Torment Torment: Tides of Numenera Pre-Release Thread [ALPHA RELEASED, GO TO NEW THREAD]

[Athelas]

Oh god no.

 

[LESS T_T]

Torment opening cinematic...

...featuring Guido Henkel.

Spoiler

 

[Deleted member 7219]

I've thrown in an extra $10 to bring my pledge up to $60 in total.

They really should be careful with these new stretch goals though. They aren't Star Citizen, unfortunately. I really wish they had the kind of word of mouth that SC has, but the major gaming sites just aren't interested.

 

[Cazzeris]

PS:T opening movie was awesome.

 

[Blaine]

Does someone have a source for the game's projected length/playtime? I seem to remember an estimate of between 40-60 hours.

I'm not a size queen per se, but I do wonder how the official estimate of a dozen Crises "or so" (the source for that is easy; it's right there on the official site) would fit into such a long game. For example, if the game's about 60 hours long and has 15 Crises, that's one Crisis every four hours.

That is a ton of exploration and dialog between each Crisis.

 

[<3sRichardSimmons]

Does someone have a source for the game's projected length/playtime? I seem to remember an estimate of between 40-60 hours.

I'm not a size queen per se, but I do wonder how the official estimate of a dozen Crises "or so" (the source for that is easy; it's right there on the official site) would fit into such a long game. For example, if the game's about 60 hours long and has 15 Crises, that's one Crisis every four hours.

That is a ton of exploration and dialog between each Crisis.

Your math is flawed because you are not taking the length of crises into account.

Who's to say the average crisis does not consume 2 hours of gameplay time?

 

[Blaine]

Your math is flawed because you are not taking the length of crises into account.

Who's to say the average crisis does not consume 2 hours of gameplay time?

You're making assumptions, there. I am taking the length of Crises into account, although my estimate was that they might be about an hour long on average. Whether they average one hour or two (or less, or even more), it's all speculation at this point.

What I want to know is whether or not there's a reliable source for an estimate of the game's length. I know I read or heard 40-60 somewhere, but the relatively small number of Crises has caused me to doubt that number, so I'm asking if there's an official estimate.

 

[<3sRichardSimmons]

it's all speculation at this point.

Yes, that is what I was trying to point out. Glad we're in agreement.

What I want to know is whether or not there's a reliable source for an estimate of the game's length. I know I read or heard 40-60 somewhere, but the relatively small number of Crises has caused me to doubt that number, so I'm asking if there's an official estimate.

I don't know that I've seen them cite a specific aim for hour-length. I do seem to recall an RPS interview where they said they were shooting for a total gameplay time around that of PS:T's (RPS is currently on my blacklist, so I can't be fucked to cite this- lololololojournalism).

I understand concerns about pacing when a game announces it is only going to have around 12 combat encounters, but it's certainly more understandable given the context: that the combat in the game's spiritual predecessor is almost universally reviled and considered to be far too frequent, devoid of strategy or tactics and, most sinfully, fucking boring.
It seems like InXile is pretty confident in their writers' ability to deliver, so from their point of view the worst case scenario would be:
A) Story is great / Crises suck shit

Result: Game is remembered for being a true sequel to PS:T.

or

B) Story is great / Crises provide significantly more engaging risk-oriented gameplay than PS:T

Result: Game is remembered for refining and improving upon the merits of PS:T

Whether or not InXile's confidence in their writing team is well-placed is, of course, up for debate (although I will voice my own bias and say that I have been impressed by all the lore docs I've seen thus far).

 

[Blaine]

You're defending Torment to the wrong guy, here. I pledged $1,000 to the T:ToN Kickstarter on the first or second day it went active:

I upped this to $2,000 when they chose TB over RTwP. Such delicious Biodrone tears, can't put a price on those.

If there's no official estimate of game length, then there's no official estimate. I do believe they're shooting for a "full-length" RPG, though, as your memory of that interview indicates. It's just difficult to imagine, for example, three straight hours of exploration and dialog (on average) between each Crisis. That strikes me as something more along the lines of the longest adventure game ever made, with the addition of handcrafted combat/obstacle courses added in here and there.

No RPG or adventure game yet made, including Codex darlings, has managed 50 hours of zero filler and nothing but quality, hand-crafted content. There's always been some inventory fiddling, some trash mobs, stuff of that nature. If they pull this off, it will be a first.

 

[StaticSpine]

Does someone have a source for the game's projected length/playtime? I seem to remember an estimate of between 40-60 hours.

I'm not a size queen per se, but I do wonder how the official estimate of a dozen Crises "or so" (the source for that is easy; it's right there on the official site) would fit into such a long game. For example, if the game's about 60 hours long and has 15 Crises, that's one Crisis every four hours.

That is a ton of exploration and dialog between each Crisis.

I believe we can only judge by this:

by Adam Heine » January 8th, 2014, 5:37 pm
Good question! I wish I could give you an answer in terms of # of hours, as that would make this really simple.

We did hit the Longer Story stretch goal, and that has enabled us to convert many story ideas that were B-priority back into A-priority (meaning we will make the time to do them; B means we'll do them if we can create and polish all the A stuff). "Short-ish" was a relative term I used in comparison to, say, Baldur's Gate (which was like an 80+-hour game and sort of set the standard for CRPG length at the time).

All I can say is that Torment won't be long (like BG), but it won't be as short as, say, Shadowrun Returns. I wish I could be more precise, but it's still too early to say at this point.

https://forums.inxile-entertainment.com//viewtopic.php?f=35&t=5599&start=20#p93239

So I'd actually like this kind of length: 20-30 hours to complete, but lots of variety on playthroughs. And BTW I noted the time for my last two PST runs - 23 and 27 hours (including most of the optional stuff).

You're defending Torment to the wrong guy, here. I pledged $1,000 to the T:ToN Kickstarter on the first or second day it went active:

I upped this to $2,000 when they chose TB over RTwP. Such delicious Biodrone tears, can't put a price on those.

If there's no official estimate of game length, then there's no official estimate. I do believe they're shooting for a "full-length" RPG, though, as your memory of that interview indicates. It's just difficult to imagine, for example, three straight hours of exploration and dialog (on average) between each Crisis. That strikes me as something more along the lines of the longest adventure game ever made, with the addition of handcrafted combat/obstacle courses added in here and there.

No RPG or adventure game yet made, including Codex darlings, has managed 50 hours of zero filler and nothing but quality, hand-crafted content. There's always been some inventory fiddling, some trash mobs, stuff of that nature. If they pull this off, it will be a first.

For your pledges bro!

And I'd be glad if inXile bros manage to remove all the filler stuff from the game. Quality over quantity!

 

[tuluse]

There is some discussion of length here:

http://www.rpgcodex.net/forums/index.php?threads/torment-tides-of-numenera-crisis-concept.87059/

I don't think they're worrying too much about "hours of play".

 

[Blaine]

I think they are, just a bit, as evidenced by Heine's estimate and Saunders' "concerns that this could be too few" comment:

4. I can appreciate the skepticism of our pulling this off. =) The idea is one thing, but the execution is where the challenge is. Part of the approach we’re taking here is to restrain our ambition in terms of quantity. For example, suppose there were just a dozen or so Crises in a standard playthrough, averaging perhaps 20-30 minutes of gameplay each. With this limited number of these hand-crafted set pieces to design and implement, we could be much more ambitious in terms of their quality (including how much C&C each provides). We have some concerns that this could be too few, but are inclined to favor quality. Then we can strive to get ahead so that we can implement more with much less risk to quality.

Additionally, there we have a developer throwing out a rough estimate of, perhaps, 20-30 minutes per Crisis as well. That seems just about right for a combat, environmental hazard, or emergency situation. They may well be longer than that in the actual game, but gives us a hint of what the developers may have in mind.

If the game length is projected to lie somewhere between Shadowrun Returns (15 hours, if you take your time) and Baldur's Gate (realistically around 70 hours, if you take your time), then 30-40 hours seems likely, in the sense that I doubt it'll be shorter than 30 or much longer than 40.

Length is often poo-pooed as being a relatively unimportant measurement of an RPG, and in many ways it is, but generally speaking, the longer the better. In my experience, an RPG that can be finished in a weekend (of not playing 16+ hours per day) will feel as though it's over before it's even properly begun, and 20 hours or fewer is definitely skirting that danger zone. So, I'm crossing my fingers for 30-40 hours.

 

[StaticSpine]

There is some discussion of length here:

http://www.rpgcodex.net/forums/index.php?threads/torment-tides-of-numenera-crisis-concept.87059/

I don't think they're worrying too much about "hours of play".

Yup, and they shouldn't bother, their priority is to deliver the RPG Renaissance not the most lengthy game.

I think they are, just a bit, as evidenced by Heine's estimate and Saunders' "concerns that this could be too few" comment:

4. I can appreciate the skepticism of our pulling this off. =) The idea is one thing, but the execution is where the challenge is. Part of the approach we’re taking here is to restrain our ambition in terms of quantity. For example, suppose there were just a dozen or so Crises in a standard playthrough, averaging perhaps 20-30 minutes of gameplay each. With this limited number of these hand-crafted set pieces to design and implement, we could be much more ambitious in terms of their quality (including how much C&C each provides). We have some concerns that this could be too few, but are inclined to favor quality. Then we can strive to get ahead so that we can implement more with much less risk to quality.

Additionally, there we have a developer throwing out a rough estimate of, perhaps, 20-30 minutes per crisis as well. That seems just about right for a combat, environmental hazard, or emergency situation. They may well be longer than that in the final game, but it's something to go on.

If the game length is projected to lie somewhere between Shadowrun Returns (15 hours, if you take your time) and Baldur's Gate (realistically around 70 hours, if you take your time), then 30-40 hours seems likely, in the sense that I doubt it'll be shorter than 30 or much longer than 40.

Length is often poo-pooed as being a relatively unimportant measurement of an RPG, and in many ways it is, but generally speaking, the longer the better. In my experience, an RPG that can be finished in a weekend will feel as though it's over before it's even properly begun, and 20 hours or fewer is definitely skirting that danger zone. So, I'm crossing my fingers for 30-40 hours.

Still, the playtime is differs for players. Can't tell why.

I've completed SRR in 11 hours 20 minutes, I swear I've read all the dialogs and made all of the optional stuff And I liked the fact the game felt focused around the storyline, it had not much content, but still I liked it, mostly because of the detective-style beginning, the later bug stuff was not so cool.

And from about 70 hour long D:OS I'd cut half of the filler encounters and I'd become even better, I think it was too much.

For TToN iirc there were indeed promised something about a dozen crises. I'm totally okay with that, because every crisis has multiple ways of solving it and even different solutions for parts of it.

 

[Roguey]

lol @ the idea of anyone wanting to read and walk around for dozens of hours

As JES says, making any kind of estimates regarding game length until you know for sure is just asking for trouble.

 

[Stainless Veteran]

Upped my pledge to hundred bucks total, my biggest pre-order/kickstarter pledge yet. It's not much, but for poor Russian like me it's a hefty sum to spend on a game.

Come on, InXile, give us

 

[Jedi Master Radek]

Upped my pledge to hundred bucks total, my biggest pre-order/kickstarter pledge yet. It's not much, but for poor Russian like me it's a hefty sum to spend on a game.

Come on, InExile, give us

Look! Only 9 dolars to the new level! Can you resist it?

 

[Avellion]

I upped this to $2,000 when they chose TB over RTwP. Such delicious Biodrone tears, can't put a price on those.

If there's no official estimate of game length, then there's no official estimate. I do believe they're shooting for a "full-length" RPG, though, as your memory of that interview indicates. It's just difficult to imagine, for example, three straight hours of exploration and dialog (on average) between each Crisis. That strikes me as something more along the lines of the longest adventure game ever made, with the addition of handcrafted combat/obstacle courses added in here and there.

No RPG or adventure game yet made, including Codex darlings, has managed 50 hours of zero filler and nothing but quality, hand-crafted content. There's always been some inventory fiddling, some trash mobs, stuff of that nature. If they pull this off, it will be a first.

2000 dollars, nice. But then again, incline in this decline ridden world is priceless. Games like this is the Chemo against the cancer that is BioWare games and all the other lame excuses for RPGs shat out by the AAA industry.

 

[Stainless Veteran]

Upped my pledge to hundred bucks total, my biggest pre-order/kickstarter pledge yet. It's not much, but for poor Russian like me it's a hefty sum to spend on a game.

Come on, InXile, give us

Look! Only 9 dolars to the new level! Can you resist it?

 

[Ninjerk]

I think they are, just a bit, as evidenced by Heine's estimate and Saunders' "concerns that this could be too few" comment:

4. I can appreciate the skepticism of our pulling this off. =) The idea is one thing, but the execution is where the challenge is. Part of the approach we’re taking here is to restrain our ambition in terms of quantity. For example, suppose there were just a dozen or so Crises in a standard playthrough, averaging perhaps 20-30 minutes of gameplay each. With this limited number of these hand-crafted set pieces to design and implement, we could be much more ambitious in terms of their quality (including how much C&C each provides). We have some concerns that this could be too few, but are inclined to favor quality. Then we can strive to get ahead so that we can implement more with much less risk to quality.

Additionally, there we have a developer throwing out a rough estimate of, perhaps, 20-30 minutes per Crisis as well. That seems just about right for a combat, environmental hazard, or emergency situation. They may well be longer than that in the actual game, but gives us a hint of what the developers may have in mind.

If the game length is projected to lie somewhere between Shadowrun Returns (15 hours, if you take your time) and Baldur's Gate (realistically around 70 hours, if you take your time), then 30-40 hours seems likely, in the sense that I doubt it'll be shorter than 30 or much longer than 40.

Length is often poo-pooed as being a relatively unimportant measurement of an RPG, and in many ways it is, but generally speaking, the longer the better. In my experience, an RPG that can be finished in a weekend (of not playing 16+ hours per day) will feel as though it's over before it's even properly begun, and 20 hours or fewer is definitely skirting that danger zone. So, I'm crossing my fingers for 30-40 hours.

I think game length is more important in storyfag games like this. Character development really benefits from long subplots.

 

[Blaine]

When I was younger, I used to hate reading short stories (except for Poe, Lovecraft, and Howard) for that reason. Hey cool characters, wow, okay they did something, the end, I'm gonna smoke now, you want one?

It's the reader's equivalent of what a woman feels like when a dude blows his load after about two minutes.

Once I got older and was able to appreciate stories for more than their entertainment value (and had gotten much cleverer at spotting subtleties, noticing foreshadowing, etc.), then I was able to enjoy short stories more.

 

[jdinatale]

How does someone have $2000 in disposable income to fund a game with?

You sir must have worked very hard in school and have a very well-paying job.

 

[Doctor Sbaitso]

The older I get the more important writing style becomes for me - equally important as subject matter or story.

 

[Blaine]

How does someone have $2000 in disposable income to fund a game with?

You sir must have worked very hard in school and have a very well-paying job.

White-collar salary, single, no children, inheritance and some savings will cover retirement (in theory; what nightmares may come in the next 30-40 years is anyone's guess).

Realistically though, that $2,000 is money I didn't spend on all the good computer games that didn't come out since the year 2000. $60 per game, three times a year, for thirteen years is almost $2,400.

 

[Infinitron]

http://www.adamheine.com/2014/10/q-gold-novella-available-anywhere-else.html

Q&A: Gold Novella available anywhere else?

Bester says:

Sigh... Are you planning on selling "From the Depths" on any site at all, separately from other guys?​

Not at this time.

So first, the Gold novella was written as a work-for-hire, which means all the rights to it belong to inXile and not to me. So "I" (Adam) will not be selling the novella anywhere because contractually I cannot.

"We" (inXile) do not currently have any plans to sell the Gold novella -- nor the other novellas in the From the Depths compilation -- in any way beyond how you can get them now. That doesn't mean we won't sell them on Amazon or something after Torment ships, it just means there are currently no plans to.

I will say that $15 for seven novellas is a pretty good deal, especially with some of the authors involved. If you're at all interested in Torment or in Numenera, I'd say (biased though I am) that it's well worth it.

Problem, Bester?

 

[Abu Antar]

They can probably be found for "free" on the net. Although I actually paid for them.

It's good to see that we will actually reach the goal this time. That way, we don't have to ask ourselves if they would include the Gullet if they fell short of a few $1000.