Ultima Underworld vs rest of the series

[Rincewind]

My understanding is this is the best play order of the Ultima series (excluding the entries that are considered absolutely not worth playing):

Akalabeth
Ultima I-VI
Runes of Virtue I-II (Game Boy versions)
The Savage Empire
Martian Dreams
Ultima Underworld I
Ultima VII pt.1
Ultima Underworld II
Ultima VII pt.2
Ultima VIII

I haven't played *any* Ultima games before, so my question: what if I played Underworld I and II completely out of order, before playing any other Ultima games? Would that:

1) spoil any other game of the series in any way?
2) make me miss and not understand certain references to earlier games?

I just have this itch to play UU I (and possibly II) and I don't want to wait 3-4 years until I actually get there by playing through the series strictly chronologically.

 

[<3sRichardSimmons]

Underworld 1 really has nothing to do with Ultima for the most part. It was retrofitted to be part of the franchise fairly late in development, and you really don’t need any knowledge of previous entries in the setting to understand what’s going on.

UU2 is pretty much the opposite though. You will be quite lost if you have not played at least The Black Gate; though that said, Black Gate is probably the second best entry point to the mainline titles, (after U4) for someone who doesn’t have the patience to play the series from U1 (skip Akalabeth unless you are trying to make a scholarly study of cRPGs).


You should absolutely play UU1 immediately though. It’s one of the absolute best and most innovative games ever made, and its ties to the overall setting/storyline are very minor.

 

[Dave the Druid]

Underworld 1? No you should be fine. It's barely connected to the rest of the series. In fact if you play the rest of the series first you'll realize that the whole plot (specifically the opening cutscene and inciting incident) makes no goddamn sense. And that's if you're not distracted by some of the worst voice acting ever put into a computer game.

Underworld 2? Yeah, a little bit. Since they knew it was going to be an Ultima game from the start they tried to tie it in to the plot of Ultima VII. It's not THAT big a deal overall though but it will spoil a couple of things, mostly from VII.

You should absolutely play UU1 immediately though. It’s one of the absolute best and most innovative games ever made.

This. It still holds up pretty damn well. Well, other than the jumping physics but that's kinda forgivable for 92.

 

[Rincewind]

You should absolutely play UU1 immediately though. It’s one of the absolute best and most innovative games ever made, and its ties to the overall setting/storyline are very minor.

Yeah, I'm very much drawn to it! Planning to play it on real hardware with a CRT monitor Unsure yet whether MT-32 or Dual OPL is better, but I'm a bit partial towards the Dual OPL soundtrack. Feels darker and moodier somehow.

Black Gate is probably the second best entry point to the mainline titles, (after U4) for someone who doesn’t have the patience to play the series from U1 (skip Akalabeth unless you are trying to make a scholarly study of cRPGs).

I do have the patience, plus it's not exactly a "scholarly study", but I'm playing through all the classics starting from about 1977 because I find the evolution of RPG and adventure games fascinating. So yeah, partly for enjoyment, and partly for historical "study" (which I also happen to enjoy).

It's just that I'm jumping between timelines a bit; doing this strictly chronologicaly a la CPRG Addict would drive me crazy... Ultima Underworld is the entry point to my Looking Glass / immersive-sim mini-timeline, and I really want to play UU before System Shock to appreciate how Looking Glass evolved their ideas. I'll play UU now then, and UUII later as part of my grand Ultima playthrough.

In fact if you play the rest of the series first you'll realize that the whole plot (specifically the opening cutscene and inciting incident) makes no goddamn sense. And that's if you're not distracted by some of the worst voice acting ever put into a computer game.

I actually absolutely *adore* that intro and love the over-the-top voice-acting! I really have a soft spot for such theatrical goofiness; I wish there were a lot more games that don't take themselves seriously like that. I'm in love with the Might & Magic games too for similar reasons. Battlespire is another one, and of course, I really like all FMV games that feature over-the-top 80s-style acting. But then, I unironically love hair-metal too!

 

[Dave the Druid]

I do have the patience, plus it's not exactly a "scholarly study", but I'm playing through all the classics starting from about 1977 because I find the evolution of RPG and adventure games fascinating. So yeah, partly for enjoyment, and partly for historical "study" (which I also happen to enjoy).

It's just that I'm jumping between timelines a bit; doing this strictly chronologicaly a la CPRG Addict would drive me crazy... Ultima Underworld is the entry point to my Looking Glass / immersive-sim mini-timeline, and I really want to play UU before System Shock to appreciate how Looking Glass evolved their ideas. I'll play UU now then, and UUII later as part of my grand Ultima playthrough.

If you're doing that I'd actually recommend going Wizardry 1 -> Dungeon Master -> Ultima Underworld if you want to see the evolution of first-person RPGs in general. Admittedly I enjoyed those games backwards too though so what the fuck do I know?

Can I also shill Ultima Underworld Portable again? It's for the GOG versions, works with both 1 and 2, has DOSBox Staging properly set up, includes the MT-32 Roms so the music's good now, has a slight brightness mod and a toggle for more modern wasd+mouselook controls that you can turn off or on in the launcher. Oh, and you can play the first game in Portuguese! Finally! Would recommend using it unless the source code gets leaked in the next 24 hours and someone finally makes a decent source port.

Edit: Somehow I didn't notice you said you were planning on playing in original hardware. That's dope. Disregard the last paragraph.

 

[Rincewind]

If you're doing that I'd actually recommend going Wizardry 1 -> Dungeon Master -> Ultima Underworld if you want to see the evolution of first-person RPGs in general. Admittedly I enjoyed those games backwards too though so what the fuck do I know?

Yeah, I'm close to finishing my Wizardry 1 playthrough on the Commodore 128, actually Good tip though.

Edit: Didn't notice you said you were planning on playing in original hardware. That's dope. Disregard the last paragraph.

All good man. I'm a DOSBox Staging dev, so I approve of that Ultima Underworld Portable thing, wasn't aware of it. Btw, I like playing originals unaltered, without mouselook and such "quality of life" patches. I think that can change the gameplay too much. Generally, I stay away from mods and am interested in the devs original, unaltered vision.

 

[Ash]

I do have the patience, plus it's not exactly a "scholarly study", but I'm playing through all the classics starting from about 1977 because I find the evolution of RPG and adventure games fascinating. So yeah, partly for enjoyment, and partly for historical "study" (which I also happen to enjoy).

It's just that I'm jumping between timelines a bit; doing this strictly chronologicaly a la CPRG Addict would drive me crazy... Ultima Underworld is the entry point to my Looking Glass / immersive-sim mini-timeline, and I really want to play UU before System Shock to appreciate how Looking Glass evolved their ideas. I'll play UU now then, and UUII later as part of my grand Ultima playthrough.

If you're doing that I'd actually recommend going Wizardry 1 -> Dungeon Master -> Ultima Underworld if you want to see the evolution of first-person RPGs in general. Admittedly I enjoyed those games backwards too though so what the fuck do I know?

Why stop there and not at where the fantasy First Person RPG progression truly ended: Arx Fatalis (2003) & Morrowind (2003)?

 

[Rincewind]

Zed Duke of Banville and octavius, do you still stand by your earlier suggestions regarding character builds? I don't find having to restart N times because of unviable builds very entertaining—especially if the problems only become obvious after 5-10 hours of playing.

https://rpgcodex.net/forums/threads/the-ultima-underworld-i-ii-thread.72708/post-4878716
https://rpgcodex.net/forums/threads/the-ultima-underworld-i-ii-thread.72708/post-4878867

That's also a good point about turning the background music off octavius; I too find constant music immersion-breaking and pretty annoying in most RPGs (adventures are a different matter, though).

 

[Trithne]

No, he has to go to the true final death of the genre: Underworld Ascendent.

 

[Ash]

Honestly we shouldn't even mention that game even as a joke. More exposure than it deserves.

 

[Spukrian]

what if I played Underworld I and II completely out of order, before playing any other Ultima games?

I've played through both Underworlds without having played any other Ultima games and I made it hrough fine.

In other words: go for it!

suggestions regarding character builds? I don't find having to restart N times because of unviable builds very entertaining—especially if the problems only become obvious after 5-10 hours of playing.

Str at least 25 is the way to go on the first playthrough. Druid is a good class for the first playthrough. I played a fighter though and didn't have issues.

Good skills to focus in: Attack, Defense, one weapon skill, Mana, Casting. You don't need anything else really.

Beware of possible softlocking though :

Minor spoiler

On one level there is a woman on the edge of a lava river. Sometimes she falls into the lava and dies. If this happens before she has given you the Plot Important Item, you have to reload an earlier save.

To avoid this, whenever I entered the level she's in, I beelined to her position and pushed her far away from the edge. Not a foolproof solution as she moves around occasionally and like I said, whenever you enter the level she's back at the edge.

 

[Zed Duke of Banville]

Zed Duke of Banville and octavius, do you still stand by your earlier suggestions regarding character builds? I don't find having to restart N times because of unviable builds very entertaining—especially if the problems only become obvious after 5-10 hours of playing.

https://rpgcodex.net/forums/threads/the-ultima-underworld-i-ii-thread.72708/post-4878716
https://rpgcodex.net/forums/threads/the-ultima-underworld-i-ii-thread.72708/post-4878867

That's also a good point about turning the background music off octavius; I too find constant music immersion-breaking and pretty annoying in most RPGs (adventures are a different matter, though).

IIRC, I've posted more detail elsewhere on character customization in Ultima Underworld: The Stygian Abyss, but as with many CRPGs that implement a skill system, some skills are bugged, some skills are useless even if operating as intended, and other skills can be ignored so long as you pursue one in a group of related skills (melee weapons). You should not feel any reluctance to look up detailed information about the skills in either of the Underworld games prior to creating your character. As far as class and attributes are concerned, you need to choose a class that will provide you with high strength (especially, due to encumbrance) and intelligence, so probably either a paladin or a druid.

 

[Rincewind]

You should not feel any reluctance to look up detailed information about the skills in either of the Underworld games prior to creating your character. As far as class and attributes are concerned, you need to choose a class that will provide you with high strength (especially, due to encumbrance) and intelligence, so probably either a paladin or a druid.

Thanks for the useful tips. I'll play a bodybuilder druid then!

 

[Spike]

Best to play UU in original DOS or Unity? I would like mouselook but I'm not sure if that would hurt immersion/intention. Can any veteran weigh in? I'm not committing some grognard sin by playing with mouselook or Unity am I? I would really prefer mouselook...

 

[hayst]

Best to play UU in original DOS or Unity? I would like mouselook but I'm not sure if that would hurt immersion/intention. Can any veteran weigh in? I'm not committing some grognard sin by playing with mouselook or Unity am I? I would really prefer mouselook...

I was recommended the Ultima Underworld Portable patch which includes mouse look.

GitHub link can be found with some information here:

https://www.pcgamingwiki.com/wiki/Ultima_Underworld:_The_Stygian_Abyss

Couldn't tell you about the unity version though.

 

[Spike]

Best to play UU in original DOS or Unity? I would like mouselook but I'm not sure if that would hurt immersion/intention. Can any veteran weigh in? I'm not committing some grognard sin by playing with mouselook or Unity am I? I would really prefer mouselook...

I was recommended the Ultima Underworld Portable patch which includes mouse look.

GitHub link can be found with some information here:

https://www.pcgamingwiki.com/wiki/Ultima_Underworld:_The_Stygian_Abyss

Couldn't tell you about the unity version though.

Thank you, this is the link I was going to use originally. Might try the GOG release as-is first. Apparently it is intuitive the way Gothic 1 and 2's controls are once you get used to it. I like Gothic's control scheme once you re-bind to WASD movement.

 

[JarlFrank]

Ultima 1 -> 2 -> 3 are your basic fantasy games with sci-fi elements mixed in (especially 2), the story barely matters beyond "Player kills X and befriends Y" which is literally all you need to know for the following Ultima games.

Ultima 4 is where the "proper" Ultima story begins. 4 -> 5 -> 6 -> 7 -> Underworld 2 are all related in their overall storyline about the Avatar and the virtues.

 

[Spike]

Ultima 1 -> 2 -> 3 are your basic fantasy games with sci-fi elements mixed in (especially 2), the story barely matters beyond "Player kills X and befriends Y" which is literally all you need to know for the following Ultima games.

Ultima 4 is where the "proper" Ultima story begins. 4 -> 5 -> 6 -> 7 -> Underworld 2 are all related in their overall storyline about the Avatar and the virtues.

Obviously I'm not OP but would it be sensible to play in this order?:
Underworld 1 -> 4 -> 5 -> 6 -> 7 -> Underworld 2
I am just really more in the mood for an immersive sim, especially the grand-daddy master of the genre, more than a classic CRPG right now.

 

[JarlFrank]

Ultima 1 -> 2 -> 3 are your basic fantasy games with sci-fi elements mixed in (especially 2), the story barely matters beyond "Player kills X and befriends Y" which is literally all you need to know for the following Ultima games.

Ultima 4 is where the "proper" Ultima story begins. 4 -> 5 -> 6 -> 7 -> Underworld 2 are all related in their overall storyline about the Avatar and the virtues.

Obviously I'm not OP but would it be sensible to play in this order?:
Underworld 1 -> 4 -> 5 -> 6 -> 7 -> Underworld 2
I am just really more in the mood for an immersive sim, especially the grand-daddy master of the genre, more than a classic CRPG right now.

Yes, since Underworld 1 is completely standalone you can play it at any time you want. It has nothing to do with Ultima beyond the name.

The story doesn't even make a lot of sense within Ultima context and makes more sense when you consider it outside of Ultima lore.

 

[Spike]

So I fired this up and love it, but man the movement is super jank. Way more than I anticipated. Still do-able, but what is annoying is the movement in combat, especially moving toward/away from your opponent. Just playing the GOG version. Debating if I should just deal with it or try out some mod, though I doubt any mod can make the keyboard movement better.

 

[Butter]

In my experience, it's best to tilt the camera slightly down from its neutral position, and just leave it there unless you need to adjust it for platforming. WADX handles movement (S oddly causes you to move forward very slowly). You can move with the mouse, but it's not a great idea.

 

[Spike]

In my experience, it's best to tilt the camera slightly down from its neutral position, and just leave it there unless you need to adjust it for platforming. WADX handles movement (S oddly causes you to move forward very slowly). You can move with the mouse, but it's not a great idea.

Yes I've been mostly moving with WADX, and use Z and C to slightly move to the side slowly if I'm coming upon a turn in case there is danger. Appreciate the tip, how do I tilt the camera? I do like the sound of that.

 

[Butter]

In my experience, it's best to tilt the camera slightly down from its neutral position, and just leave it there unless you need to adjust it for platforming. WADX handles movement (S oddly causes you to move forward very slowly). You can move with the mouse, but it's not a great idea.

Yes I've been mostly moving with WADX, and use Z and C to slightly move to the side slowly if I'm coming upon a turn in case there is danger. Appreciate the tip, how do I tilt the camera? I do like the sound of that.

1 to tilt down, 3 to tilt up.

 

[IDtenT]

All these posts make me nostalgic.

 

[PorkyThePaladin]

Play UU1. Regardless of what you played before, how many men your mother slept with, your political beliefs, and the length of your cunt.

As some other cunts above have already mentioned, 'tis one of the greatest games ever made, one of VERY few games made prior to 1996 worth playing today, and in terms of "intelligent gameplay" has no competition. The "puzzles" in this game are like having sex with Margot Beckinsale while Kate Robbie licks your balls.

It is also the progenitor of almost every gaming lineage of note. System Shocks, Thieves, Bioshocks, Deus Exes, Elder Scrolls, Arx Fatalises, Dishonoreds, etc, they all descend from this game.