Fallout Underwhelmed by Fallout :(

[Infinitron]

If I had to analyze Fallout 1 at a high level, I'd divide it into four sections (spoiler tagged for roshan):

Spoiler

1) Early game - Rat caves up through Shady Sands, Vault 15 and the Raiders. Typical early game stuff. A few nice choices to make, but nothing that would impress any RPG veteran.

2) Mid game - Junktown through the Boneyard. Things get more interesting here, especially in the Hub, but after three instances of "arrive at town, and choose whether to fight with the good sheriff or the evil gangster!" you begin to wonder if they'd run out of ideas. The trip to Necropolis in the middle is cool and breaks the tedium, but there's not a lot you can say about killing a bunch of zombies ghouls and mutants nowadays.

3) The Brotherhood of Steel questline - a cool new faction and a cool dungeon! But ultimately this entire section of the game seems to amount to a lot of busywork that results you in getting the best armor in the game and a plot token that allows you to make the final boss kill himself. It could have been more.

4) The endgame - the assault on the Mariposa Military Base and the Master's Cathedral. This part of the game holds up the best, IMO. Which makes it very cool that they decided to basically make two endgames. Lots of choices, lots of avenues of entry and attack, nothing that feels formulaic. It's better than Fallout 2's endgame.

Like I said, it feels like an indie game, that was made more-or-less from beginning to end with the developers becoming more experienced as they progressed.

 

[Nikaido]

Meanwhile all of fallout 2 is essentially tainted by the mediocrity of the setting and plot. The game feels very aimless because there's not a lot of good motivations for your character to keep on going. Why should I find the GECK? Why should I care about this village of numbnuts when there's actual civilization rebuilding everywhere?
Why should I go against the enclave before learning about their project of killing all humans exposed to radiations? why is this motherfucker haunting my dreams (is this postapo SciFi-ish or did I actually play a Fantasy game)?


That and the hubologists, the rest of sanfran, new reno, wannamingos, a porn industry, talking deathclaws, the motives of the antagonists and their organization structure (compared to FO1) etc, the amount of stupid is just overwhelming and makes it impossible to feel anything for this game.



Yes, I'll go assault that base and risk my hide for this worthless bunch. Sounds like an immensely great plan.

I am glad this game was rushed, by the way. Looking at the direction of the content, not being able to put more of this stuff was a positive, not a negative.

 

[Akratus]

Behead those that insult Fallout 1!

Behead those that insult Fallout 1!

 

[Volrath]

Infinitron has posted a lot of dumb shit these past few years, but this really takes the proverbial cake.

 

[King Crispy]

Fallout hit me in a lot the same way as Baldur's Gate did. At the time, there had been no other game quite like it, only a distant prequel or ancestor that never quite handled the genre like it did. Fallout burst onto the scene with a legit post-apocalyptic setting, in isometric, 3D graphics, and it wasn't just some gimmicky little vault sim or something. It was a full world. All there to explore and to get radiated in.

Baldur's Gate came in and brought before my eyes the first real simulation of playing D&D on my computer. Sure,there were the Gold Box games, and those were great (I played every one of them), but BG promised to deliver more. It had more freedom. It allowed for so many more choices.

These games just weren't that great; we have to admit that. The writing was p. bad at times. There were plenty of holes. Both of them could have sat and baked for another year at least to have fleshed them out more. But I still loved them. Fallout in particular blew my mind because it just seemed like a post-apoc RPG for grownups. I know that sounds stilly but even the manual made me want to eat the thing in huge bites. It was all-consuming in its stark atmosphere and it'll always be one of my favorite RPG's of all time.

Radiated warts and all.

 

[Lios]

FO 1 is hands down the scariest fallout ever, but part of its charm was that it was 1996 ( ? ) and we were much much younger. A young or not adult that has seen so many games till then or a kid that grew up with facebook and iphones might find it difficult if impossible to get swallowed by its atmosphere in 2015. Specially if you heard so many praises for it. Plus issues that were already mentioned by others.

FO 2 is more entertaining and stupid at the same time but I love it, "theme-park" design means separating towns in boxes in your mind while playing plus more content plus it had Cassidy who is one awesome motherfucker.

 

[Forest Dweller]

OP:

You're right, the game doesn't actually have that much going for it compared to modern rpg sensibilities. It hasn't, in fact, aged well in regards to what has come after it. It was, in many ways, a prototype.

Here's the thing about Fallout.

It deserves credit for what it did at its time. This was the first crpg to bring true pnp sensibilities into the game. By this I mean, mainly, the relatively equal application of skills to progress through the gameworld, allowing diplomatic and stealthy solutions to problems. Previous rpgs were combat-focused. In many ways, this game gave birth to what we regard as C&C now. It was revolutionary, and as such is deserving of praise.

Another big feature is the lack of handholding and unspoken assumption of the player's intelligence. This wasn't a new feature, but a carry-over of design sentiments present in the gaming area that it emerged from. Something that got eroded away in the following years.

It is the marriage of these two elements, I think, that makes Fallout so "special" in the eyes of many Codexers.

But like all prototypes, many things were poorly implemented, such as what you've already pointed out. This is only to be expected, as its almost impossible to achieve perfection when trying something new for the first time. But as it set the stage, it allowed for better implementations in future games, such as - "gasp" - Fallout 2. It has been improved upon. This is something that many Codexers have a hard time accepting.

When something is groundbreaking, respect for what it has achieved can often morph into an artificial "gold standard" that all other entries - past, present, and future - become measured against. Flaws are overlooked. Differences are dismissed. This is a common phenomenon in all art forms, not just games. Never mind what these untested new entries may have to offer, what's come before has already been proven. The biggest casualty that occurs as a result of this is the belief - and assumption - that art should progress. This in turn can lead to stagnation. Thankfully, these misplaced beliefs are often not the majority opinion, and so aren't a real hamper on further progress.

Perhaps I'm being too harsh on the Codex. Still, last I checked, Fallout still ranked number one on the "Best RPG" list, so perhaps not.

 

[King Crispy]

Well well, solid post from Dicksmoker! Well done.

 

[J_C]

the game doesn't actually have that much going for it compared to modern rpg sensibilities.

Yeah, modern AAA RPGs have amazing C&C, clever writing, good and fun character systems and turn based combat. It is not like Fallout is still better than 90% of them.

It has been improved upon. This is something that many Codexers have a hard time accepting.

Oh my God, you are right. How blind we were? Dragon Age 2 perfected Fallout, just as Fallout 3. And let's not talk about Mass Effect, it improved Fallout in every regard!

 

[King Crispy]

It's a valid point when taken into the context of what OP is stating.

 

[Vault Dweller]

Yeah, modern AAA RPGs have amazing C&C, clever writing, good and fun character systems and turn based combat. It is not like Fallout is still better than 90% of them.

 

[Vault Dweller]

It's a valid point when taken into the context of what OP is stating.

It's not. How many RPGs that are actually better than Fallout (i.e. do the same things Fallout did but better) can you name?

 

[J_C]

It's a valid point when taken into the context of what OP is stating.

Sorry, I thought we have already established that OP is a faggot, and his post is retarded. I'm not saying that Fallout is perfect, but it's story, writing, characters system, C&C and visual design still holds up today very much. Even its combat system (which I don't like that much) is better than most action crap we get today.

 

[Infinitron]

J_C trying to make up for his famous thread, I see

 

[J_C]

J_C trying to make up for his famous thread, I see

I'm trying. Nah, actually I was only complaining about the combat and some bugs AFAIR, not about the whole game.

 

[Jaesun]

At least J_C's thread was better.

 

[Lyric Suite]

I'm calling bullshit on the whole thread. Fallout wasn't just "great for its time". It is great period. What it does not do is blow your mind with billions of choices of whatever the eXtreme trying too hard crowd think they ought to expect from a so called "masterpiece". Big fucking deal.

Ho, and Fallout's writing was certainly better than that of Baldur's Gate.

 

[Sykar]

I'm trying. Nah, actually I was only complaining about the combat and some bugs AFAIR, not about the whole game.

That's actually a valid criticism. Combat is extremely simple and FO had countless bugs. My favorite were the Ian clones.

 

[gruntar]

Meanwhile all of fallout 2 is essentially tainted by the mediocrity of the setting and plot. The game feels very aimless because there's not a lot of good motivations for your character to keep on going. Why should I find the GECK? Why should I care about this village of numbnuts when there's actual civilization rebuilding everywhere?

I don't know, why should you save Vault 13 when there's actual civilization rebuilding everywhere?

Why should I go against the enclave before learning about their project of killing all humans exposed to radiations?

Because they abducted your fellow villagers and messed with your ancestors vault 13 ? Do you really need a world to be threatened to move your ass in a video game ?

why is this motherfucker haunting my dreams (is this postapo SciFi-ish or did I actually play a Fantasy game)?

Hakunin was a psychic, and existence of psychics was established in Fallout 1, you know this right ?

I am glad this game was rushed, by the way. Looking at the direction of the content, not being able to put more of this stuff was a positive, not a negative.

Now this is a part that made me post, that odd, pointless and bitter hatred that Fallout 1 worshipers express towards anything in a franchise that isn't FO1. I see it a lot here and on NMA and I just don't get it, could someone explain ?

 

[CyberP]

What I found to be underwhelming about FO1 was a lack of interactivity, and the grid-based Overworld...and somewhat derpy combat. Still a classic though.

 

[J_C]

I don't know, why should you save Vault 13 when there's actual civilization rebuilding everywhere?



Because they abducted your fellow villagers and messed with your ancestors vault 13 ? Do you really need a world to be threatened to move your ass in a video game ?



Hakunin was a psychic, and existence of psychics was established in Fallout 1, you know this right ?



Now this is a part that made me post, that odd, pointless and bitter hatred that Fallout 1 worshipers express towards anything in a franchise that isn't FO1. I see it a lot here and on NMA and I just don't get it, could someone explain ?

Now this is how you make you first post on the Codex.

bitter hatred that Fallout 1 worshipers express towards anything in a franchise that isn't FO1....I see it a lot here and on NMA and I just don't get it

I don't think that it is THAT common. Sometimes a lunatic escapes from the mental institute, that's it.

 

[Sykar]

I don't know, why should you save Vault 13 when there's actual civilization rebuilding everywhere?



Because they abducted your fellow villagers and messed with your ancestors vault 13 ? Do you really need a world to be threatened to move your ass in a video game ?



Hakunin was a psychic, and existence of psychics was established in Fallout 1, you know this right ?



Now this is a part that made me post, that odd, pointless and bitter hatred that Fallout 1 worshipers express towards anything in a franchise that isn't FO1. I see it a lot here and on NMA and I just don't get it, could someone explain ?

Nothing to explain, they are just retarded. As you rightfully pointed out, the FO 2 story is basically the same as FO 1: Save your Vault/tribe by finding water chip/GECK, then find and destroy the evil masters/president HQ. Biggest difference is the abduction of your tribe, since Vault 13 gets only destroyed if you wait too long.

I do understand that some people do not like the abundance of cultural references and silliness but that's just personal taste.

 

[Nikaido]

If you think the situation of Fallout's 1 settlements (compared to the comfort of the Vault) and tribal vs real civilization, like the NCR, are analogous, you're fucking retarded and not worth the time spent writing even this line.

 

[Sykar]

Next retard for my ignore list.

 

[CyberP]

Here's the thing about Fallout.

It deserves credit for what it did at its time. This was the first crpg to bring true pnp sensibilities into the game. By this I mean, mainly, the relatively equal application of skills to progress through the gameworld, allowing diplomatic and stealthy solutions to problems. Previous rpgs were combat-focused. In many ways, this game gave birth to what we regard as C&C now. It was revolutionary, and as such is deserving of praise.

From the RPGs I've played, I don't disagree with this. Great C&C, above average design of stat systems.

Another big feature is the lack of handholding and unspoken assumption of the player's intelligence. This wasn't a new feature, but a carry-over of design sentiments present in the gaming area that it emerged from. Something that got eroded away in the following years.

This is irrelevant I think, as everything from Gameboy games, to Playstation 1, to PC, to arcade games were pretty fucking hardcore back then. Perhaps the only way that Fallout was different was that it was uncompromising in its story: intelligently written, uncompromising and unassuming, to some degree. This was fairly rare at the time in any type of video game.

It is the marriage of these two elements, I think, that makes Fallout so "special" in the eyes of many Codexers.

Looking Glass Studios > Black Isle...by a mile