Ultima VII: Why would anyone use Exult over Dosbox?

[Unkillable Cat]

The key ring fan made mod has 1 new side quest (which was done quite well, and fully stays in character within the lore and the setting). What instability are you talking about?

CTD's. I've never been able to find out what's causing them either.

 

[Jaesun]

When deciding which engine to use to run Ultima VII, it really boils down to some small preferences, which I will discuss later. Here however are the facts Jack:

DOSBOX

Run the exciting original game in all it's exploitable* and game-breaking** buggy awesomeness.

PROS

- It's the original. Nothing at all is changed.

CONS

- It's the original. Noting at all is changed.
- DOSBOX performance can be good or bad depending on your computer.
- You are stuck with the default 320 x 200 resolution (but you can use 2x or 3x scaling)
- As the only(?) person at the codex that physically owns a Roland MT-32 the sounds are quite often buggy at times. It's really fucking annoying to me.

EXULT

(My observations are based off the current Exult 1.5.x Snapshots dated 2011-03-02 22:46)

Run the exciting original game with plot-stopping and game-breaking bugs fixed as well as a dazzling array of very nice enhancements but with a few minor non implemented features present in the original.

PROS

- All game-breaking bugs** present in the original are fixed.
- The sheer amount of enhancements would take an entire topic post due to the large amount of them. Suffice to say, it is much more user-friendly now and less fucking annoying than the original.
- A number of dialogue bugs are fixed.
- Ultima VII looks fucking gorgeous in a 800 x 600 resolution to me.
- You can hear all the sounds and music as played through a Roland Mt-32 (since most people do not own one) as the game was originally written for this old sound card.


CONS
- Stealing and killing NPC's is only slightly implemented, this will be added later.
- The loot tables are wacky and you get way more gold that the original, as well as not getting items that are dropped in the original. This needs to be addressed. Though getting money even in the original is laughable.
- The combat is.... different. Let's be honest here however. The combat in U VII is fucking shit. It always was, however the "feel" of combat is different than what was present in the original.
- Some NPC schedules are kind of strange, but unless you sit and stare at them for a long time you probably would never notice.
- Corpses (currently) are block-able objects and can get a tad annoying. They are however working on fixing this.

If any of the above CONS make you boil over in an uncontrollable fit of pure rage, well then just play the DOSBOX version. Just be aware of the game breaking bugs**.

For me *personally* I love the Exult version. Most of the time when I have the urge to play U VII and just fuck around a little bit, the Exult version is simply the much more user friendly version. The lack of fully implemented stealing I know makes Elwro and a few other Ultima BRO's™ here rage, but I found stealing not a big deal to me as getting money in Ultima VII is laughable at best (though their comments are lulzy when you do steal and don't use the exploits as well as when they leave your party because of this or killing NPC's). Personally the broken loot drops (in BG) and the different “feel” of the combat are the only 2 things I do not like personally. These few annoyances become less annoying when enjoying the multitude of enhanced option and increased user-friendliness of the Exult version

Though I do have to admit every few years or so I get the urge and just play the goddamned original in DOSBOX the way the good lord intended, and then frantically pressing the “k” key and then realizing I can't use that handy new short-cut, and then missing the in game notebook, the optional SI paper dolls in BG, the large number of save games, the higher resolution, the optional face status bars at the bottom, the right click to close a container, oh shit! I just walked to Minoc and the game breaking plot-specific scene didn't load... reload....

* The well known Iolo the Thief™ exploit to name one. There is too many to mention them all.
**If you play the DOSBOX version: ALWAYS WALK TO Minoc. DO NOT use the carpet, or horse. WALK THERE. Period. Also NEVER EVER EVER Fly over the Isle of the Avatar with the magic carpet. And thirdly (this is not game breaking IIRC), Dead NPC's like to come back to life, which is a kind of amusing bug to see.

A complete list of bugs can be found here: The Codex of Ultima Wisdom

 

[Unkillable Cat]

- The loot tables are wacky and you get way more gold that the original, as well as not getting items that are dropped in the original. This needs to be addressed. Though getting money even in the original is laughable.

Oh how I remember this. In Serpent Isle I used to drag every chest I could find into the Serpent Pathway and set up "camp" there... though it always ended up being the First National Bank and Trust of Serpent Isle, because I accumulated so much money (all currencies) that I could have used it to physically build a bridge back to Britannia... and that was before I started using the Duplicate Coin spell.

 

[Silellak]

Also NEVER EVER EVER Fly over the Isle of the Avatar with the magic carpet.

Eeeeyup. This one happened to me when I first played through the game as a kid. Oh man, sooooo range inducing. I was confused and thought I'd just missed something, so I called the Origin tech support hotline (remember those?), and they said yup - the door to the final dungeon was permanently locked. The only way to fix it was to put my saved game on a floppy disc and snail-mail it to them (lol what).

I can only imagine the profanities that would've popped into my mind/out of my mouth if I'd been older. Instead, I just restarted the game and made sure to NEVER FLY MY CARPET ANYWHERE NEAR THE ISLE OF THE AVATAR and to RELOAD MY GAME IF I EVEN THOUGHT I HAD COME CLOSE. Ah, to have the free time of youth.

It says a lot about the quality of the game that it's still my favorite RPG of all time despite encountering this major, game-breaking bug right at the end of my very first playthrough.

 

[zelda64whatagreatgame]

actually there's another game breaking bug that i found with dosbox, but with pirated game. every 2 seconds when you walk the game freezes. i don't think i can play it like that. curses that it's so hard to get a real copy of the game, i'm going to ask my dad to check if some of his co-workers has a copy of the game.

 

[Jaesun]

The key ring fan made mod has 1 new side quest (which was done quite well, and fully stays in character within the lore and the setting). What instability are you talking about?

CTD's. I've never been able to find out what's causing them either.

Do you own a legitimate version of Ulitma VII?

 

[Zeus]

They do have a more thorough idea of what went on "under the engine" (?) than anyone here and are not guessing.

Having a thorough idea of the inner workings of Ultima VII and not guessing are not mutually exclusive.

This is a pretty ignorant post

This is just lazy

Thanks for joining the discussion!

 

[Luzur]

Also NEVER EVER EVER Fly over the Isle of the Avatar with the magic carpet.

Eeeeyup. This one happened to me when I first played through the game as a kid. Oh man, sooooo range inducing. I was confused and thought I'd just missed something, so I called the Origin tech support hotline (remember those?), and they said yup - the door to the final dungeon was permanently locked. The only way to fix it was to put my saved game on a floppy disc and snail-mail it to them (lol what).

I can only imagine the profanities that would've popped into my mind/out of my mouth if I'd been older. Instead, I just restarted the game and made sure to NEVER FLY MY CARPET ANYWHERE NEAR THE ISLE OF THE AVATAR and to RELOAD MY GAME IF I EVEN THOUGHT I HAD COME CLOSE. Ah, to have the free time of youth.

It says a lot about the quality of the game that it's still my favorite RPG of all time despite encountering this major, game-breaking bug right at the end of my very first playthrough.

i never thought about it when i did it and noticed the bug much later when i was ready to enter the door.

so i just quit and years later found out the reason why it locked up tightand solution.

didnt have a hotline to call either.

 

[Excommunicator]

CONS
- Stealing and killing NPC's is only slightly implemented, this will be added later.
- The loot tables are wacky and you get way more gold that the original, as well as not getting items that are dropped in the original. This needs to be addressed. Though getting money even in the original is laughable.
- The combat is.... different. Let's be honest here however. The combat in U VII is fucking shit. It always was, however the "feel" of combat is different than what was present in the original.
- Some NPC schedules are kind of strange, but unless you sit and stare at them for a long time you probably would never notice.
- Corpses (currently) are block-able objects and can get a tad annoying. They are however working on fixing this.

Putting them like that makes it sound quite serious. I didn't realise there were quite so many bugs still.

When you've played the original so much you tend to get used to the bugs in it, but any new ones are going to seem even more jarring.

 

[Jaesun]

CONS
- Stealing and killing NPC's is only slightly implemented, this will be added later.
- The loot tables are wacky and you get way more gold that the original, as well as not getting items that are dropped in the original. This needs to be addressed. Though getting money even in the original is laughable.
- The combat is.... different. Let's be honest here however. The combat in U VII is fucking shit. It always was, however the "feel" of combat is different than what was present in the original.
- Some NPC schedules are kind of strange, but unless you sit and stare at them for a long time you probably would never notice.
- Corpses (currently) are block-able objects and can get a tad annoying. They are however working on fixing this.

Putting them like that makes it sound quite serious. I didn't realise there were quite so many bugs still.

When you've played the original so much you tend to get used to the bugs in it, but any new ones are going to seem even more jarring.

As much as I love the Exult team, I will be honest about it (and they are working on fixing these, they actually kick ass on fixing stuff). Having played U VII MULTIPLE times with various SVN builds, these "bugs" are not really that bothersome personally. It's easy to magnify and mention them and go OMG THERE ARE SO MANY BUGS! OMFG!!! OMG OMG OMG! Then there is the reality (when playing it) that they aren't really that serious, just a slight annoyance at this time.

 

[Ammar]

The last two times I played SI with Exult I often had people sititng in the air in taverns. No, I didn't move the chairs. NPCs schedules are not quite there yet. And the game gets very slow when monsters are nearby, which I don't remember but might have been in the original. Your party members trying to find a chair on boats or the carpet is also a pain in the ass. As much as I love Exult I think they concentrate too much on adding exciting new features to their editor and stuff instead of fixing long-standing problems.

 

[Unkillable Cat]

The key ring fan made mod has 1 new side quest (which was done quite well, and fully stays in character within the lore and the setting). What instability are you talking about?

CTD's. I've never been able to find out what's causing them either.

Do you own a legitimate version of Ulitma VII?

Three of them. The original box from when it was first released, a CD-ROM re-release from 1996 called the Complete Ultima VII and the Ultima Collection CD.

Which one do you think I should use?

 

[Jaesun]

The key ring fan made mod has 1 new side quest (which was done quite well, and fully stays in character within the lore and the setting). What instability are you talking about?

CTD's. I've never been able to find out what's causing them either.

Do you own a legitimate version of Ulitma VII?

Three of them. The original box from when it was first released, a CD-ROM re-release from 1996 called the Complete Ultima VII and the Ultima Collection CD.

Which one do you think I should use?

The Ultima Collection CD has the latest version of all the Ultimas. Definitely use U VII from that one.

 

[Daemongar]

They do have a more thorough idea of what went on "under the engine" (?) than anyone here and are not guessing.

Having a thorough idea of the inner workings of Ultima VII and not guessing are not mutually exclusive.

Right, but as someone who has followed Exults progress since it started, my point is that they have discussed to death every aspect of U7 and SI, why SI was finished the way it was, and have spoken with programmers and developers on the ideas behind the games. I think a lot of "Ultima Dragons" moved there to further beat to death all things Ultima. They do spend a lot of time looking into all the aspects of the orignal games, which is quite amazing when you think about how long this project has been going on. If they are guessing, there is a lot of knowledge behind the guesses themselves.

This is a pretty ignorant post

This is just lazy

Thanks for joining the discussion!

Ok, maybe I came across as a jerk, sorry. There are a lot of good reasons to try Exult and be supportive of the developers, and I could rattle off more. It isn't some guys just throwing together some code. This has been a work in progress for over 10 years and has provided ports to Linux, Mac, handhelds and fringe OSs. While U7 on Dosbox is good, you also realize (as Jaesun pointed out), maybe U7 out of the box did have some warts.

 

[Sceptic]

The Ultima Collection CD has the latest version of all the Ultimas. Definitely use U VII from that one.

I think the U7 Collection and the Ultima Collection are identical, but I don't have the U7 Collection so I can't be sure. Still, I agree that if you have the Ultima Collection there's no reason not to play all the games (except possibly U2, and U4 if you want to use xU4) from there.