Game News Tortured Hearts is a successor to the NWN module series over twelve years in the making

[aweigh]

This game was made for the Fluent-type RPG-er.

 

[Skdursh]

If one was going to play this should they play the original 2 intallments first?

I doubt it. If that was the case then the developer would essentially be asking you to not only buy their game, but to buy another game (that has nothing to do with them besides having once made a mod for it) as well.

 

[<3sRichardSimmons]

Congratulations to Subbassman; truly a Herculean effort to have completed this after so long. I know I played the original TH modules back in the day, but I can't remember anything about them besides thinking they were some of the better ones around. Not playing any vidya during Lent, but if this gets a decent response from the community I will seriously consider picking it up come Easter.

 

[SubBassman]

If one was going to play this should they play the original 2 intallments first?

Those who played the mods will find some references and recognize a few NPCs. Not essential to play this.

 

[Excommunicator]

Your association with Fluent will bury you

 

[commie]

I'm glad to hear that some people get upset when a guy asks for $40 for a game it took him 12+ years to finish because I thought such retards exist only in Poland. I'm relieved.

People here raged at the price of Grimoire which was the same and took Cleve about 20 years to finish....so it's nothing new.

Just a natural result of AAA devs selling their stuff for 20-30 dollars on release or soon after and at the other end mobile shit and shovelware being 'free' or almost free. What in the 90's as a 'shareware' would have been 10-40 dollars(back then), is actually sold for less in absolute and relative terms than in those times, yet it still looks 'overpriced' in comparison to other things.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

I'm glad to hear that some people get upset when a guy asks for $40 for a game it took him 12+ years to finish because I thought such retards exist only in Poland. I'm relieved.

People here raged at the price of Grimoire which was the same and took Cleve about 20 years to finish....so it's nothing new.

Just a natural result of AAA devs selling their stuff for 20-30 dollars on release or soon after and at the other end mobile shit and shovelware being 'free' or almost free. What in the 90's as a 'shareware' would have been 10-40 dollars(back then), is actually sold for less in absolute and relative terms than in those times, yet it still looks 'overpriced' in comparison to other things.

The market has grown exponentially since the 90s and it costs nothing to create more copies of a digital product.
If we want to compare to prices paid in the 90s while keeping this in mind, video games are massively overpriced.

 

[OracleX]

Maybe keep it in, but seriously consider just normal First Person controls as an option.

pretty much this

 

[aweigh]

Those who played the mods will find some references and recognize a few NPCs. Not essential to play this.

There any way to speed up the combat in your game?

 

[SubBassman]

Those who played the mods will find some references and recognize a few NPCs. Not essential to play this.

There any way to speed up the combat in your game?

Yes. Under the Round label there are the +/- buttons. Default is 5, max is 10.

 

[gurugeorge]

Naturally, I admire the effort, and wish the developer well, but I'm allergic to that kind of self-referential humour unfortunately.

Also, my sense from observing game development over the years is that developers who stray too far out of current conventions (especially for avatar control, character creation, etc.) are making a rod for their own backs. I also think the developer would sell a lot more units if he lowered the price drastically (to $10-15). Very few people are going to pay $40 for a punt, when there are lots of cheaper and even free alternatives around that don't have barriers to muscle memory, etc.

Still, it seems the developer is bloody-minded enough that he doesn't care. I hope I'm wrong and that he has a breakout hit!

 

[CappenVarra]

spending decades to make the game you want - and damn the torpedoes! - is the mark of a gentleman

expecting people to give you money for the game you spent decades making because you wanted it is - unfortunately - the mark of naivety; your soul still has remaining capacity for suffering, and it will be exceeded if you continue down this path (you have my sympathies if you do)

listening to fluent though - that right there (dude!) is the mark of "what the hell is wrong with you"

p.s. you didn't give him heroin money did you?

 

[lukaszek]

tried demo, couldnt grab my attention for longer than 5 min. Got short attention span, game better offer something flashy/interesting quickly

 

[luj1]

I played the original module back in the day, it was great, a hall of fame module.

But wtf is this??? Looks absolutely horrible. Like a chinese MMO for mobiles

 

[Poseidon00]

Imagine how many great NWN modules he could have made in this time. I would have actually paid him for it via patreon

 

[commie]

I'm glad to hear that some people get upset when a guy asks for $40 for a game it took him 12+ years to finish because I thought such retards exist only in Poland. I'm relieved.

People here raged at the price of Grimoire which was the same and took Cleve about 20 years to finish....so it's nothing new.

Just a natural result of AAA devs selling their stuff for 20-30 dollars on release or soon after and at the other end mobile shit and shovelware being 'free' or almost free. What in the 90's as a 'shareware' would have been 10-40 dollars(back then), is actually sold for less in absolute and relative terms than in those times, yet it still looks 'overpriced' in comparison to other things.

The market has grown exponentially since the 90s and it costs nothing to create more copies of a digital product.
If we want to compare to prices paid in the 90s while keeping this in mind, video games are massively overpriced.

I don't really agree with that as it's the labour of creation that defines the value of the product, not the packaging itself. Even 20+ years ago they were still making copies of the same product, only that they would be forced to physically distribute it. Just because you don't need to burn games onto disks or CD's and package them with manuals, that saving on paper and plastic is offset by wage growth and inflation over the last 20 years.

PS. I'm not saying that every RPG maker shit should be valued at 40 dollars here, but the developer should not be pilloried for trying to price their product at a level they feel justifies the result. If they miscalculate then it's their problem and their loss.

 

[The_Mask]

Imagine how many great NWN modules he could have made in this time. I would have actually paid him for it via patreon

Imagine how it would be like if you didn't post every little sarcastic thing that went through your head. I would actually pay you not to do it.

 

[Poseidon00]

I'm not being sarcastic. His NWN modules were quality.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

I'm glad to hear that some people get upset when a guy asks for $40 for a game it took him 12+ years to finish because I thought such retards exist only in Poland. I'm relieved.

People here raged at the price of Grimoire which was the same and took Cleve about 20 years to finish....so it's nothing new.

Just a natural result of AAA devs selling their stuff for 20-30 dollars on release or soon after and at the other end mobile shit and shovelware being 'free' or almost free. What in the 90's as a 'shareware' would have been 10-40 dollars(back then), is actually sold for less in absolute and relative terms than in those times, yet it still looks 'overpriced' in comparison to other things.

The market has grown exponentially since the 90s and it costs nothing to create more copies of a digital product.
If we want to compare to prices paid in the 90s while keeping this in mind, video games are massively overpriced.

I don't really agree with that as it's the labour of creation that defines the value of the product, not the packaging itself. Even 20+ years ago they were still making copies of the same product, only that they would be forced to physically distribute it. Just because you don't need to burn games onto disks or CD's and package them with manuals, that saving on paper and plastic is offset by wage growth and inflation over the last 20 years.

PS. I'm not saying that every RPG maker shit should be valued at 40 dollars here, but the developer should not be pilloried for trying to price their product at a level they feel justifies the result. If they miscalculate then it's their problem and their loss.

It was still distributed in a digital format 20 years ago, the difference I'm pointing out is that the market size has grown exponentially. For each copy a comparable game sold in 2000, a 2021 title is selling anywhere between 5-30 copies. Baldur's Gate 2 sold just under 200,000 copies in 2000(about 4 months on the market.) It was a smash hit at the time. All sources I can find point towards it having a development cost of $5 million.

Coincidentally, Divinity: Original Sin 2 -- by all means a high budget indie game -- released near the same calendar date in 2017. It sold 700,000 copies in the first month. It hit a million by November, and likely saw a nice holiday boom(but I can't find any stats to back that up.) It has a very, very long tail and is still selling well across multiple platforms now. Divinity: Original Sin (the original, not 2) cost 4.5 million euros to make. DOS2 definitely cost more, but probably not that much -- I can't find any definitive statements though. It probably wouldn't be unfair to say when adjusted for inflation, they(DOS2, BG2) had a similar development cost, with DOS2 probably costing more to develop. DOS2 also took a good deal longer to create than BG2 did, FYI.

Baldur's Gate 2 cost $49.99 at release, or about $71 2017 dollars.
Now I must ask: do you think it is unfair that Divinity: Original Sin 2 sold for $44.99 in 2017 dollars? That, despite their game likely costing a bit more to develop and taking longer to develop, it sold for nearly half as much per unit? Was Larian being wronged here?

A product that you can create an infinite amount of copies of for nothing -- infinite supply -- will not be priced like a regular, physical good that has a finite supply. This is interesting because it's the inverse of an actual physical good: there can never be too much demand for a digital product. Inelastic supply, highly elastic demand.
From this, we can deduce that there are two major parts in pricing a video game:
The value of the product potential buyers place on it and
The original cost of producing the product that is completely detached from demand as it costs nothing to create copies of it.

A larger market size lets you distribute the cost of developing the product over more sales, meaning the optimal price will trend towards its actual value as the market size increases. The value consumers place on a product will decrease with competition. Following this, we -- perhaps counterintuitively -- get cheaper video games in 2021 than in 2000, but developers end up making more profit.
When developers complain that there is too much competition, they are overlooking that it also comes with increased market sizes.

---

The people saying the game costs too much are trying to get the developer more overall profit. We are not insulting him or trying to take money away from him. He can price his product however he wishes, we're merely pointing out that we don't believe it is a good reflection of the value potential buyers would place on it.


[edit]
and yes, infinitron, this is directly related to the topic at hand before you split us into a separate thread. We're discussing our viewpoints on the game's price.

 

[KeighnMcDeath]

Most games even back in the c64 days, I'd wait quite a while before purchasing unless there was exclusive physical content that I knew only went around on certain releases.

 

[Drowed]

[edit]
and yes, infinitron, this is directly related to the topic at hand before you split us into a separate thread. We're discussing our viewpoints on the game's price.

I can already see his hands shaking.

 

[Mortmal]

To watch the trailer there's an age disclaimer cause... nothing there's absolutely nothing , disapointing. Then i tried the demo...
I wasn't ready, i wasn't ready for this. On the codex there's a few developpers posting, some very successful even with one of the most sold android game , then there's a special cast of developpers , the like of cleve, pierre begue , and now zoltan : nutjobs.

First impression, you start to pick very ugly characters nothing to design at all, men are stronger women more clever (err wait ?!) , then you are thrown into a crystal room with the most unintuitive UI ever .After setting up skills , you are thrown into a pitch dark room with barely any clue about what to do, i stop there for now.Will eventually muster some strengh, food and try to delve deeper later .

The UI is designed by aliens , a game that play like a psychedelic experience , but of course !!!!
A sudden realization came to my mind, this game was designed for fluent, fluent a living sponge of chemical substances, then it all made sense, i was in his world i was in his head., i was living the life of fluent . One of the weirdest experience in my life.

 

[KeighnMcDeath]

What? ???

 

[waken]

Don't buy the game until you have tried the demo. It covers 1/3 of the game for free. (save games are incompatible though)

If possible, I would prioritize making them compatible. A third of a 200 hour game is not something I'd want to replay, even if it was very good.

Kudos on finishing this.

 

[ShaggyMoose]

If possible, I would prioritize making them compatible. A third of a 200 hour game is not something I'd want to replay, even if it was very good.

This. If someone really enjoyed the demo, they are going to want to buy the full version and continue playing, not start again.