Tyranny Pre-Release Thread

[Prime Junta]

Eh.... more like plural pronouns some people insist on misusing as singular neutral.

But it serves the purpose. Many other languages don't even have that luxury to take some liberty with grammar.

It's also grammatically incorrect. Well, to the extent that English even has a grammar, anyway.

 

[Excidium II]

I guess it's what he implied. Grammar mistakes become grammar rules with time anyway, and it makes sense for english with all those neutral nouns.

Still a less jarring way to be incloosive than defaulting to female.

 

[Prime Junta]

I guess it's what he implied. Grammar mistakes become grammar rules with time anyway, and it makes sense for english with all those neutral nouns.

Still a less jarring way to be incloosive than defaulting to female.

Why?

 

[Excidium II]

Because majority of readers are male, and historically if there's a default gender it's male.

Defaulting to female is just 'you go girl'-ness and obviously stands out.

 

[Prime Junta]

Because majority of readers are male, and historically if there's a default gender it's male.

Defaulting to female is just 'you go girl'-ness and obviously stands out.

In my country, the majority of PnP RPG'ers are women actually, and as you said, language changes with time.

 

[Excidium II]

I guess that statistic includes LARP.

 

[Darth Roxor]

Ahem,

English has no sex-neutral third person singular pronoun (ie one that expresses the common meaning of he and she), and so the plural pronoun they is often used informally (especially in BrE), in defiance of number concord, as a substitute for the indefinite pronouns everyone, everybody, someone, somebody, anyone, anybody, no one, nobody.

Everyone thinks they have the answer [42]
Has anybody brought their camera? [43]
No one could have blamed themselves for that [44]

The plural pronoun is a convenient means of avoiding the dilemma of whether to use the he or she form. The same dilemma can arise with coordinate subjects and with some indefinite noun phrase subjects, but here, resort to the evasive device of the plural pronoun is perhaps not so acceptable:

? Either he or his wife is going to have to change their attitude
? Not every drug addict can solve their problem so easily

The use of they in sentences like [42-44] is frowned upon in formal English, where the tendency is to use he as the 'unmarked' form when the sex of the antecedent is not determined. The formal equivalent of [42] is therefore:

Everyone thinks he has the answer [42a]

The same choice is made in referring back to a singular noun phrase with a personal noun of indeterminate gender as head:

Every student has to make up his own mind [45]

Although this use of he often sounds pedantic, there is no obvious alternative to it, in formal English, except the rather cumbersome device of conjoining both male and
female pronouns:

Every student has to make up his or her own mind [45a]

Any of you faggots wish to defy Lord Quirk?

 

[Prime Junta]

I guess that statistic includes LARP.

Possibly. There's a lot of crossover. My PnP group was/is about 50-50 though.

In any case, why is it a big deal? I mean sure, if it really was an all-male hobby, then it would make sense to use 'he' by default, but... it isn't. What's wrong with sometimes using 'she' and sometimes 'he?'

 

[Excidium II]

We aren't talking about sometimes he or she, we are talking about defaulting, in this case to female.

 

[Prime Junta]

We aren't talking about sometimes he or she, we are talking about defaulting, in this case to female.

Some books default to "he." What's wrong with other books defaulting to "she?"

 

[Excidium II]

Didnt you quote the answer to that question a few minutes ago?

 

[Prime Junta]

Didnt you quote the answer to that question a few minutes ago?

Um... no? Unless you're referring to the "historically" thing. If it's that, my counterpoint is that the historical objection applies more strongly to use of 'their' as it's historically been considered grammatically incorrect.

So, let me rephrase that: why do you prefer 'they' over 'she' if you want to avoid using 'he' as the default?

 

[Excidium II]

Because the majority of readers are male. Unless it's being exclusively published in your country I guess.

The historical element is because defaulting is a bit of pedanticism in the first place.

 

[Joni Odin von Hassenstein]

If he had written "errand boy of Evil", would you be upset like hell, too, because you're going to be restricted to male PC only?

No.

How can anybody who has read a pen-and-paper RPG manual in the last decade be unfamiliar with the concept of writing with female as default gender

Well, I haven't.

 

[Prime Junta]

Because the majority of readers are male. Unless it's being exclusively published in your country I guess.

The historical element is because defaulting is a bit of pedanticism in the first place.

Fair enough I suppose. I just fail to see how this is a big deal though. Or is it?

 

[Excidium II]

It's not a big deal. It's just typical forced incloosiveness standing out like a sore thumb.

 

[Prime Junta]

It's not a big deal. It's just typical forced incloosiveness standing out like a sore thumb.

If it's not a big deal, but it does make some women happy, then why not?

 

[Theldaran]

For example, 3rd Edition D&D books had default feminine article.

Another thing altogether is forcing you to play a woman only. Even games were canon is a given gender (like KOTOR) allow you to, you know, take your own path.

 

[Excidium II]

It's not a big deal. It's just typical forced incloosiveness standing out like a sore thumb.

If it's not a big deal, but it does make some women happy, then why not?

Because 'make some women happy' as a writing guideline is progressivetardism of the highest order.

 

[Prime Junta]

For example, 3rd Edition D&D books had default feminine article.

Another thing altogether is forcing you to play a woman only. Even games were canon is a given gender (like KOTOR) allow you to, you know, take your own path.

Depends on the game. If you have a blank-slate protagonist, then it makes sense for you to be able to select your gender.

Some RPG's have a fixed protagonist though, the Witchers for example. That would work just as well for a fixed female protagonist. Tomb Raider RPG anyone?

 

[Prime Junta]

It's not a big deal. It's just typical forced incloosiveness standing out like a sore thumb.

If it's not a big deal, but it does make some women happy, then why not?

Because 'make some women happy' as a writing guideline is progressivetardism of the highest order?

(Edit: NVM, I think this has gone on long enough.)

 

[AwesomeButton]

Eh.... more like plural pronouns some people insist on misusing as singular neutral.

Actually they've been insisting for quite a long time.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Singular_they

The singular they had emerged by the mid-14th century and is common in everyday spoken English, but its use has been the target of criticism since the late nineteenth century. Its use in formal English has increased with the trend toward gender-inclusive language.

Because majority of readers are male, and historically if there's a default gender it's male.

Ironically, the default biological gender is female.

 

[Space Insect]

This entire argument reminds me of the time a friend of mine had to write a paper on drones and defined them as "an unmaned aircraft". He lost points because unmaned is apparently sexist.

 

[Theldaran]

Unwomanned, then?

 

[Joni Odin von Hassenstein]

This entire argument reminds me of the time a friend of mine had to write a paper on drones and defined them as "an unmaned aircraft". He lost points because unmaned is apparently sexist.

Holy fucking shit! I get so furious hearing stuff like this!