Game News Underrail Dev Log #55: Global Map

[Drowed]

I don't care much about this fight over whether or not the presence of a map is decline or not. I mean, it's as vague as the old "what is a RPG, DISCUSS".

It's not a matter of being difficult to draw a map on paper/screen, it just sucks. I don't have the patience for that, I didn't have it when I was a teenager, much less now. I don't play RPGs to draw maps, I play RPGs because I like the combat, leveling, character building, C&C, story and setting. Filling tables is something that I already do at work, I don't intend to do it in my spare time.

So, a map like what we have in Fallout 2 is ideal for me. Styg is going for something much beyond that, and well, great. Not having to look for (or make) notes/drawings every time I spend 2 weeks without being able to play the game is very encouraging. If the system of Fallout 2 is decline, then hell yeah I want to go rolling downhill.

 

[Blaine]

Ah yes, I bet navigating a space with no clear distances and occasional impossible geography involves hippocampus, and totally isn't 99.9% memory-based.

While it's true that distances are often truncated and geometry occasionally warped, it's also a microcosmic and simplified world (just about every computer game is) compared to a developed region of the real world. In other words, you have a point, but you're missing the other side of the coin.

A good sense of direction, spatial awareness, and general wayfinding ability are still more than enough to suffice. You speak as though a few game-necessitated "cheats" completely invalidate the functions of the hippocampus. They don't. Memory involving other regions of the brain also plays a part, but that's no bad thing, either.

And it's not like sense of perspective somewhat fades when you have a thousand hours clocked in a game, eh?

Irrelevant. I was quite happy with the lack of a map when I first started playing Underrail, and also my first time through Deep Caverns.

 

[Lios]

It doesn't need a map.
What Underrail and Age of Decadence have in common is sadism towards the player in different flavors.
This is what makes them top notch.

 

[Jack Dandy]

Great!
Map notes is something I really could use, too. Thanks for this Styg!

 

[Zenith]

In other words, you have a point, but you're missing the other side of the coin.

Wasn't really making a point, just goading.
I don't really care either way. I need map/notes as a reminder between playing sessions, but I'm fine without in-game tools for it.

 

[Blaine]

My hippocampus when playing Underrail without a map:

 

[jungl]

I liked about underrail is that its not entirely bullshit you CAN memorize where you going with no map like them daggerfall dungeons. Its not a game where you forced to take out the graph paper like elminage gothic/wizardry with them maze dungeons that put your brain into suicide watch.

It is really silly grognard shit saying people are stupid they cant handle the game cause no map. The reality is 90% people don't want to deal with the annoyance.

 

[Tigranes]

It's ironic that after all this while we get such super detailed maps, when all people wanted probably was a general set of directions

 

[Crescent Hawk]

I would be much agreeable if it was a non trustworthy map like in the Thief games. But this is 2017 people. As long as it does not show too much detail.

 

[Barghest]

1) Maps - Done
2) Improved enemy spawns - To Do
3) Better end-game - To Do

 

[ArchAngel]

It's ironic that after all this while we get such super detailed maps, when all people wanted probably was a general set of directions quest compass

I am pretty sure biggest complainers actually wanted that.

 

[Daedalos]

don't waste my time. Or in this game, your consumer/fanbases time. First principle of good game design.

Be it through slow walking, slow animations or whatever, or a non existing map, making me have to resort to half-assed measures to figure it out.

it's NOT essential to the game, and thus, implementering said features, is a welcome addition that only adds to the game, not subtracts.

Honestly don't understand all the whine and bitching. Having a fucking map has literally no negative impact on gameplay or otherwise. So what's the harm?

Spergs and autists will defend anything they don't agree with, regardless of how retarded it is.

There's a fuckin reason D:OS 2 took me 70 hours to complete, and it wasnt because of the content. It was through shitty NON-QOL features and obstructions, that make the gamer more annoying and tedious and detracts from the experience.

 

[Blaine]

I love how these people just completely lack any sense of perspective (not that that's surprising, given their shrunken hippocampuses). They seem to believe that because they are in the majority who think that Underrail needs a map feature, they are right.

Yet it's majority rule that brought us the ENTIRE decline. Going by popular opinion, Fallout 3 is one of the greatest RPGs ever developed. Furthermore, the great majority of decline was brought on by making games simpler and "more accessible."

don't waste my time. Or in this game, your consumer/fanbases time. First principle of good game design.

Taking the time to figure something out on your own isn't a waste of time unless you're an idiot, newfag.

Indeed, absolute morons who "just want to kick back and relax after work" are major drivers of incline. Anything that's frustrating, too hard, or that requires patience? Bad game design, dude.

 

[Daedalos]

It is really silly grognard shit saying people are stupid they cant handle the game cause no map. The reality is 90% people don't want to deal with the annoyance.

This is exactly what it is.

I'm a grown adult man. I don't want to deal with annoying shit in my games, that serve no other purpose, than to just be annoying and timeconsuming. Shitty game design is what it is. No way around it.

 

[Robespierre]

What you really need is a skip option.

 

[Daedalos]

I love how these people just completely lack any sense of perspective (not that that's surprising, given their shrunken hippocampuses). They seem to believe that because they are in the majority who think that Underrail needs a map feature, they are right.

Yet it's majority rule that brought us the ENTIRE decline. Going by popular opinion, Fallout 3 is one of the greatest RPGs ever developed. Furthermore, the great majority of decline was brought on by making games simpler and "more accessible."

don't waste my time. Or in this game, your consumer/fanbases time. First principle of good game design.

Taking the time to figure something out on your own isn't a waste of time unless you're an idiot, newfag.

Indeed, absolute morons who "just want to kick back and relax after work" are major drivers of incline. Anything that's frustrating, too hard, or that requires patience? Bad game design, dude.

So what you're saying is, we should go back to driving horsewagons, throw out 30 years of computer enginering, technology advancements and so on in the world? Let's live the medieval times, ITS THE ONLY WAY TO BE UBER HARDCORE INCLINE RITE?

We shouldn't use penillicin or vaccines, we shouldn't use any of the fucking progress we've made, because it's better to struggle harder for something, that could easily be achieved in some other way, only smarter.'

Blaine you're completely fucked in the head, seriously.

Figuring out how to be a detective and figuring out a murder case, isn't the fucking same, as figuring out and getting help from your GPS in your car to go to the crime scene, in order for you to save time and solve the crime faster.

 

[Blaine]

I'm a grown adult man. I don't want to deal with annoying shit in my games, that serve no other purpose, than to just be annoying and timeconsuming. Shitty game design is what it is. No way around it.

This is just a marginal iteration of the exact same line of thinking that brought us quest markers, instant fast travel from anywhere, disguised linear corridors, and other garbage aspects of modern game design.

I'm a grown man dude, I have kids! Just lead me from one QuickTime event to the next. If I get lost or frustrated or stuck, you're wasting my time.

Remember, we're talking about a map. The "waste of time" you speak of in this case is developing a sense of direction and an awareness of where you are in the game world. I don't consider this to be a waste of time. You want to know why I'm such a cunt about this issue? BECAUSE ENVIRONMENTAL CHALLENGE HAS BEEN REMOVED FROM ALMOST ALL MODERN GAMES TO SUIT THE PREFERENCES OF IMPATIENT, EASILY-FRUSTRATED RETARDS.

If you have so little free time that it takes weeks to get through one actually good game, you should count yourself lucky.

 

[FeelTheRads]

So what you're saying is, we should go back to driving horsewagons, throw out 30 years of computer enginering, technology advancements and so on in the world? Let's live the medieval times, ITS THE ONLY WAY TO BE UBER HARDCORE INCLINE RITE?

We shouldn't use penillicin or vaccines, we shouldn't use any of the fucking progress we've made, because it's better to struggle harder for something, that could easily be achieved in some other way, only smarter.'

If you actually think those are good analogies you are a cretin.

Having a fucking map has literally no negative impact on gameplay or otherwise.

Negative or otherwise, it has an impact. If you think it doesn't, you are a cretin.

I'm a grown adult man.

Perhaps you should stop playing games then, being so adult and all, and leave gaming to people who enjoy it.

 

[Daedalos]

FeelTheButthurt going into full autism mode.

Watch a show.

 

[Blink]

FeelTheButthurt going into full autism mode.

Watch a show.

I rate this post: salute

 

[jungl]

original sin 2 lol most of those 70 hours is spent in vendors selling and upgrading your gear.

 

[Major_Blackhart]

While I think the inclusion of maps to Underrail is a good thing, I won't be using them.
Part of the atmosphere that I loved was the idea of getting utterly, hopelessly lost within the caves and having to find my way back, using what resources I had to survive.
It could get insanely hair raising if ammo started to run low. Which is another reason I adore the game.
Discovery is part of the fun.

 

[Crescent Hawk]

I'm a grown adult man. I don't want to deal with annoying shit in my games, that serve no other purpose, than to just be annoying and timeconsuming. Shitty game design is what it is. No way around it.

This is just a marginal iteration of the exact same line of thinking that brought us quest markers, instant fast travel from anywhere, disguised linear corridors, and other garbage aspects of modern game design.

I'm a grown man dude, I have kids! Just lead me from one QuickTime event to the next. If I get lost or frustrated or stuck, you're wasting my time.

Remember, we're talking about a map. The "waste of time" you speak of in this case is developing a sense of direction and an awareness of where you are in the game world. I don't consider this to be a waste of time. You want to know why I'm such a cunt about this issue? BECAUSE ENVIRONMENTAL CHALLENGE HAS BEEN REMOVED FROM ALMOST ALL MODERN GAMES TO SUIT THE PREFERENCES OF IMPATIENT, EASILY-FRUSTRATED RETARDS.

If you have so little free time that it takes weeks to get through one actually good game, you should count yourself lucky.

I totally agree with Blaine on this one. I mean we already have plenty Shadow of Mordors and Ubisoft games around to turn off the brain, cant I use some part of my brain to memorize stuff? The feeling of being lost is great and has been ripped from videogames along with good environmental challenges like timing platforming, its like we forgot these are supposed to be interactive experiences.

 

[Jrpgfan]

FeelTheButthurt going into full autism mode.

Watch a show.

I rate this post: salute

I thought Bubbles was back for a sec.

Please change that profile pic, you're not Bubbles.

 

[FeelTheRads]

FeelTheButthurt going into full autism mode.

Watch a show.

Yeah, keep deflecting like a moron.

HURRR SO ANGRY I CANT UNDERSTAND Y PPL DONT AGREE WITH MY PREFERENCES
DURRR WHY R U ANGRY ALL THE TIME LOLOL

And seeing how you went on a retard spree about how games should cater to you and motivate it with some of the most dumdfucked analogies ever conceived, then I have to say, it is you who is autistic. And also a cretin.

30 years of computer engineering for game maps and we can't even appreciate it! OMFG get with the times already!

I rate this post: salute

I rate this post: who the fuck are you and when are you leaving?

Also, speaking of hippocampuses, I fared better in Underrail than I do in real-life when traveling to a new place lul.