Game News Torment: Tides of Numenera announced for PS4 and Xbox One, gets new trailer

[cherry blossom]

I think it's more the level design that has gone shit. Lately, few games spend time indoors and when they do, it is often not in a context where you would expect to find a mirror. And if you do, it usually is non-reflective, of course. Most of the games are spent outdoors. As such, plenty of games have water or otherwise ground reflections (such as on glossy surfaces).

I wonder if it is more complicated to do reflections on a wall than on ground surfaces.

 

[Morality Games]

I wasn't upset until the blithe line, "this doesn't affect..." when it is clear their entire development has been motivated by the desire to depart from the Infinity Engine and cRPGs whenever these elements serve as an impediment to expanding Torment's audience.

Doesn't that sort of remind you of another company that is controversial on this forum?

I think this was mean to be a response to me?

I guess I might be more worried if I hadn't already played the game. It's a PC RPG, it's going to be fine.

I really don't feel like I'm the Codexer who should be billed as a crusader against inXile or Torment. I did announce they were getting the bargain bin along with Electronic Arts, but that is the norm rather than the exception with me and is reflective of how I appraise games as products and services and how I appraise the companies that make them. I don't hate them, and there's no active spite or maliciousness on my part.

We have a megathread on, "What is an RPG?" that has never supplied (and can't supply) a conclusive answer to the question. We also have a top 70 list of Codex approved RPGs that (the community?) has billed as cRPGs when (most?) of them weren't PC exclusive and a lot of them were PC ports.

The real answer to this question is styles of RPG are broadly analogous to royal lineages ala the War of the Roses where a rival claimant to the throne can be both a third-cousin and a fourth-cousin to the sitting king and advance claims through both of those lineages (as the House of York did). Consoles and PCs and the games they support have always been part of the same inbred, extended family (NES was a computer, and the PS4 is definitely a computer). Controllers have also incorporated more buttons, enabling expanded interfaces.

The evolving nature of "engineering over time" makes the ultimate answer of what sets apart a console RPG and a computer RPG inherently undefinable. This is partly the case because games (like Morrowind) seem to become PC RPGs in virtue of their PC modding commnities -- ergo, Kotor and other console games become PC RPGs by adoption by players than production by companies.

The sum of this is that when you say "Torment is a PC RPG" I can't disagree.

However, the Torment kickstarter pitched can be interpreted as appealing to three things:

(a) as a Planescape successor
(b) as an Infinity Engine successor
(c) as a PC RPG

There are several obvious criticisms that can be checklisted against these three things, and there shouldn't be any need to go over them again.

 

[Deleted member 7219]

Good. I am glad console peasants will be able to play this game, so they can finally fucking understand what a real RPG is like. Not that Fallout 4 crap.

 

[Infinitron]

I think it's more the level design that has gone shit. Lately, few games spend time indoors and when they do, it is often not in a context where you would expect to find a mirror. And if you do, it usually is non-reflective, of course. Most of the games are spent outdoors. As such, plenty of games have water or otherwise ground reflections (such as on glossy surfaces).

I wonder if it is more complicated to do reflections on a wall than on a ground surfaces.

I've always thought a major reason why devs don't like mirror reflections is that your character just looks kind of goofy in them, moving around and jumping and shit. Water and glossy-type reflections are blurrier, vaguer and typically seen at an oblique angle, so not as bad?

 

[Roguey]

These days if you want a PC exclusive RPG with a budget of at least a few million, you have to stick with Obsidian and rtwp.

And it's not a console game, it's developed for PC.

Say that again after interacting with Wasteland 2: Director's Cut worse store UI.

 

[Latelistener]

I've always thought a major reason why devs don't like mirror reflections is that your character just looks kind of goofy in them, moving around and jumping and shit. Water and glossy-type reflections are blurrier, vaguer and typically seen at an oblique angle, so not as bad?

Obviously mirrors in video games cannot work by the same principle as in real life, and what you see instead is actually view from camera placed somehow so it works like reflection. I don't know, maybe there are other ways to implement this, but the thing is, I read that it's kinda costly (performance wise) to make, as you will have to render the whole scene.
As far as I remember Euro Truck Simulator even has settings for them, so instead of rendering it in original resolution, you can choose only, for example, 25% of it. A good performance boost, and a lot of blocks.

 

[mastroego]

Good. I am glad console peasants will be able to play this game, so they can finally fucking understand what a real RPG is like. Not that Fallout 4 crap.

You're assuming it'll be a "real" RPG and not a console game.

Anyway, at this rate I might stop hating console games. I'm playing Tomb Raider and while being popamole, it's made with care and I don't feel DECEIVED.
Honesty goes a long way, you know. At least you know what you pay for.

 

[Morality Games]

These days if you want a PC exclusive RPG with a budget of at least a few million, you have to stick with Obsidian and rtwp.

And it's not a console game, it's developed for PC.

Say that again after interacting with Wasteland 2: Director's Cut worse store UI.

I'm not saying that Pillars 2: Origins is a foregone conclusion (although Urquhart keeps returning to the dream of The Elder Pillars: Skyrim) , but if inXile is putting the cart before the horse on "consolizing" a game that was pitched as an Infinity Engine successor through crowdfunding I am very curious if Obsidian will wait until they have completed Pillars duology/trilogy/whatever before beginning the infusion of "decline" elements into the franchise.

The key point was that Obsidian never pledged in any sense that they were making a duology or trilogy of game that rely houseruled D&D, so they have a moral high ground on the system changes they want to make in the next iteration of the franchise.

After all, Pillars 2: Origins could easily sell 2-3 million copies across all platforms, and Obsidian owns that franchise and the majority of that profit. Even if it contentious because of the system changes (unlikely in the grand scheme of things -- there are probably more gamers overall who appreciate Origins throwbacks over Infinity Engine throwbacks) it would still handily sell 1-2 million copies.

Pillars of Eternity 2 on the other hand might be lucky to replicate half the success and lifetime sales of the original -- even if it is better and more polished.

That isn't a MG-endorsed prediction though, just a possibility. Obsidian may be less motivated to antagonize PC gamers because are enjoying a stronger position of financial security than inXile (probably is) at this specific moment.

 

[muschi.muscholini]

It's bloody well written. - Polygon

I have a bad feeling about this.

And why does the game look so weird? There are so many objects that don't seem to fit with the rest of the screen. This is especially obvious with the few good looking parts.

 

[Tuco Benedicto Pacifico]

When they are worrying about console market then decent is the best you will ever get, because they are just giving you the minimum they can to get your PC dollars so they can go after the ten times larger console market.

Well, that's their hope at least.
Then it inevitably turns out that people on consoles really, really don't give a shit about some of these games.

For anyone on neogaf writing "COOL, I FEEL EVEN MORE VALIDATED IN MY DECISION TO BUY A PS4" (with four exclamation marks) you'll have hundreds of thousands who will look at the trailer, call it "slow and boring with PS1 graphics" and move on to preorder the next Fallout 4 DLCs.

 

[a mod]

When they are worrying about console market then decent is the best you will ever get, because they are just giving you the minimum they can to get your PC dollars so they can go after the ten times larger console market.

Well, that's their hope at least.
Then it inevitably turns out that people on consoles really, really don't give a shit about some of these games.

For anyone on neogaf writing "COOL, I FEEL EVEN MORE VALIDATED IN MY DECISION TO BUY A PS4" (with four exclamation marks) you'll have hundreds of thousands who will look at the trailer, call it "slow and boring with PS1 graphics" and move on to preorder the next Fallout 4 DLCs.

Very true, but loyalty and common sense don't even seem to enter into it.

 

[mindx2]

Goodness gracious, reading the KS comments is sooooooooooo depressing. Almost everyone is, "Wow, great! I play mostly on consoles anyway so can I change to a PS4 copy?"

 

[Morality Games]

When they are worrying about console market then decent is the best you will ever get, because they are just giving you the minimum they can to get your PC dollars so they can go after the ten times larger console market.

Well, that's their hope at least.
Then it inevitably turns out that people on consoles really, really don't give a shit about some of these games.

For anyone on neogaf writing "COOL, I FEEL EVEN MORE VALIDATED IN MY DECISION TO BUY A PS4" (with four exclamation marks) you'll have hundreds of thousands who will look at the trailer, call it "slow and boring with PS1 graphics" and move on to preorder the next Fallout 4 DLCs.

This is possible, but not a foregone conclusion.

Planescape has a pretty broad legacy outside of its install base. I personally know of probably ten people who have heard of it (not from me) and listen appreciatively when they ask me to list its finer qualities after I mention that I've played it. Doesn't motivate them to play the game itself (they are too casual to go digging for games released decades ago), but they would play a game "like that" if it fell in the ordinary range of their gaming interests (new release, their platform of choice, lots of discussion IGN, etc).

Console players have illustrated they were willing to play turn based games in smaller proportions than PC gamers, however -- smaller proportions are still proportions.

Or to put in another way, if any of these KickStarter RPGs can "go viral" on consoles and duplicate or surpass their PC equivalents in sales than Torment: Tides of Numenera is the one most qualified to pull it off.

 

[Russia is over. The end.]

I don't see what you're complaining about in this thread.

- They're not "wasting resources", because it likely compiles for consoles rather easily.
- They can make a UI for PC and a special UI for consoles. Takes 2-3 days max.

No problem.

 

[Roguey]

- They can make a UI for PC and a special UI for consoles. Takes 2-3 days max.

Wonder why they didn't have a separate shopping interface for Wasteland 2: DC then.

 

[kazgar]

explains that switch to a specific hp pool.

 

[80Maxwell08]

Well this makes me kinda worry. Considering I was stupid enough to put in $635 into it though, I should have expected disappointment anyway I guess. I just hope it's at least well written and well designed. Also, after suffering the NWN2 engine through MotB, not crash prone, buggy or constantly script breaking.

 

[Viata]

And I'm glad I didn't back this game neither bought it on steam. This game can wait a long time before I try to play it.

 

[Fenix]

a game "like that" if it fell in the ordinary range of their gaming interests (new release, their platform of choice, lots of discussion IGN, etc).

A flock of sheep - the only image that came to mind.

 

[Ellef]

There is no button sufficient enough to press for the decline in the OP.

 

[Russia is over. The end.]

- They can make a UI for PC and a special UI for consoles. Takes 2-3 days max.

Wonder why they didn't have a separate shopping interface for Wasteland 2: DC then.

Because W2 is shit and they didn't care anymore. Just wanted to milk those dumb console brats.

Also for a forum that gets off by playing Witcher 3 which features pure console UI, the reaction to the news seems at least phony.

 

[oldmanpaco]

- They can make a UI for PC and a special UI for consoles. Takes 2-3 days max.

Wonder why they didn't have a separate shopping interface for Wasteland 2: DC then.

Because W2 is shit and they didn't care anymore. Just wanted to milk those dumb console brats.

Also for a forum that gets off by playing Witcher 3 which features pure console UI, the reaction to the news seems at least phony.

Well everyone knew W3 was a console game going in. They sure as hell didn't mention this was a console game in the KS pitch.

edit: Holy shit I pledged $135 for this.

WTF was I drinking back in 2013?

 

[abnaxus]

Crooked Brian.

 

[Nihiliste]

The visual aesthetic is pretty damn ugly
Console release is massive decline
Knowing his history I'm sure this is the last real attempt at a built for PC game from Fargo if he can help it

 

[Grauken]

well, Planescape Torment is already known as a jRPG on the Codex, inXile only goes the next consequent step with their sequel