Company News Troika Demise Confirmation

[Sol Invictus]

Depends on what you and DarkSign mean by salesforce. If that means dedicated staff that does nothing but sells, then no, it's not a must. There are plenty of successful businesses that don't have a sales force. They rely on different strategies.

Yes, we're (or at least I) not referring to a dedicated sales staff that does nothing but sales. In the case of game development, that should be responsibility of the producer and PR personnel and they should be no less dedicated at selling their services than someone who is paid to do just sales.

Troika didn't have any PR personnel and their producers obviously did a poor job at pitching their services (also called a sales pitch). They failed as a sales force, which is the job of the producers (developers) themselves, in this case, and obviously used the wrong strategies or had no strategy at all. In game development, the company is its own sales force, and that job is usually taken by the producers. It has to be, if it expects to do business.

edit: Maybe Troika just didn't pitch it to the right people while still expecting to get millions of dollars to make their games. In which case, it's still their mistake.

As Saint remarked in IRC, Well, what fucked them in the ass is they didn't want to deal with high dollar publishers but still wanted millions of dollars to make a game.

 

[Volourn]

"Well, what fucked them in the ass is they didn't want to deal with high dollar publishers but still wanted millions of dollars to make a game."

Game. Set. Match.

 

[DarkSign]

He's right, actually. Every business must have a sales force. It's the first thing you learn in business management. If you can't sell your business, you shouldn't be in business to begin with. A business is nothing if not sales, whether its a product, or a service matters little. What matters is selling what that product, or service.

Depends on what you and DarkSign mean by salesforce. If that means dedicated staff that does nothing but sells, then no, it's not a must. There are plenty of successful businesses that don't have a sales force. They rely on different strategies.

Ok. This is worse than any flip flop I have ever fucking seen.

Did anyone ever say that the sales force had to be dedicated staff? (Although usually unless you dont have enough money (hmmm remember that argument) you DO have one...its perferable than splitting the time of one person between sales and artwork)

A business is can either a) get money for the services or goods they render or b) hope that they dont have to sell because what they need is in such demand. If youre going fucking under...after doing b) then let me give you a managment tip...you should have done a).

In no business school on the planet will they EVER teach that you dont have to sell your product. And they certainly wont teach that if you are losing money and about to go out of business that you shouldnt go out and convince people into buying your good/service.

Your house of cards just got blown over. And BTW youve made as many personal remarks in this thread as I have.

Game. Set. Match. Silver Plate. Title.

EDIT: A little more Business 101 after reading another of your posts...the leverage that Troike never had....it was supposed to be their talent. Let me walk you through this...they were selling their talent...if they had the talent to create games that people wanted better than other development houses THATS LEVERAGE. I will admit that the publishers do control direct access to the market, but as you have said it goes back and forth. Im glad you are now finally admitting more and more that things rest between Troika and the publishers...although they didnt keep their doors open and that rests on them.

 

[Vault Dweller]

Ok. This is worse than any flip flop I have ever fucking seen.

Did anyone ever say that the sales force had to be dedicated staff?

That's what the word means: salesforce = sales people, not some sales power or ability of a business to sell their services. Unless you've meant sales Force in a galaxy far, far away.

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=sales%20force
sales force
n : the division of a business that is responsible for selling products or services [syn: sales department, sales division]

http://www.investorwords.com/4368/sales_force.html
sales force
The group of employees involved in the selling process.

In no business school on the planet will they EVER teach that you dont have to sell your product.

No arguing here. My comments in prev posts were about dedicated sales staff, not the need to sell goods and services. I'm pretty sure that you've chosen the wrong word when you were making your point.

And BTW youve made as many personal remarks in this thread as I have.

Against you? Not really, I've only followed your lead there. Given a choice, I'd prefer a normal discussion, however, if you feel the need to reinforce your point with an insult, I can always return the courtesy. When in Rome...

Btw, after reviewing our "conversation", I'm surprised that it turned to shit so fast, considering that at the beginning you've sorta agreed with me.

A little more Business 101 after reading another of your posts...the leverage that Troike never had....it was supposed to be their talent. Let me walk you through this...they were selling their talent...if they had the talent to create games that people wanted better than other development houses THATS LEVERAGE.

A little Reality 101 for you: Publishers don't buy talent, they buy a promise of a game that would sell a lot of units. Troika being a niche developer, at least before Bloodlines, couldn't offer that.

Im glad you are now finally admitting more and more that things rest between Troika and the publisher

Finally admitting? I have never stated otherwise, and I have stated that in this thread even before we've got into this argument.

 

[DarkSign]

If Troika survives, that would be "despite of" not "because of "

the beginning of "its not troikas fault" really.

The real question is "was Troika in position to turn down the offer?". I don't think that anyone doubts that given a choice and enough time from the start they would have preferred to make a different game.

Once you start a business where you have to "take what you can get" the management has already in trouble ....and they have to turn that around to get a smarter business model.

[Pipeline]Depends on publishers, not developers. They did made a new engine for that PA game.

No...it depends on your management and salesforce. If you know you have the business up and running but no money coming in you have to scramble. Its as simple (or hard) as that.

Now time to quote myself

And Troika has no sales department? Just out of the blue they get development deals? 100% bullshit. Its their job to keep money coming in the door. Its their job to go drum up business or the doors close.

I said sales department for the record. And again if you dont have a sales department even if its the principals of a firm who are selling your goods/services where does the money come from? The air?

The point of a company is to produce something, my easily confused friend. Not everyone is a salesman.

No. Not everyone is a salesman. But every business has to have one to persuade people to buy from you and not the other guy...or to even buy from you at all.

"Every business has to have a salesforce". You've gotta be kidding. There are tons of businesses that don't have one and don't need one. Open your eyes. Anyway, like I said businesses produce, not sell. A game developer or an artist is a prime example of that.

LMAO. A business by its very nature has to do BOTH. An artist that just produces and doesnt sell...starves. Thats why there are idiots spitting on a canvas who make millions and geniuses who are never heard from. True artists arent always great at selling their art. (You know you make this too easy)

Even if that's the end of the road for them, they have left their mark which is more than you can say about yourself at this point.

First of all - there you go with the personal stuff. Saying "mommy he did it first" doesnt make you innocent, at the very least it brings you down to my level. Although I have to say that I got personal after words like bullshit and other words were used. But that ad hominem attack is a wash.

Second - you have no clue what Ive done with my life. Zero. In the vernacular, "back up you dont know me like that."

"Well VD's right publishers are a major reason for Troikas problems, specifically BUT those publishing problems are symptomatic of the problems with the industry. You can't have one without the other, it's a fucked up marriage of convenience that in reality rarely works out. Troikas publishers in each instance of their releases did some really stupid shit, in turn Troika either agreed to some really stupid shit in the first place that got them into a postion were they couldn't do what they needed to get past said stupid shit. Not exactly a recipe for success."

Oddly I agree with this as well. The state of the industry is fucked up and Troika is neither 100% to blame, however the majority of the responsibility to keep the doors open was on their shoulders.

(BTW. Sherrif05 I overlooked your little post about me being full of shit for now. I could go on about the number of languages I speak, the degrees I hold, the countries Ive lived in, the honors I earned, and my personal achievements and lots of other things, but you'd either refute them or peg me for bragging. If you like me like me. If you dont don't - you deal with it.)

In reading back through this thread I must concede that VD has spread more of the blame than he originally came off as doing in the first reading of his comments. Obviously Im not the only one who read them this way since you have been being called every name in the book.

However your little semantics about the definition of sales force is contemptable. To switch from saying that a business doesnt have to worry about sales to some semantic argument about the definition of salesforce is assinine. You said...as evidenced by several people backing me up...that all they had to do was produce. No, my friend, they had to produce, sell, manage, and strategize for the future. One of those wasnt done so well. Ill let you play "which one of these is not like the other."

I suppose we both have our own view of each other and this issue. You obviously think they got fucked. I obvioiusly differ in my opinions. Guess this part of the thread is over.

 

[bryce777]

Sales staff implies sales people dedicated to, well, sales.

Reading dictae out of some 100 level class isn't going to make you look smart, sorry.

 

[dojoteef]

I have to say that the semantic argument is bullshit. A sales force does not mean the only thing they do is sales, if that were the case then the commonly used phrase "a dedicated sales force" would be extremely redundant. I guess you could try to fault DarkSign for saying "sales department" initially, though Vault Dweller's comeback "businesses produce, not sell" has to be faulted as well.

 

[Vault Dweller]

I said sales department for the record.

And that also means dedicated sales people.

No. Not everyone is a salesman. But every business has to have one to persuade people to buy from you and not the other guy...or to even buy from you at all.

No arguing here. Please understand that you've used incorrect terms, and I disagreed with the meaning of those terms, not with what you've *meant* in your mind.

First of all - there you go with the personal stuff. Saying "mommy he did it first" doesnt make you innocent, at the very least it brings you down to my level.

Oh, I have no problem being at your level, and I don't claim to be innocent. That was to point out that you are the one who set the tone and style of a conversation. Anyway, it's decent now again, so let's keep it that way.

Although I have to say that I got personal after words like bullshit and other words were used.

Your memory fails you."Thats a bullshit comment...", "Again with the bullshit...", etc. That's 2 pages before I decided to speak your language.

Second - you have no clue what Ive done with my life. Zero. In the vernacular, "back up you dont know me like that."

True, I don't know you. I guessed. I figured that if a guy like you who's so proud of his achievements haven't told us anything about "leaving a mark", then he didn't. Don't take it the wrong way though. I didn't imply that you are some kind of a loser who haven't done anything in his life, I said didn't leave a mark which is something else. However, if I was wrong, now is your chance to prove that. I'll even take your word for it.

To switch from saying that a business doesnt have to worry about sales to some semantic argument about the definition of salesforce is assinine.

It is. 100%. Now you have to prove that I did say that a business doesn't have to worry about sales.

You said...as evidenced by several people backing me up...that all they had to do was produce.

Uh, can we please go with the exact quotes instead of "as evidenced by several people"? I can't be responsible for what people are saying.

I suppose we both have our own view of each other and this issue. You obviously think they got fucked. I obvioiusly differ in my opinions. Guess this part of the thread is over.

Amen.

 

[Vault Dweller]

I have to say that the semantic argument is bullshit. A sales force does not mean the only thing they do is sales

That is exactly what that means. Trust me on that.

 

[MarFish]

What it cant have is Admin's editing users messages purely for their own self-aggrandizing goals.

What it really needs is less spam. Getting rid of yours was a good start.

 

[DarkSign]

It is. 100%. Now you have to prove that I did say that a business doesn't have to worry about sales.

You did or we wouldnt even be here.

Oh wait...here's the post:

The point of a company is to produce something, my easily confused friend. Not everyone is a salesman.

Wait! here's another..where you said Troika didnt have to worry about selling:

"Every business has to have a salesforce". You've gotta be kidding. There are tons of businesses that don't have one and don't need one. Open your eyes. Anyway, like I said businesses produce, not sell. A game developer or an artist is a prime example of that.

Ouch did that hurt?

I can anticipate that because Troika's name isnt in your little post you will weasel out of the last one. But thats what it will be a weasel. It was, in fact, the culmination of a long string of posts where you were trying to prove that Troika didnt have to sell shit.

Let me lead you through this like a child.

a) I said it was managements fault
b) you cried and said no it wasnt
c) I pointed out that it was their responsibility to keep work in the pipepline....thats done with ....say it with me.....wait for it.... SALES.

Even if you are just taking orders from people who already want to buy...thats still sales.

Am I going to have to put your underware on you too?

Since Im using lists...lets stay with that. Pull out your pencil and look at the clock. Ill give you an hour.

You are Troika and you are about to shut your doors forever.
Which of the following should you have done?

a) Made sure to borrow enough money for your business
b) Diversify your products so that you can identify the best sellers and produce those
c) Hire a legal team to protect you in case of ass-raping
d) Make sure you have sales people whose only job is to pimp your work so that money keeps coming in the fucking door
e) Continually analyze your business model, deciding perhaps to self-publish
f) All of the above

Of course you would choose the write-in answer of...push the blame to the publishers and only take enough responsibilty so that it *sounds* like you are humble for the sake of an internet post.

But wait, you trip yourself up more. I love it.
ME:

A sales force does not mean the only thing they do is sales

VD:

That is exactly what that means. Trust me on that.

VD:

If that means dedicated staff that does nothing but sells, then no, it's not a must.

You dont even read the shit you are typing do you?

I know there are businesses where people wear two hats, but in your quest to be both a Troika apologist and Mr. Business Guru, you contradict your own arguments.

Stick a fork in you...you're done. Or at least I am with this because its clear youre blathering.

 

[bryce777]

I have to say that the semantic argument is bullshit. A sales force does not mean the only thing they do is sales, if that were the case then the commonly used phrase "a dedicated sales force" would be extremely redundant. I guess you could try to fault DarkSign for saying "sales department" initially, though Vault Dweller's comeback "businesses produce, not sell" has to be faulted as well.

I guess I just found the whole post pretty annoying, in many ways. It is like a kid who took a business class spewing out the terminology but not really understanding it...if he meant they needed to be able to pitch games better, why didn't he say that?

It could well be that their 'bad business sense' for example is that they kept pitching turnbased games and idiot publishers kept shooting the idea down because they think RTS games are 'hot'. That does not make Boyarsky a lousy pitch man ina nd of itself so much as it made him too idealistic perhaps to get the funding he needed in this sort of environment.

So if by diversifying he means you have to conform to whatever the flavor of the day is and make a crappy product you don't believe in and don't think will sell, then why didn't he say that?

I am not the best business guy; I just lost an embarassing amount of money in fact on something, but I do know the software industry and what it takes to make it and I found his post pretty condescending and laughably simplistic, and apparently I am not the only one.

 

[DarkSign]

If you're referring to me, I for one dont think the industry is an easy one to weather. I certainly dont have all the answers to all the business problems in the world either.

I appreciate the different perspective that you offer. Robert Burns, the Scottish poet, said "What a gift he surely [gives us] to see ourselves as others see us."

I merely was responding, as many did, to VD's fanboi-ism, as the post discussion turned to what might have been done.

Somewhere along the way when I said there were possible options for it being Troika's fault it suddenly became "War of the Think-they-know-it-alls" of which I took part in.

Perhaps took VD too seriously when he began to say that you dont need to sell what you make to run a business. Call me crazy for correcting that.

Sorry if you found me simplistic. As someone else said, we are all working off conjecture here and adding in our own experiences. If we didnt discuss this stuff there wouldnt be a forum. Im extremely sorry that anyone at Troika lost their job and lament the loss on talented people not working together.

Teach VD not to dig in his heels and I'll try to step back when correcting people.
Doubt either will happen though.

 

[Vault Dweller]

You have a way with words, DarkSign. If you are not a lawyer, you should consider becoming one.

It is. 100%. Now you have to prove that I did say that a business doesn't have to worry about sales.

Oh wait...here's the post:

The point of a company is to produce something, my easily confused friend. Not everyone is a salesman.

Wait! here's another..where you said Troika didnt have to worry about selling:

"Every business has to have a salesforce""every busine. You've gotta be kidding. There are tons of businesses that don't have one and don't need one. Open your eyes. Anyway, like I said businesses produce, not sell. A game developer or an artist is a prime example of that.

Ouch did that hurt?

Not really. "the point is to produce" does NOT imply that selling products isn't necessary. The minimum requirement is to produce products and services. The second quote was also a reference to the prime role of a business, which was in reply to "every business has to have a salesforce", "No my argument is valid because the point of the company is to sell their services", "You are a crack addict if you think people make products for their health.", etc

As I've stated earlier in this thread: "A business has to do many things: produce stuff, sell stuff, process orders, deliver goods, pay wages and taxes, etc; but overall a business is about producing, not selling. Sometimes they go together, sometimes not. "

Let me lead you through this like a child.

a) I said it was managements fault
b) you cried and said no it wasnt
c) I pointed out that it was their responsibility to keep work in the pipepline....thats done with ....say it with me.....wait for it.... SALES.

You are Troika and you are about to shut your doors forever.
Which of the following should you have done?

a) Made sure to borrow enough money for your business
b) Diversify your products so that you can identify the best sellers and produce those
c) Hire a legal team to protect you in case of ass-raping
d) Make sure you have sales people whose only job is to pimp your work so that money keeps coming in the fucking door
e) Continually analyze your business model, deciding perhaps to self-publish
f) All of the above

I see now that the biggest mistake Troika made was not hiring you to run their business. In other words, what a load of crap. It may work for some businesses, but not for all. Nothing that you've listed there works for a small game developer studio. How embarrassing for you to post that.

But wait, you trip yourself up more. I love it.
ME:

A sales force does not mean the only thing they do is sales

VD:

That is exactly what that means. Trust me on that.

VD:

If that means dedicated staff that does nothing but sells, then no, it's not a must.

You dont even read the shit you are typing do you?

Nice try. Let's see the whole thing, shall we?

He's right, actually. Every business MUST have a sales force

If that means dedicated staff that does nothing but sells, then no, it's not a MUST.

Words aren't your friends, are they?

I know there are businesses where people wear two hats, but in your quest to be both a Troika apologist and Mr. Business Guru, you contradict your own arguments.

Business Guru? Unlike you, I simply mentioned what I do to indicate that I have some experience in that area. You, on the other hand, jumped out of your pants trying to establish yourself as a Guru: "Thats because I know how to make the counter-intuitive choice. No one is saying its easy...but its still the job of management.", " And seeing as how I am in the financial world...you might want to listen to me on that", etc.

*bows to the Guru

 

[DarkSign]

Glad you know who to bow to...even if it was sarcasm. Feel free to do something while you're down there.

Caught dead to rights you still dance like Cassius Clay - Shifting from deluded semantic point to semantic triviality. You can try to shift again, but I caught you dead to rights.

And as for my credentials, just as you said, I merely stated them (in passing here and there and not even 1/10th of them) to explain wherefrom I was speaking. Internet forum boards are strange places where you type with people you enjoy,hate, trust, distrust, learn from, learn what not to do from...and people describe themselves to reveal their starting point. If you want to call me pompous...I cant stop you. Its convenient that maybe you and Sherrif tops have said that...and that was merely because you are on the other side of this argument.

Ive been humble and Ive been cocky. You have too - so bite me.

I caught you dead to rights. The culmination of your argument was that Troika didnt have to sell itself to stay in business because of the publisher-developer relationship.

Ideas arent really your friends are they?

/yawn

EDIT: Im just goint to skip over the part where you embarass yourself by thinking that salesforce/salesdepartment means that people can ONLY do that. Anyone knows that in a small business people can wear more than one hat. OMG is that a metaphor? Surely you got my meaning though.

 

[Fez]

Robert Burns, the Scottish poet, said "What a gift he surely [gives us] to see ourselves as others see us."

No he didn't. He said "O wad some Pow'r the giftie gie us, To see oursels as others see us". Your version sucks, you word butcher.

 

[DarkSign]

Sorry. Sorry. That was me being condescending and translating Scottish. I should have known that 'Dexers could do the translation themselves. :D

 

[Sol Invictus]

Business is about selling what you produce (be it goods or services), and on occasion, it's about selling what others produce. Marketing, for instance.

 

[Vault Dweller]

Glad you know who to bow to...even if it was sarcasm.

I thought that your overinflated ego would like that. Enjoy, that's on the house.

Shifting from deluded semantic point to semantic triviality.

DarkSign's dictionary:

argument - semantic point
facts - semantic triviality.

Definitely a lawyer.

And as for my credentials, just as you said, I merely stated them them (in passing here and there and not even 1/10th of them) to explain wherefrom I was speaking.

So when I do that I'm a "Mr Business Guru" who runs a "crack business". When you do that, that's merely stating something. Lolz. Love the "not even 1/10th of them" part. This thread turned out to be very entertaining after all.

I'm curious, that "I could go on about the number of languages I speak, the degrees I hold, the countries Ive lived in, the honors I earned, and my personal achievements and lots of other things" comment was still a part of the "not even 1/10th" thing or not?

Btw, may I recommend adding "battles I've won and beautiful women I loved" to that list?

Ive been humble and Ive been cocky. You have too - so bite me.

Thanks, I'll pass, I might get that ego thing where I can't stop talking about myself.

The culmination of your argument was that Troika didnt have to sell itself to stay in business because of the publisher-developer relationship.

That was when you claimed that every company must have a sales force or a sales department. Then you've changed your mind and said that you've meant something else, and now you are trying to pretend that all the points that were made addressing the sales force thing were made addressing the fact that every business sells its services.

EDIT: Im just goint to skip over the part where you embarass yourself by thinking that salesforce/salesdepartment means that people can ONLY do that.

No, please, don't skip anything. That would be fun to watch. DarkSign against The Meaning of Words and Common Terms. I support you, bro. Fuck the words! Fuck the common sense! You have different ideas, don't bow to the mainstream!

Anyone knows that in a small business people can wear more than one hat.

People who do that don't call themselves departments. More fun semantic stuff for you:

http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?b ... nt&x=0&y=0
Department
1 a : a distinct sphere
2 : a functional or territorial division: as a : a major administrative division of a government b : a major territorial administrative subdivision c : a division of a college or school giving instruction in a particular subject d : a major division of a business

Assuming that Troika's founders are the ones who pitch ideas to publishers, they are definitely, 100% not a sales department. What else you've got?

 

[Vault Dweller]

Business is about selling what you produce (be it goods or services), and on occasion, it's about selling what others produce. Marketing, for instance.

I disagree. Business is about producing. If you don't have a product, you have nothing to sell. If your product is bad, uncompetitive, unnecessary, too costly, doesn't fit the market, etc you can't sell it successfully, no matter how good you are at sales.

Btw, selling what others produce is producing services.

 

[DarkSign]

So thats what you're hanging your whole house of cards on...

that people dont call themselves departments if they do more than one thing.

Huh.

Interesting.

tumbleweeds....

Weak, but interesting.

Buyer walks in. Only sees one guy in the room.
"Can I speak to someone in your sales department?"

Man:"You're talkin' to him."

They talk for a bit...

Buyer:"Ok. Well Ill come back and settle up with your Accounts Receivables department."

Man:"Sure I get back around 1pm after lunch."

To use "2 : a functional or territorial division"- functionally the guy is the sales department. Functionally...the owners of Troika (assuming they do the pitches) are the sales department." Thanks for giving me the rope to hang you.

Think that was a weak walkthrough? Good. Because what youre saying is drivel.
No one calls themselves that? Not everyone runs to the dictionary every time they use a word. We use words colloquially...you know...general usage. In addition, theoretical people are able to distinguish in their minds the different jobs that they do under one umbrella.

All this drivel because you wanted to say that Troika wasnt at fault for not bringing money in the door.

Remember? Youve been called a fan-boi by lots of people other than me for positing that Troika went under because of the publishers? (Although you have put enough blame..not in specifics mind you...to have the shell of "its partly Troika's fault)

We wouldnt be here if you hadnt said that Troika didnt have to sell anything to keep the doors open.

I proved you said that 2 or 3 posts up from this? And you still cant let it go?

Keep on with the ad hominem...cause that's all you've got. The rest of your argument is weak.

 

[Araanor]

Troika didn't have a third team. The closest to this I've heard is when they said they were discussing three different proposals with publishers. I'm inclined to think that the engine development they did after TOEE was mostly constrained to shortly after TOEE was released, and after Bloodlines was released. Both times, they had a team without a project. So naturally, they'd place this manpower on developing technology. Both times, they actively tried to fish for new projects but came up short. They had to let people go.

 

[Vault Dweller]

Buyer walks in. Only sees one guy in the room.
"Can I speak to someone in your sales department?"

Man:"You're talkin' to him."

They talk for a bit...

Buyer:"Ok. Well Ill come back and settle up with your Accounts Receivables department."

Man:"Sure I get back around 1pm after lunch."

Nice, except that nobody talks like that, but hey, don't let the reality get in the way of your point.

To use "2 : a functional or territorial division"- functionally the guy is the sales department. Functionally...the owners of Troika (assuming they do the pitches) are the sales department."

Functionally they are the management, fyi.

Thanks for giving me the rope to hang you.

You are a vicious little bugger, aren't you?

We use words colloquially...you know...general usage.

Who's we? The Illiterati Order?

All this drivel because you wanted to say that Troika wasnt at fault for not bringing money in the door.

They did. They've got 3 contracts, made 3 games, and by all logic BL should have brought them some money. Why it didn't is everyone's guess at this point.

Remember? Youve been called a fan-boi by lots of people other than me for positing that Troika went under because of the publishers? (Although you have put enough blame..not in specifics mind you...to have the shell of "its partly Troika's fault)

So? People can't deal with an argument, they call you a fanboi. Big deal.

 

[Fez]

Sorry. Sorry. That was me being condescending and translating Scottish. I should have known that 'Dexers could do the translation themselves. :D

Ironically, your translation was wrong. :wink:

 

[Major_Blackhart]

You know, I still feel depressed about Troika closing doors. I am a rabid fanboi with nowhere to turn. HALP!