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Ultima Underworld vs rest of the series

EtcEtcEtc

Savant
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Jan 16, 2017
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Ultima 1 -> 2 -> 3 are your basic fantasy games with sci-fi elements mixed in (especially 2), the story barely matters beyond "Player kills X and befriends Y" which is literally all you need to know for the following Ultima games.

Ultima 4 is where the "proper" Ultima story begins. 4 -> 5 -> 6 -> 7 -> Underworld 2 are all related in their overall storyline about the Avatar and the virtues.
Obviously I'm not OP but would it be sensible to play in this order?:
Underworld 1 -> 4 -> 5 -> 6 -> 7 -> Underworld 2
I am just really more in the mood for an immersive sim, especially the grand-daddy master of the genre, more than a classic CRPG right now.


Get that mouselook you were asking about. Underworld isn't great because of it's archaic controls, it's great in spite of them. I didn't even know a mouselook mod was available, makes me want to go replay.

Also try Ultima IV, but know that by modern standards it's a little jank. Ultima V is the same design more or less, but much better, so if you bounce off IV just move on to V.
 

Rincewind

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Best to play UU in original DOS or Unity? I would like mouselook but I'm not sure if that would hurt immersion/intention. Can any veteran weigh in? I'm not committing some grognard sin by playing with mouselook or Unity am I? I would really prefer mouselook...
It's almost always best to play the original games. Mouselook might completely break/trivialise important aspects of a game. Same for all similar "QoL" additions.

Go for the Original Experience(TM), do not accept potentially inferior fan-made remakes!
 
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So I fired this up and love it, but man the movement is super jank. Way more than I anticipated. Still do-able, but what is annoying is the movement in combat, especially moving toward/away from your opponent. Just playing the GOG version. Debating if I should just deal with it or try out some mod, though I doubt any mod can make the keyboard movement better.
"super jank" is faggot zoomer talk, go back to reeera and never come back
 

LarryTyphoid

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Rincewind
I might be too late here, but I think you should play the previous Ultima games before Underworld 1. Not for story reasons (although knowing the Avatar's status in previous games does add to his predicament in UW1 to some measure), but for gameplay reasons. For me, having knowledge of Ultima 5's rune spellcasting system made me enjoy Underworld a lot more, because it uses the exact same system, just recontextualized. If you remember spells from U5, you can use them right away in UW1 even if they're not listed in the manual's spellbook, before you find the required incantation written in the game itself. If you remember the meaning of each rune character, then you can even deduce how to cast new spells. The same applies to the mantras; UW1 requires you to type in mantras at shrines to level up, and a lot of the mantras are the same ones you use at shrines from U4 onwards; so if you remember the meaning of each mantra and how it ties in to each virtue, and how those in turn tie in to your PC's attributes, then you can use that knowledge to your advantage.

None of this is really necessary; the manual explains most of it, and you're not gonna miss out on any spells or anything, because all that stuff can be found in-game through hidden notes. But for me, taking my knowledge from previous Ultima games to Ultima Underworld created a really awesome sense of continuity. In fact, gameplay continuity is what Ultima as a series does so well in every entry after U4. If you're really a stickler about playing Underworld before System Shock, then just go ahead; System Shock is too good of a game to be left waiting while you complete 8 other games. But in my opinion, you should play all the Ultima games in order, and play System Shock separately as its own thing, rather than seeing it strictly as a successor to Ultima Underworld.
 

EtcEtcEtc

Savant
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So I fired this up and love it, but man the movement is super jank. Way more than I anticipated. Still do-able, but what is annoying is the movement in combat, especially moving toward/away from your opponent. Just playing the GOG version. Debating if I should just deal with it or try out some mod, though I doubt any mod can make the keyboard movement better.
"super jank" is faggot zoomer talk, go back to reeera and never come back

The controls are shit - and they aren't shit because it somehow makes the game better, they are shit because they hadn't figured out how best to move someone in 3d space.

Or are you such an autist you're playing Doom mapped to the original arrow keys with control to shoot.
 

Rincewind

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Rincewind
I might be too late here, but I think you should play the previous Ultima games before Underworld 1. Not for story reasons (although knowing the Avatar's status in previous games does add to his predicament in UW1 to some measure), but for gameplay reasons. For me, having knowledge of Ultima 5's rune spellcasting system made me enjoy Underworld a lot more, because it uses the exact same system, just recontextualized. If you remember spells from U5, you can use them right away in UW1 even if they're not listed in the manual's spellbook, before you find the required incantation written in the game itself. If you remember the meaning of each rune character, then you can even deduce how to cast new spells. The same applies to the mantras; UW1 requires you to type in mantras at shrines to level up, and a lot of the mantras are the same ones you use at shrines from U4 onwards; so if you remember the meaning of each mantra and how it ties in to each virtue, and how those in turn tie in to your PC's attributes, then you can use that knowledge to your advantage.

None of this is really necessary; the manual explains most of it, and you're not gonna miss out on any spells or anything, because all that stuff can be found in-game through hidden notes. But for me, taking my knowledge from previous Ultima games to Ultima Underworld created a really awesome sense of continuity. In fact, gameplay continuity is what Ultima as a series does so well in every entry after U4. If you're really a stickler about playing Underworld before System Shock, then just go ahead; System Shock is too good of a game to be left waiting while you complete 8 other games. But in my opinion, you should play all the Ultima games in order, and play System Shock separately as its own thing, rather than seeing it strictly as a successor to Ultima Underworld.
Thanks, that was super informative. Yeah, I really love that sense of continuity in a game series, and I prefer not to ruin it (even when it's just about diminishing but not completely ruining it). The good news is that I don't have any time to play anything at all currently :) But yeah, most likely I'll do the strict chronological route through the Ultimas then, and treat SS as a separate game.
 
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I tried running UW1 with the Portable executable but I'm not getting any sound whatsoever - I checked the dosbox.conf file and it seems fine (setup for MT32, roms in the correct locations, etc.).

Any ideas?
 

KeighnMcDeath

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Hey! I like numpad/arrow keys movement. Last few times I installed It ran like crap for some reason (but J eas using some file transfer from obe of my older computers to my laptop. I think there was one further time I used gog install and it ran fine. I'd have to di thaf again. Never knew of a mouse-look mod. It'd be interesting to compare.

I'd have to listen to the OST. From memory it was ok or good. (Combat & injured can maybe get annoying)
OST LIST
Around this time I had a pile of games UU1, TES:Arena, System Shock, Terminator Future Shock (I was an idiot and didn't get skynet), and maybe i had Daggerfall. I was jumping around a bit playing each one. If i recall, most of these games were loaners from a software shop where you rent pc games and could buy the used copies. I bought a few (u7 was one and it was in rough shape). Everyone copied the games and scanned the shit. Piracy i guess but the dude renting then orobably wasn't legit even if it was a shop in a strip mall.

Later, through software sales i had plenty of ultima copies and UU1 was on a few discs. One set had both UU1-2, and one had the entire Ultima compilation. And then GOG of course.

I spent a lot of time messing with alts on this. A lot of crappier alts died. I remember dying from traps on one level a hell of a lot.

Was it flying mobs that initially gave me a shit time?
 

LarryTyphoid

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Just play without mouselook. Don't be a fag. I'm younger than everyone in this thread and I adjusted to the controls within 10 minutes. With the absence of leaning and other advanced movement, Underworld's controls are much simpler than System Shock's or Strike Force Centauri's.
 

Spike

Educated
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So I have nothing installed, but on the naked GOG version there is still some kind of primitive mouselook...? Am I misunderstanding something? It is a giant pain to move the cursor, but I still can with the mouse. While also moving with WAXD. But it is a total bitch to move the cursor, it is kind of stuttery.

Only the first level and I'm already impressed by how intricate the very first floor is. Talked to some grey goblin and he told me about the king and queen.
 

Rincewind

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But it is a total bitch to move the cursor, it is kind of stuttery.
Yes, the mouse stutter thing is present on real hardware too, I was able to 100% replicate it... We've spent a *long* time trying to "fix" this in DOSBox Staging; it's unfixable without actually altering the game's code and fixing the mouse routine itself... It's *not* an emulation problem!

What you can do is to set mouse sensitivity to 200% in the DOSBox config (anything lower won't do, you'll still get stuttering movement with 199, only 200 will do), then set the mouse speed at the operating system level to slow and/or turn of mouse acceleration. So put "sensitivity = 200" in the [sdl] section in your config (if using regular old DOSBox).

Yeah it sucks, but that's the only way to make the mouse movement smooth in DOSBox. And on real hardware, people just had to (and still have to) live with it. If you give your mouse movements a little "acceleration" every time you move the mouse, it's fine. There's a "threshold" you need to go above for the mouse to start moving, and need to keep the movement speed above that threshold while moving. E.g. if you move the mouse veeeeeeery slowly, no matter how far you've moved it, there will be zero mouse pointer movement because you're staying below the threshold...
 

octavius

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Hmm...I once played UU using the mouse for everything but saving and loading (and writing on the auto-map), and I don't recall having any problems.
 
Last edited:

Butter

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Last time I played the game, I was tabbing out of DOSBox to make notes in a Notepad file and the mouse would get screwed up when I tabbed back. I fixed it by just tabbing out and in again. If you use paper notes you can avoid even that.
 

Rincewind

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It's no problem running UW from DOSBox Staging (in fact the Portable project uses Staging) - I did a run a couple years ago, I just wanted to use this new executable for novelty. Oh well.
 

Rincewind

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It's no problem running UW from DOSBox Staging (in fact the Portable project uses Staging) - I did a run a couple years ago, I just wanted to use this new executable for novelty. Oh well.
Who knows. They screwed something up -> their problem :shrug: Maybe raise a bug report?
 

mondblut

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My understanding is this is the best play order of the Ultima series (excluding the entries that are considered absolutely not worth playing):

You are being very generous, there is hardly a reason to play anything before 4 or 3 at best. And gameboi? LMAO.

I haven't played *any* Ultima games before, so my question: what if I played Underworld I and II completely out of order, before playing any other Ultima games? Would that:
1) spoil any other game of the series in any way?
2) make me miss and not understand certain references to earlier games?

UUW2 is sort of a direct sequel to U7, so yeah, you gotta be puzzled who the hell are all of these people who seem to know you and what "guardian" are they talking about. UUW1 is entirely self-contained.
 

octavius

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Last time I played the game, I was tabbing out of DOSBox to make notes in a Notepad file and the mouse would get screwed up when I tabbed back. I fixed it by just tabbing out and in again. If you use paper notes you can avoid even that.
Or you can use the auto-map to write notes on.
 
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Props to the gentlefolk who linked the UU Portable mod! Now I can finally play this at long last, loooong after I bought it.
 

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