Interview TotalBiscuit Interviews Adam Brennecke

[Infinitron]

Well played, sir.

 

[Brother None]

Dragon Age is "Baldur's Gate 2 made 3D, and simplified for wider audiences."

Project Eternity is more "Infinity Engine style 2D game with an original fantasy universe."

All you can really say is they are both inspired by older titles and that they are both party-based RPGs.

Dragon Age was a original universe too. Initially much more novel, too. And both are RTwP.

All you can say really is one is 2D and the other 3D. See how easy it is to languidly simplify things?

Brother None I think you're misinterpeting Toxic's approach here. He doesn't think PE will be like DA:O because they both strive to be IE successors. He thinks PE will be like DA:O, directly.

Well, that's not true. But I wouldn't dismiss the intuitive connection between the projects simply because it makes one uncomfortable. But yeah, definitely shouldn't read too much into it, either.

But St Toxic is just trolling. No harm no foul. Codex gonna Codex.

Just like TB pointed out in the interview, 2d is a way to make games on the cheap side

Or it's an aesthetic choice. Which it is in this case. Maybe you're right and it's a mistake, but I don't really think it has that negative an impact. Wasteland 2 has an essentially fixed camera too so it's not like the gameplay limitations between the two are that far apart.

Obsidian did go for that Infinity Engine crowd hard and going 2D is a part of that. It could be a marketing thing. Kickstarter still has to be marketable, just in different ways. I don't think 2D versus 3D as a basic decision really is what PE will stand or fall on, though.

 

[St. Toxic]

Or it's an aesthetic choice. Which it is in this case.

Eh, yeah, sure. An aesthetic choice which conveniently saves them a bunch of $$$ on their DA:O spin-off.

Maybe you're right and it's a mistake, but I don't really think it has that negative an impact. Wasteland 2 has an essentially fixed camera too so it's not like the gameplay limitations between the two are that far apart.

W2 has tactical turn-based combat. There's no gameplay-related comparison you can make between these two games that won't sound retarded.

Obsidian did go for that Infinity Engine crowd hard and going 2D is a part of that. It could be a marketing thing. Kickstarter still has to be marketable, just in different ways. I don't think 2D versus 3D as a basic decision really is what PE will stand or fall on, though.

When you go realtime, you can either have shitty combat and gameplay in 2d or awesome combat and gameplay in 3d. Just look at combat in BG, the game that supposedly inspired both PE and DA:O. Combat was an atrocious grind, saved only by the switch to full 3d in DA:O.

Well played, sir.

Oh great, so you run out of credible arguments (not that you had any) and now your only defense is not to take me seriously? I'm gonna go through my brofists and remove every single one I've given you. Consider yourself ignored (not that I wasn't ignoring you anyway).

 

[Brother None]

I <3 you Bro Toxic.

Eh, yeah, sure. An aesthetic choice which conveniently saves them a bunch of $$$ on their DA:O spin-off.

I'm not entirely convinced it saves that much money. None of these Kickstarter projects are going to put that much money into graphics anyway. And they still have to make, model, and texture the art assets in 3D before implementing them in 2D and post-producing them. So, where does the big money saving come in?

W2 has tactical turn-based combat. There's no gameplay-related comparison you can make between these two games that won't sound retarded.

That's odd. I mean, for all we know they have identical inventory interfaces. Surely the camera comparison makes some sense.

When you go realtime, you can either have shitty combat and gameplay in 2d or awesome combat and gameplay in 3d. Just look at combat in BG, the game that supposedly inspired both PE and DA:O. Combat was an atrocious grind, saved only by the switch to full 3d in DA:O.

Actually I kind of agree with this. I heard right before PE launched that it'd be RTwP and was pretty down about that. I really don't like RTwP. It's like a shitty halfway house that is supposed to combine the best of RT and TB but instead combines the worst of RT and TB. But who knows, maybe they'll do better. I still pledged, but not a lot, because "Infinity Engine born again! By JE Sawyer!" doesn't appeal to me *that* much. I couldn't stand the Infinity Engine and disagree a lot on design notions with Sawyer.

But eh, it's personal preference. People still want it! That said, it sounds like the combat system you're objecting to, not so much 2D or 3D.

 

[St. Toxic]

And they still have to make, model, and texture the art assets in 3D before implementing them in 2D and post-producing them.

Exactly. They're already doing the assets in 3d, so 2d isn't an aesthetic choice -- that's just an excuse for lazy design.

So, where does the big money saving come in?

Level of Detail. You think they could just take their cheap 3d assets and shove them into a renderer and make a first-person game out of that? No chance, it'd look atrocious.

That's odd. I mean, for all we know they have identical inventory interfaces. Surely the camera comparison makes some sense.

I should've known you'd think camera controls and inventory management passes for gameplay these days. You should read up on VD's take on gameplay design, where he proves beyond a shadow of a doubt, almost mathematically, that gameplay equals combat (preferably turn-based) and dialogs (preferably with c&c) and nothing more. Everything else is just filler, even walking. Get with the program, BN.

I still pledged, but not a lot, because "Infinity Engine born again! By JE Sawyer!" doesn't appeal to me *that* much. I couldn't stand the Infinity Engine and disagree a lot on design notions with Sawyer.

I almost pledged, but then I thought to myself "A game about dwarves, shooting muskets at each other over feminist-issues? And not even turn-based?" and suddenly sanity kicked back in.

But eh, it's personal preference. People still want it! That said, it sounds like the combat system you're objecting to, not so much 2D or 3D.

Hey man, it's just the same as how in Fallout the skill system is directly linked to how many skill-books the map-makers put in the game. It doesn't make sense to talk about combat without also talking about 2d v.s 3d.

 

[Moribund]

We've reached an incredible new level of Codex edginess - you can't even say that a good game belongs to the same genre as a bad game.

Because that's like a slippery slope and before you know it you've got gay elf romances and health regeneration.

He didn't say "some of you kids out there might compare it to Dragon Age. Well it's like that but boy are you in for a treat!"

He said the game itself was good. He also didn't know who Boo was though he's making a game supposedly inspired by BG.

He liked DA and didn't play BG series. To wit he is not an RPG fan, and he is probably a pedophile.

Every time I point out the obvious reasons why a game will suck people argue. Then it comes out and sucks. Do I get an apology? Never.

 

[LeStryfe79]

Dragon Age: Origins would have been a good game if it had a lot more races, classes, character slots, MCA quality writing, and Tim Cain quality C&C. Too bad I can't think of an upcoming game that's doing anything like that.

 

[Machocruz]

Worst discussion I've ever seen.

 

[St. Toxic]

Worst discussion I've ever seen.

Worst contribution to a thread ever.

 

[Moribund]

Worst discussion I've ever seen.

I'm sure at some point developers that people take seriously will be talking about "classics like Oblivion". And whatever teenager replaces Infinitron by then will defend them

 

[Infinitron]

Every time I point out the obvious reasons why a game will suck people argue. Then it comes out and sucks. Do I get an apology? Never.

Joined: Oct 20, 2012

Whose alt is this

 

[Volrath]

Did Toxic turn into a dumbfuck overnight? I don't remember him being this stupid.

 

[Infinitron]

Did Toxic turn into a dumbfuck overnight? I don't remember him being this stupid.

See top of page.

 

[Volrath]

Shitty trolling is shitty.

 

[Moribund]

Every time I point out the obvious reasons why a game will suck people argue. Then it comes out and sucks. Do I get an apology? Never.

Joined: Oct 20, 2012

Whose alt is this

Yes people you haven't met before are all new to the internet. Good thinking.

 

[St. Toxic]

Worst discussion I've ever seen.

I'm sure at some point developers that people take seriously will be talking about "classics like Oblivion". And whatever teenager replaces Infinitron by then will defend them

What bugs me is the outright dismissal of any rational or sane comment that simply doesn't fit in with their preconception. If MCA came out on PAX and said, word for word, that PE was nothing but a cheap DA:O remake, their minds would probably still find a way to block it out. They're just so caught up in the hype, they can't see the edge of the cliff.

 

[Black]

Worst discussion I've ever seen.

I'm sure at some point developers that people take seriously will be talking about "classics like Oblivion". And whatever teenager replaces Infinitron by then will defend them

What bugs me is the outright dismissal of any rational or sane comment that simply doesn't fit in with their preconception. If MCA came out on PAX and said, word for word, that PE was nothing but a cheap DA:O remake, their minds would probably still find a way to block it out. They're just so caught up in the hype, they can't see the edge of the cliff.

A cheap remake of one of Codex's games of the year? It'd be praised here too!

 

[Machocruz]

Big jump from someone giving the most recent, well known example of a RtwP, party based game to "Heavens to mergitroid, PE is going to have automatic post battle revive and shitty encounters!"

It's reasonable to be suspicious in this day and age, but some of the speculation here is hyperbolic.

 

[St. Toxic]

A cheap remake of one of Codex's games of the year? It'd be praised here too!

Sure, until a new batch of console-kids replaces the current ones. Then they'll bash it just like they're bashing Fallout and Dink Smallwood today. Rinse and repeat.

It's reasonable to be suspicious in this day and age, but some of the speculation here is hyperbolic.

Right, can't draw conclusions without playing the game first.

 

[Black]

Dink Smallwood

My favouritest shit game

 

[Wise Emperor]

 

[Machocruz]

Right, can't draw conclusions without playing the game first.

YOU can't. Your poor comprehension skills and lack of inside knowledge preclude you from doing so. Please explain to the class, in detail, all the ways PE is going to resemble DA, since you know how it's going to turn out already.

 

[St. Toxic]

YOU can't. Your poor comprehension skills and lack of inside knowledge preclude you from doing so. Please explain to the class, in detail, all the ways PE is going to resemble DA, since you know how it's going to turn out already.

How about you read some of my posts, both in this thread and the one I've linked to? I've given a clear description of my line of reasoning and how I make my inferences, which anyone sufficiently versed in the topic should be well aware of and I'm not in the habit of repeating myself for the benefit of the ignorant nor the stupid.

 

[Alex]

Dragon Age is to Baldur's Gate what Fallout 3 is to Ultima Underworld

I would say it is more like what Ultima 9 is to Ultima Underworld.

 

[Moribund]

Fuck that loser.