Warhammer Total War: Warhammer 2

[Maculo]

The Malus campaign is crazy in a good way imo. Based on the video below in spoilers:
-The 50% upkeep reduction from the Hag Graef landmark only works for armies within the province. It is still useful, but if you move your army outside of the province (i.e., to rush Malekith), then you lose the upkeep reduction.
- Every ritual trigger causes a skaven army to spawn next to Malus. Each army spawn will represent a specific Skaven clan after Malus. In addition to the army spawn, that specific Skaven faction declares war on you (Queek Headtaker is nearby).
-Malus has strong banners/followers that are characters from the books. Tz'arkan's Whispers award Silar (+armor penetration), the spirit of Lhunara (snipe, stalk, and unspottable to a unit), etc. I want to see Hauclir.
-Gift of the Witch King grants Malus a hero of his choice every 20 turns. The level of the hero depends on how many provinces Malekith controls (?). You could use this rite to obtain a sorceress and/or Death Hag a.s.a.p.
-Full possession also causes a loyalty debuff, where every lord has a chance to lose 1 loyalty each turn. The guy in the video below brought up that assassin heroes have a loyalty trait, and so you could embed an assassin with each lord to counter the loyalty debuff from full possession. Still, creating additional armies could be a slow process.
-Malus seems designed to screw with blob fights or close formations, where you can use Daemon's Curse to reduce melee defense, or use Tz'arkan to burst it down (with risk).

I think the optimal start is to: surrender Hag Graef for gold; gets slaves to use Gift of the Witch King for an early sorceress or death hag; focus on replenishment (Elven Healing on Malus, Death Hag, Black Ark, etc.); develop the black ark for a cheap early army and recruitment (Black Ark armies get massive upkeep reduction); focus on defense/growth in your first province; and let Malus go full possession for ward save.

I will be interested in seeing all the unique followers and items Malus receives from Tz'arkan's whispers. I suspect those will allow for interesting strategies. For example, if I understand the Spirit of Lhunara correctly, you could place that on the pegasus RoR and freely shoot at an enemy lord or caster without being spotted. I wonder if it would work on Medusa and other monsters.

Spoiler

 

[Average Manatee]

Oh shit, the -50% reinforcement applies to all armies, not just his army. That's possible the worst debuff in the game then. I think you never want to go near max naturally in that case. Press the full posession, have him solo a tough enemy stack, drink the potion.

 

[Average Manatee]

Apparently Eshin has some serious bullshit. Does CA have a furry in charge of design or something? Skaven seem to just constantly get OP stuff. Skip to around 21 mins in to hear how it works.

 

[Maculo]

Oh shit, the -50% reinforcement applies to all armies, not just his army. That's possible the worst debuff in the game then. I think you never want to go near max naturally in that case. Press the full posession, have him solo a tough enemy stack, drink the potion.

But then you need to chug potions, which apparently adds up quickly.

The impression I got it that you really want to perform Tzarkan’s Whispers to obtain powerful equipment and banners.

Clan Eshin seems easy in comparison.

 

[Average Manatee]

Paying for a ~1k potion every 10ish turns sounds kind of ignorable, assuming that that's about where it caps out at in cost. That's 100 gold per turn or roughly the upkeep of your average T1 trash unit. If the cost keeps going up and you hit 10k potions or something then that'll be pretty bad.

 

[Maculo]

Paying for a ~1k potion every 10ish turns sounds kind of ignorable, assuming that that's about where it caps out at in cost. That's 100 gold per turn or roughly the upkeep of your average T1 trash unit. If the cost keeps going up and you hit 10k potions or something then that'll be pretty bad.

Edit: The video below explains it better. You can indeed decrease possession by standing in a city, but you also increase possession by simply using demonic abilities in battle. The potion only reduces possession by 10 points.

 

[Fedora Master]

The Eshin mission thing is literally just the system from Three Kingdoms.
Not that it's bad but... you know...

 

[tabacila]

Honestly, it's sad I'm happy they're doing even this bare minimum...

 

[Raghar]

I dunno how other people play on Legendary or Very Hard but my gameplan can basically be summarized as:

I don't play on legendary, very hard. I just try to not abuse AI and have variety of units, to have interesting playtrough.

 

[Maculo]

Lol, Malus in the Mortal Empire campaign will be on a crash course against the blue tide of Dawi. It's going to be a true underdog campaign.

 

[Raghar]

Lol, Malus in the Mortal Empire campaign will be on a crash course against the blue tide of Dawi. It's going to be a true underdog campaign.

Well you decided to have malus right? So obviously you'd be at malus.

 

[tabacila]

Patch notes: https://www.totalwar.com/blog/total-war-warhammer-ii-the-potion-of-speed-update/

Glad to see quests for hidden legendary items will now finally trigger consistently.
Also nice to see more basic units moved to the settlement chain.

 

[Maculo]

Something I missed was that the vortex rituals for Malus are automatic, meaning once you hit the scroll threshold Malekith will perform the ritual and a skaven army will spawn next to Malus. Unlike the main Vortex campaigns, you cannot hold off on the rituals until you have a better army, tech, and buffs. It seems like CA listened with respect to how stale the Vortex campaign could become, especially once you figure out that you could simply hold off on rituals

 

[Average Manatee]

That doesn't sound good. Vortex campaign is annoying but ignorable, so change it to annoying but un-ignorable? That said vortex rituals really aren't that hard if you simply fortify every province like I do.

In any case I see no reason to do Vortex over Mortal Empires now that turn times are vastly improved. Maybe I'd do a vortex campaign for the factions like tomb kings and pirates who have alternate objectives to the dumb ritual crap.

 

[Galdred]

That doesn't sound good. Vortex campaign is annoying but ignorable, so change it to annoying but un-ignorable? That said vortex rituals really aren't that hard if you simply fortify every province like I do.

In any case I see no reason to do Vortex over Mortal Empires now that turn times are vastly improved. Maybe I'd do a vortex campaign for the factions like tomb kings and pirates who have alternate objectives to the dumb ritual crap.

The turn time patch has already landed? Looks like I have to reinstall the game after all.
Is turn time killer still needed and working?

 

[Average Manatee]

Patch drops tomorrow. Presumably the turn time killer will still function just the same (maybe after an update) and help just the same.

 

[underground nymph]

That said vortex rituals really aren't that hard if you simply fortify every province like I do.

Oh my, have you tried anything above normal?

 

[Parabalus]

Also, I thought the choice to maintain Hag Graef was a no-brainer, but it may be a trap choice. You are stuck developing two settlements, a black ark, and 2 distant armies. On top of that, potions cost 600+ gold, which you may need to chug to keep a minimum amount of replenishment and public order. Furthermore, from the video the AI quickly colonized the ruins surrounding Hag Graef, which denied full control of the province. Even if the AI was slower, I doubt you would have much money to spare to colonize ruins and obtain full province control. On higher difficulties (and improved AI mod), I could see Hag Graef being pelted with rebellions and attacks from surrounding enemies.

Being pelted with rebellions is (sadly) a positive thing for every race, especially so for DE.

I saw the HG unique building and it almost eliminates upkeep costs for local armies, so that sounds like a farmer's paradise.

I dunno how other people play on Legendary or Very Hard but my gameplan can basically be summarized as:

- Take a full province
- Fort up w/ growth bonuses
- Pray I don't get dogpiled too hard for ~30-60 turns depending on faction.
- Eventually update to a level 3-4 settlement with some powerful units and a caster who can do fire/light/whatever else has good vortex shit.
- Start capturing settlements from the AI that are level 4/5 and become level 3/4 for me.

How many turns does it take for you to complete/drop campaigns?

I always try to expand aggressively from turn 1, sometimes the game is "won" before T5 buildings in the capital.

That said vortex rituals really aren't that hard if you simply fortify every province like I do.

Oh my, have you tried anything above normal?

Just build walls, even on VH/Leg. With Lightning Strike it's just free money delivery.

 

[Average Manatee]

That said vortex rituals really aren't that hard if you simply fortify every province like I do.

Oh my, have you tried anything above normal?

Yes? Basically always on legendary/very hard

See the provinces that are the vortex ritual sites -> station a full stack there on ambush stance -> laugh and autoresolve your problems away because its a 2v1 in your favor along with getting the ambush bonus. First ritual might be difficult if you only have 2 stacks but you're generally small enough at that point to very easily force march a stack to the other target before any shit goes down (AI will spend 2-4 turns waiting to build siege equipment rather than invade immediately because its dumb). Even if you don't pull this off properly, a fully forted level 4/5 settlement should have a pretty good shot of winning a siege battle on its own vs. a full stack.

I saw the HG unique building and it almost eliminates upkeep costs for local armies, so that sounds like a farmer's paradise.

How many turns does it take for you to complete/drop campaigns?

I always try to expand aggressively from turn 1, sometimes the game is "won" before T5 buildings in the capital.

75-100ish is when I'd say a campaign is definitively trivial to finish up. 125ish to reach a winning condition if I push for it (w/ Khalida in vortex I finished up at 150 but that was because I took over all of not-south america and not-africa rather than going straight for the black pyramid, tomb kings can win very quickly if they just trespass to snipe stuff). I think I got the short victory as the Empire in Mortal Empires around 125ish. Basically just involves bribing nations to ally you after smacking around chaos a bunch for good relations.

T5 is normally not that long to get up, do you not build any growth buildings? I do sometimes debate whether they are worth it but almost always get a few along with going for the growth tech/commandments.

Being pelted with rebellions is (sadly) a positive thing for every race, especially so for DE.

I saw the HG unique building and it almost eliminates upkeep costs for local armies, so that sounds like a farmer's paradise.

The upcoming patch that gives better sight radius for good public order is at least a step towards good PO being useful, but yeah rebels are a really silly mechanic.

I do kind of like races that "scale" with difficulty. Both DE (slaves) and Skaven (food) get to greatly accelerate their growth by both fighting rebels and the constant AI stacks.

 

[Maculo]

Also, I thought the choice to maintain Hag Graef was a no-brainer, but it may be a trap choice. You are stuck developing two settlements, a black ark, and 2 distant armies. On top of that, potions cost 600+ gold, which you may need to chug to keep a minimum amount of replenishment and public order. Furthermore, from the video the AI quickly colonized the ruins surrounding Hag Graef, which denied full control of the province. Even if the AI was slower, I doubt you would have much money to spare to colonize ruins and obtain full province control. On higher difficulties (and improved AI mod), I could see Hag Graef being pelted with rebellions and attacks from surrounding enemies.

Being pelted with rebellions is (sadly) a positive thing for every race, especially so for DE.

I saw the HG unique building and it almost eliminates upkeep costs for local armies, so that sounds like a farmer's paradise.

Normally, I would agree about rebellion farming, but I think Hag Graef could be a trap choice for the following reasons:

1. Malus at full control causes -10 to all melee stats to all armies, whereas at full possession all armies take a -50% replenishment debuff and -1 loyalty chance each turn for every lord. The replenishment debuff in particular could make rebellion farming difficult, especially if you need Malus to have the 30% ward save to survive (only at full possession).
   
2. Early-game, you will need to fund 2-3 armies, develop 2 distant provinces and a black ark, colonize the remaining settlements near Hag Graef, pay for Malus' potions as needed, and expand (or sack settlements) aggressively with Malus to take advantage of Tzarkan's Whispers (epic items and followings quests). Accordingly, I think gold will be tight.
   
3. Malus receives +30% income from mines (45% with Daylight Denied tech), and I think whatever benefit received by Hag Graef will be outweighed by simply taking all the nearby mines as early as possible. There are multiple mines near Malus if I recall correctly.
   
4. To my recollection, during the Vortex campaign each skaven faction will declare war on you at one point or another, including clan Rictus.

Personally, I also use Improved AI mod, which buffs Brayherds and one always seems to spawn near Hag Graef.

 

[Parabalus]

Also, I thought the choice to maintain Hag Graef was a no-brainer, but it may be a trap choice. You are stuck developing two settlements, a black ark, and 2 distant armies. On top of that, potions cost 600+ gold, which you may need to chug to keep a minimum amount of replenishment and public order. Furthermore, from the video the AI quickly colonized the ruins surrounding Hag Graef, which denied full control of the province. Even if the AI was slower, I doubt you would have much money to spare to colonize ruins and obtain full province control. On higher difficulties (and improved AI mod), I could see Hag Graef being pelted with rebellions and attacks from surrounding enemies.

Being pelted with rebellions is (sadly) a positive thing for every race, especially so for DE.

I saw the HG unique building and it almost eliminates upkeep costs for local armies, so that sounds like a farmer's paradise.

Normally, I would agree about rebellion farming, but I think Hag Graef could be a trap choice for the following reasons:

1. Malus at full control causes -10 to all melee stats to all armies, whereas at full possession all armies take a -50% replenishment debuff and -1 loyalty chance each turn for every lord. The replenishment debuff in particular could make rebellion farming difficult, especially if you need Malus to have the 30% ward save to survive (only at full possession).
   
2. Early-game, you will need to fund 2-3 armies, develop 2 distant provinces and a black ark, colonize the remaining settlements near Hag Graef, pay for Malus' potions as needed, and expand (or sack settlements) aggressively with Malus to take advantage of Tzarkan's Whispers (epic items and followings quests). Accordingly, I think gold will be tight.
   
3. Malus receives +30% income from mines (45% with Daylight Denied tech), and I think whatever benefit received by Hag Graef will be outweighed by simply taking all the nearby mines as early as possible. There are multiple mines near Malus if I recall correctly.
   
4. To my recollection, during the Vortex campaign each skaven faction will declare war on you at one point or another, including clan Rictus.

Personally, I also use Improved AI mod, which buffs Brayherds and one always seems to spawn near Hag Graef.

I think what changes it from a conundrum is the landmark:

It makes the stack in Hag Graef very cheap, you just pay the extra 15% supply lines on all your armies.

With a stack of e.g. 19 darkshards/bolthrowers/shades you can defend everything and get endless money thrown your way. HG will also be a ritual city so that makes it even better.

Will be fun to try in game, they probably tweaked some numbers in the mean time.

 

[underground nymph]

That said vortex rituals really aren't that hard if you simply fortify every province like I do.

Oh my, have you tried anything above normal?

Yes? Basically always on legendary/very hard

See the provinces that are the vortex ritual sites -> station a full stack there on ambush stance -> laugh and autoresolve your problems away because its a 2v1 in your favor along with getting the ambush bonus. First ritual might be difficult if you only have 2 stacks but you're generally small enough at that point to very easily force march a stack to the other target before any shit goes down (AI will spend 2-4 turns waiting to build siege equipment rather than invade immediately because its dumb). Even if you don't pull this off properly, a fully forted level 4/5 settlement should have a pretty good shot of winning a siege battle on its own vs. a full stack.

Well yes it’s a shame you can preview where the chaos stacks would spawn even on legendary. Cheese that is. Though some late stacks possess siege equipment and themselves pretty powerful. Fully fortified capital won’t have a chance against tanky elite aspiring champions.

 

[Drakron]

I think what changes it from a conundrum is the landmark:

It makes the stack in Hag Graef very cheap, you just pay the extra 15% supply lines on all your armies.

With a stack of e.g. 19 darkshards/bolthrowers/shades you can defend everything and get endless money thrown your way. HG will also be a ritual city so that makes it even better.

Will be fun to try in game, they probably tweaked some numbers in the mean time.

I think you missing the problem with Hag Graef that is at start, it pushes you to divide attention and it can go downhill fast and also you have upkeep, a extra army is still a extra army that you cannot deploy ... its not unworkable but it does make you fight in two fronts instead of the typical "Elite Doomstack lead by faction leader with a second weaker Doomstack to make the autoresolve in your favor", there is a reason why the game kinda breaks the moment you get a second army up or when you get enemies pulling that BS (oh yes, I do want to fight 2 and half Dwarf stacks) and why maintain a continuous territory with a single front so you can roll over and why Horde Armies are at the same time such a pain in the ass and really good as they are basically roaming Doomstacks that dont have to worry about things as territory but have a weird ass economy and if you fuck up before getting a second army up, you are dead.

Then again, I suspect most players will just lose Hag Graef by ignoring it as they are too busy doing the exact same Doomstack strategy as before instead of trying to work on two different locations, I suppose CA wants players to do it since the campaign is set that way but dont want to force then to do it so they provide a way out (mostly, just hope that Malekith doesnt croak and holds that territory as otherwise, welcome to the next 8 turns of sailing back) and most players will just take it and then bitch about having to sail back because High Elves took those provices and Malekith is barely holding or something like that.

 

[Maculo]

Hag Graef or no, it should be a flexible campaign. You can elect to just sail back to Hag Graef with Malus, punch out Lokir Felheart for his goldmine (+30% income trait), or visit Teclis or Tyrion. Other lords could do the same thing, but Malus has a black ark and can switch between +30% ward save for a battle and -50% building cost and +10 Public order, albeit at some cost. This is why I think Malus’ campaign is such incline

While it may be I’ll-advised, for my first playthrough I want to focus on Malus at full possession (+30% ward save), with a shade army, and try to use Tzarkan’s possession just before pressing the ”end battle” button to heal Malus to full. Provided Malus maintains the heal from the transformation, I think you can be even more aggressive early game with a LL that is always at full health. That, and I want to focus on completing as many whisper quests as possible. Obviously, I will report back when I fail miserably.

 

[razvedchiki]

users on steam report turn time reduction of up to 80%,from 40 to 10 secs in ME on the first few turns with the new patch.
i call bullshit for now,probably they dont count just the reduction seems big enough after waiting 2 mins for a turn.

edit
well i was wrong,on my 9300h first 5 turns on mortal empires i get 13 to 16 secs.