to walk to edges without falling, release shift and tap back once to give yourself full running jump distance. If you master that, which takes approximately four seconds, you can clear every single part of the first two games.
 

Lacrymas

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Sep 23, 2015
Messages
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Pathfinder: Wrath
Temple of Xian in 2 requires more fancy movements, namely backflipping in the air while jumping off a ladder, but otherwise yeah. Half the challenge in these games is finding the way forward (as opposed to platforming) by thorough exploration and I find that very fun and rewarding. Don't get me wrong, there are quite tricky maneuvers and precise jumping requirements sometimes, but it's not the focus of classic TR.
 

Semiurge

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HWpjPa6.png
 

Unkillable Cat

LEST WE FORGET
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Codex 2014 Make the Codex Great Again! Grab the Codex by the pussy
The controls aren't clunky, they are actually very precise and function incredibly well with how the game is constructed.
Translation: The controls are clunky because the game is clunky.

Also, tank-like controls to move a person aren't clunky? Get out of here. Tomb Raider created the absurd notion that tank controls could be applied to other games than those actually featuring tanks, such as adventure games like Grim Fandango and Escape from Monkey Island. What's the first thing about those two games that people hate?

It's only because they had to dumb the game down to consoles that Tomb Raider has tank controls in the first place!
You always have complete control of Lara and her movements are very predictable
Translation: You have complete control of Lara except when the game takes it away from you (see: sliding platforms and monsters purposefully kept out of view who ambush and stun-lock you) and her movements are very predictable because they are pre-defined, there is no such thing as tapping the button lightly for a small jump/holding it down for a longer jump, there is just the one jump, and the game's not-so-successful efforts to integrate that one jump.

The "problem" isn't the controls themselves, it's the grid-like structure of the game and its levels, and how the controls respond to that.

you never have to guess whether she can make a jump or not, it becomes second nature very fast.
Trial and error, ad nauseum, do not a good game make.

I'll admit here right and now, 3rd-person platformers are not my cup of tea. Besides the Tomb Raider games, I think it's only the Psychonauts-games in this genre that I like and have played extensively... otherwise I avoid them. Especially the older ones.

The camera can be a bit annoying when you're backed against corners and such, but otherwise it's completely functional.
Considering the amount of precision platforming you have to do in this game, the times the player is backed against corners is roughly ALL THE TIME.

Next you'll be telling me Earthworm Jim 3D is a perfectly fine game with a perfectly functional camera.

You can control the camera directly with numpad zero too.
And the absolute shit-state this game was in if this wasn't in place would be even too much for you guys. It's not even near an acceptable solution, but it's better than nothing.

Complaints about clunkiness usually seem to come from people who are failing jumps because they didn't do the tutorial section. Hold shift to walk to edges without falling, release shift and tap back once to give yourself full running jump distance. If you master that, which takes approximately four seconds, you can clear every single part of the first two games.
Did you miss the part where I said I beat the games a long time ago? How do you think I did that if I skipped the gym in the ball room?

The reason I'm missing jumps is a mixture of the following:

# I can't see where I'm jumping to.
# I can't see properly when I'm supposed to jump.

Those are not faults of the controls, but the camera angles being shit.

The combination of the two, clunky controls and a stupid camera, is what drags these games down.

It is generally accepted that 3rd-person 3D games in the 90s had crap camera controls. For some reason I'm arguing with people who are defending that like the black eye they're nursing after talking with their spouse last night.

Mouthbreathing mammary-worshipping mongoloids, the lot of you.

(Thanks for giving me a venue to vent some rage, I feel much better after this.)
 
Joined
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Messages
1,091
Did you miss the part where I said I beat the games a long time ago? How do you think I did that if I skipped the gym in the ball room?

Some people become silly with age, as you demonstrate very well. At some point you though the games were good, you even claim to have completed them 100%, now 20 years later (I guess masterpieces like AssCreed opened your eyes) you think they're shit. Well, I'm sorry to say, the games haven't changed.
 

Lemming42

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Nov 4, 2012
Messages
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Location
The Satellite Of Love
her movements are very predictable because they are pre-defined, there is no such thing as tapping the button lightly for a small jump/holding it down for a longer jump, there is just the one jump, and the game's not-so-successful efforts to integrate that one jump.
This isn't even true, you have four different types of jumps - standing forward jump, running forward jump, backflip, and sideflip (though again, standing and running jumps are, I believe, sufficient to clear the first two games, albeit not with 100% secrets). You also technically have the weird mid-air flip in TR2 and TR3. The levels are designed on grids, and so are Lara's movements, which work consistently - she can jump about one and a half grid spaces in height, a running jump requires one full grid square of space, etc. Your task is to analyse each room you enter and figure out which combination of moves is appropriate to reach whichever location you think is the way forward. This is the appeal of the game.

No, obviously the game doesn't have holding down the button to do a super-mega jump, because the entire worldspace is designed around a precise, predictable moveset, in which every piece of level geometry is interacted with according to consistent rules. The point of the game is that you have the tools to clear any obstacle; after you master these tools (which takes five seconds and has the character you're playing as literally explain how to do it), the level designers can present you with various challenges and you'll decide which move is best to proceed.
 

soutaiseiriron

Educated
Joined
Aug 8, 2023
Messages
191
I replayed TR1 completely a couple of months ago. The camera can be a bit annoying when you're backed against corners and such, but otherwise it's completely functional. How are controls clunky? People never mention anything specific. They really betray too much about themselves with such comments.
Combat in close quarters against spammy enemies does test the limits of the controls, like those demons at the end of TR1.

It mostly just boils down to people not being able to apply the logic of the last 20 years of third person controls (i.e. dual analog) to a game that only used the d-pad for movement, and being largely unwilling to adapt to anything new even it if takes them just 10 or 20 minutes max. You see this elsewhere with things such as gyroscopic controls.
Don't get me wrong here though, this isn't to say bad controls don't exist. I think games like Goldeneye, Timesplitters and Metroid Prime control like shit, but it's not because I don't understand them, it's because I just think they're largely objectively worse to the modern standard and they don't add anything. But most people who don't like TR controls don't understand them to begin with, meaning they don't even understand the game so arguing with them is pretty futile.

tl;dr
dNl1A3T.gif


Trial and error, ad nauseum, do not a good game make.
There's literally two types of jumps that you can execute 99.9% of the time, running jump and standing jump. To execute a running jump, walk to the very edge of the tile, back up, run and jump. Unless you are inept at gauging depth, you can always know which jump requires which, it's not hard. There's no trial and error here.
 

flyingjohn

Arcane
Joined
May 14, 2012
Messages
2,968
Lawl the Epic Game Store got a newer build on launch day, and the rest still offer an old beta. You can't make this up.
Add to this the modders getting shafted by the publisher with pay shenanigans/withholding patches they made and juicy drama ahoy.
 

Semiurge

Cipher
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Asp Hole
Lawl the Epic Game Store got a newer build on launch day, and the rest still offer an old beta. You can't make this up.
Add to this the modders getting shafted by the publisher with pay shenanigans/withholding patches they made and juicy drama ahoy.

Wait... what?

Oh you were being speculative. None of that has actually happened with these.
 

TheHeroOfTime

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S-pain
It's true. The Epic store version is a more recent version with some better looking levels (Midas palace), lighting improvements and new content (Poses for the photo mode and shit like that). Is expected that the versions from the other plataforms will be updated soon.
 

Jenkem

その目、だれの目?
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Make the Codex Great Again! Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag. I helped put crap in Monomyth
You can control the camera directly with numpad zero too.

Complaints about clunkiness usually seem to come from people who are failing jumps because they didn't do the tutorial section. Hold shift to walk to edges without falling, release shift and tap back once to give yourself full running jump distance. If you master that, which takes approximately four seconds, you can clear every single part of the first two games.
also remember to hold the jump button down when doing the running jump like this
 

flyingjohn

Arcane
Joined
May 14, 2012
Messages
2,968
Anybody wanting to buy this i urge to wait. The EGS version might not be a newer build but actually the final fixed version other platforms aren't gonna get.

Aspyr has moved on to another game,Saber has been denied any further development and the modders can't talk about anything because of NDA.

Waiting for about a year should give you a idea about the definitive version. And no, you can't pirate the egs version because no pirates care about the platform if there is also a steam release.
 

Semiurge

Cipher
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Messages
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Asp Hole
Anybody wanting to buy this i urge to wait. The EGS version might not be a newer build but actually the final fixed version other platforms aren't gonna get.

Aspyr has moved on to another game,Saber has been denied any further development and the modders can't talk about anything because of NDA.

Waiting for about a year should give you a idea about the definitive version. And no, you can't pirate the egs version because no pirates care about the platform if there is also a steam release.

It's not going to be an exclusive version, otherwise Epic would have broadcasted that loud and clear. The NDA will expire eventually.
 

Lacrymas

Arcane
Joined
Sep 23, 2015
Messages
18,024
Pathfinder: Wrath
There are also rumors they are going to remaster 4 too, so I doubt they'll abandon this, especially if only Epic would get the most up-to-date version.
 

flyingjohn

Arcane
Joined
May 14, 2012
Messages
2,968
It's not going to be an exclusive version, otherwise Epic would have broadcasted that loud and clear
If Epic announced that, then Aspyr would be fucked because Steam would allow refunds regardless of playtime. They would lose the majority of pc sales quickly.
It is easier to take epic's money and release a exclusive version while keeping quiet.All they have to do is release a tomb 4-5 remastered announcement in a month and most people will forget about any "accusations".
 

Semiurge

Cipher
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Apr 11, 2020
Messages
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Asp Hole
It's not going to be an exclusive version, otherwise Epic would have broadcasted that loud and clear
If Epic announced that, then Aspyr would be fucked because Steam would allow refunds regardless of playtime. They would lose the majority of pc sales quickly.
It is easier to take epic's money and release a exclusive version while keeping quiet.All they have to do is release a tomb 4-5 remastered announcement in a month and most people will forget about any "accusations".

I hate what you're saying but can't help but to agree on how ingenious it all would be, in a sinister way.

But, Aspyr have more or less officially confirmed that they're working on a patch. If this patch makes all versions match what Epic has gotten so far, they will be absolved.
 

Jenkem

その目、だれの目?
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Make the Codex Great Again! Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag. I helped put crap in Monomyth
1709075240160.png


they are updating the dev builds according to steamdb.. it might be possible they mistakenly uploaded a half-finished update onto EGS while they are still working on it. the biggest issue is that the devs/publisher is dead silent about the situation and the longer they remain silent the more the conspiracy theories will grow
 

Semiurge

Cipher
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Asp Hole
View attachment 47074

they are updating the dev builds according to steamdb.. it might be possible they mistakenly uploaded a half-finished update onto EGS while they are still working on it. the biggest issue is that the devs/publisher is dead silent about the situation and the longer they remain silent the more the conspiracy theories will grow

Aspyr's never believed in PR. They're more "wham-bam thank you ma'am" in their approach.
 

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