Game News Tyranny Released

[Trashos]

...
It's trying to be Age of Decadence-lite (so the comparisons don't come out of nowhere), but it isn't even close, it's like a child's interpretation of what AoD would be like.
...

I am interested to see PJ's review, but I would also appreciate a formal review by someone who has enjoyed AoD.

If there are similarities, and Tyranny is an AoD-for-the-masses, it would be fun and informative to read an analysis on just that.

 

[Haba]

If there are similarities, and Tyranny is an AoD-for-the-masses, it would be fun and informative to read an analysis on just that.

It isn't. Tyranny's C&C is limited to flavour text changes and faction reputation slider movement. Complete smoke and mirrors. Maybe they had intended to make those choices have real impact on the gameplay, but it is not present in the game that was released.

If ANYONE tries to sell you Tyranny as "real C&C, just like Age of Decadence!", they are lying. Most probably with malicious intent.

 

[Darth Roxor]

DarkUnderlord, please eject me. I'm done with this site.

ah, so something good has actually come out of this shit review

We can't afford to lose people willing to produce well-written content because of nonsense like this.

"well-written content"

PrimeJunta: (1) tyranny was not a particularly enjoyable game

so was it not particularly enjoyable or did it have all the makings of a cult classic

i'm confus

 

[Infinitron]

You're an Alpha Protocol fan. I think you can answer that question.

 

[RK47]

DarkUnderlord, please eject me. I'm done with this site.

ah, so something good has actually come out of this shit review

We can't afford to lose people willing to produce well-written content because of nonsense like this.

"well-written content"

PrimeJunta: (1) tyranny was not a particularly enjoyable game

so was it not particularly enjoyable or did it have all the makings of a cult classic

i'm confus

Roxor shamelessly promoting himself.
SAD!

 

[Urthor]

So instead of all this bullshit why didn't Prime Junta just fire up Age of Decadence and play the fucking game.

A playthrough is what, 15 hours for combat route? 2 maybe 3 hours to reach Maadoran?

 

[Darth Roxor]

You're an Alpha Protocol fan. I think you can answer that question.

you forgot to mention dungeon siege 3

 

[Prime Junta]

I played AoD for a few hours or so when it came out. Did a few runs through the starter village. It failed to grab me though so I filed it in the "intriguing, revisit in the future" bin, as well as the "I really want to like this but" bin.

Edit: also, my title for the review would be "Tyranny: Kyros demands better," not Bubbles' bullshit. I didn't propose one because I figured the Codex would go with the usual "{{game name}} review."

 

[Jim the Dinosaur]

And how can he make that assessment over a game he hasn't played?

You only need to play a game to judge its gameplay, not necessarily other elements.

Maybe C&C is to a large extent the gameplay in AoD (or "gameplay" if you hate CYOA), as opposed to an element of worldbuilding in Tyranny. Wouldn't know myself cause I haven't played Tyranny, but I'm fairly sure the argument can be made that AoD's approach to C&C is qualitatively different from that of other cRPG's as opposed to quantitatively different. PJ implicitly argues for the latter by saying that it's simply a question of added attention paid to fleshing out the C&C portion of the game.

Wonder what Vault Dweller thinks about all this

 

[duanth123]

I played AoD for a few hours or so when it came out. Did a few runs through the starter village. It failed to grab me though so I filed it in the "intriguing, revisit in the future" bin, as well as the "I really want to like this but" bin.

Edit: also, my title for the review would be "Tyranny: Kyros demands better," not Bubbles' bullshit. I didn't propose one because I figured the Codex would go with the usual "{{game name}} review."

DarkUnderlord, please eject me. I'm done with this site.

 

[Prime Junta]

PJ implicitly argues

I'm not implicitly arguing anything. I'm just pointing out that other than AoD (and to a much lesser extent, The Witcher 2, which I reference elsewhere) branching story hasn't been a priority for cRPGs in recent years (which I think is a shame). I still fail to see what's the least bit controversial about that.

If you parse that as "Tyranny does C&C as well as/better than/worse than/differently than/the same way as AoD" then you're reading something into the statement that just isn't there.

 

[veevoir]

Just so be clear - is the whole discussion just making statements about a review nobody read in which PJ is making statements about game he didnt play?

 

[Zorba the Hutt]

Another PJ review, another "leaving foreva but not really" tantrum? Unexpected.

 

[duanth123]

PJ implicitly argues

I'm not implicitly arguing anything. I'm just pointing out that other than AoD (and to a much lesser extent, The Witcher 2, which I reference elsewhere) branching story hasn't been a priority for cRPGs in recent years (which I think is a shame). I still fail to see what's the least bit controversial about that.

If you parse that as "Tyranny does C&C as well as/better than/worse than/differently than/the same way as AoD" then you're reading something into the statement that just isn't there.

I would dearly love to see more games give the kind of attention to world-building, story branching, choice, and consequence that has gone into Tyranny. Other than Age of Decadence, coincidentally also set in a grim pre-Medieval world, this hasn’t been done in this scale in recent years.

IN THIS SCALE

look at me parse.

You're not writing a fucking advertisement. Be exact with you words and comparisons.

You can't say they're anywhere near similar in scale based on your (non-)experience with one of the games, unless you're willing to work off assumptions and second hand observations (carrying an inherent risk of distortion.) And if you'd have played AoD, notwithstanding whether it "grabbed" you and maybe shook you like the self-portrayed survivor of Codexian abuse you posture as, you'd have realized by now how hollow a comparison you provide to the reader.

If you want to write some lazy review, despite what appears to be your pride and effort towards this one, then go do it on the Watch.

 

[Jim the Dinosaur]

I'm not implicitly arguing anything. I'm just pointing out that other than AoD (and to a much lesser extent, The Witcher 2, which I reference elsewhere) branching story hasn't been a priority for cRPGs in recent years (which I think is a shame). I still fail to see what's the least bit controversial about that.

I don't think it's uncontroversial to talk about AoD's approach to C&C as a matter of higher priorities or greater deal of attention paid than in other cRPG's, as opposed to expressing a fundamentally different approach to RPG's. More or less in the same way as it'd be controversial to say that Sawyer's approach to design is simply a matter of him paying more attention to balancing his systems than other developers do.

In both cases it isn't purely a question of fleshing out a game, but also of making the conscious decision to sacrifice elements in the process (player agency in the AoD case, wacky impossible to balance abilities in the other).

 

[Prime Junta]

talk about AoD's approach to C&C

I wasn't talking about AoD's approach to C&C at all. ALL I said was that, like Tyranny, it devoted a lot of attention to it. Anything more you're reading into it comes from your mind, not mine.

If I'm mistaken about that statement – that AoD devotes a lot of attention to C&C – then I'll have to withdraw the statement and humbly apologise. Am I mistaken about it?

 

[Prime Junta]

look at me parse

Yeah, that is some impressive parsing man.

Suppose somebody decides to build a replica of the Preußen (ca 5000 tons). Call it the RSS Decadence.

Then suppose somebody decides to build a replica of the Cutty Sark (ca 960 tons). Call it the RSS Tyranny.

Then, in a review describing my experiences sailing on the RSS Tyranny, suppose I state, "Other than the RSS Decadence, sailing vessels on the scale of RSS Tyranny have not been built in recent years."

Other than saying that both are a lot bigger than other sailing vessels built in recent years, am I saying anything at all about RSS Decadence?

 

[Lurker King]

It's not a small problem. It's very hypocritical to mock AAA reviewers for name-dropping games they don't play then have the same thing happening in our content.

If these reviewers were making comparisons about game features they can only attest playing, that would be true. I bet that if he decided to include Alpha Protocol without playing it nobody would be saying anything about ethical jornalism and standards here.

You're right that it's pedantic, we are pedant assholes. But it's not over nothing. It's about not allowing a reviewer saying positive things about AoD in a Obsidian review. We can't let that happen. What's next? Indies receiving decent coverage on the news page? That's an absurd. Everybody knows that Obsidian is special even if they only make shitty games

Fixed.

PrimeJunta: (1) tyranny was not a particularly enjoyable game

Great review, accurate, brief and hands down PJs best work. When is it getting published?

When the line about AoD is removed.

 

[duanth123]

Other than saying that both are a lot bigger than other sailing vessels built in recent years, am I saying anything at all about RSS Decadence?

Yes, you're saying that the USS Tyranny is qualitatively similar to the RSS Decadence and vice versa.

Even though in reality the Tyranny is a poorly disguised rowboat, and the Decadence a much more advanced ship than you know, you having spent next to no time on the boat aside from a superficial pass through and maybe a quick glance at a few advertisements.

And then, to continue with the analogy, you proceed to extoll the virtues of the rowboat to your peers, in a town forum (perhaps the only) dedicated to the critical review of ship design and implementation, by invoking positive characteristics of the much more advanced ship.

Somehow managing the dual feat of both minimizing the advanced nature of the Decadence and misleading others into false expectations that the Tyranny is more than a disguised rowboat, which was really never intended to equally class the Decadence anyway.

And finally, sparing no opportunity to express incredulity, indignation, dismissiveness, or some combination of all three when others simply point out that the only true similarity between the ship and the boat is that they both float on water and are designed for transportation.

DESPITE having no apparent reason or motivation to do any of the above (having received zero remuneration and with no financial stake in either ships manufacturer.)

Laziness and perhaps the entitlement of knowing yourself to be among the least lazy of the resident ship critics being the most logical explanation.

 

[Darth Roxor]

rpgcodex truly doesn't sail to your level

 

[Excidium II]

You're right that it's pedantic, we are pedant assholes. But it's not over nothing. It's about not allowing a reviewer saying positive things about AoD in a Obsidian review. We can't let that happen. What's next? Indies receiving decent coverage on the news page? That's an absurd. Everybody knows that Obsidian is special even if they only make shitty games

Fixed.

Are you this upset that the only time AoD is mentioned is to raise the quality of a mediocre Obsidian game by association?

 

[Prime Junta]

Yes, you're saying that the USS Tyranny is qualitatively similar to the RSS Decadence and vice versa.

Yes, I'm stating that both are sailing vessels. As in, both are cRPGs which emphasise branching story.

Haba's characterisation of Tyranny's C&C by the way is incorrect (or in Codexian terms, he's either ignorant or lying). If you pick a different side after the first chapter, you get a different main quest: different quest givers, different objectives, different outcomes. You can also betray the side at multiple points in the game, which further changes the direction.

Spoiler

Examples: if you pick the Scarlet Chorus, your objective will be to kill Cairn while maintaining the Edict of Storms. If you pick the Disfavored, your objective will be to end the Edict of Storms and maintain Cairn alive. If you go solo, Bleden Mark will have you hunting for artefacts and ending Edicts in order to grow your own power. If you pick the rebels, your objective will be to end the Edicts and curry favour with the lesser factions in order to build an anti-Kyros coalition. Each of these paths opens up unique quests, puts you on different sides of the fights, and gives you different secondary objectives.

Moreover, you can betray your chosen alliance at many points along the way, which flips the story onto a different track. And additionally, you get to choose how to deal with Tunon, which determines which Archons will bow to you, which you'll have to fight, and which you can eliminate by other means in the final chapter.

To call this "purely cosmetic flavor text" and "faction sliders" is entirely incorrect. And as stated, other than AoD, I can't think of any games from recent years that do anywhere near this much story branching: the only relatively recent attempt I could think of was The Witcher 2, and that only had two story branches in the middle chapter.

 

[Lurker King]

And as stated, other than AoD, I can't think of any games from recent years that do anywhere near this much story branching: the only relatively recent attempt I could think of was The Witcher 2, and that only had two story branches in the middle chapter.

Undertale.

Are you this upset that the only time AoD is mentioned is to raise the quality of a mediocre Obsidian game by association?

It's free advertising. People are obsessed with Obsidian, but ITS is mostly ignored.

 

[Urthor]

mm so Bubbles is full of shit, has put words in Prime Junta's mouth by writing a shitty clickbait title, and all the while Prime Junta has in fact played (a bit) of Age of Decadence and made an intelligent comparison about the mechanical similarities between two role playing games.

Clearly the management of this site is doing its best to contribute to incline.

Undertale..

Undertale didn't branch. For one the "branching" never occurred in the middle of the playthrough, from the outset you either committed to a pacifist or a genocide playthrough and you followed through, or you got the half and half outcome that 99% of players got on their first playthrough. That's a very different thing from having multiple different decision nexus' spread throughout the story, where you can take one path then another and the gameplay experience is markedly different.

 

[Prime Junta]

the gameplay experience is markedly different

Regrettably the gameplay isn't any different on any of the paths, in fact the gameplay is awfully same-y (and frankly unenjoyable) whatever you do (something I discuss at length in the review).

The overall experience will be though. I played completely through once and about 3/4 through three more times, and it was really striking how differently the quests and outcomes played out. Every run I saw a different set of locations, got a significant number of different quests which I got in different ways, and fought on different sides. That counts as in my book, even as the core gameplay is most painful .