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Maybe some tweet or something. I've missed it in any case.
-
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KickStarter Underworld Ascendant Pre-Prototype Thread
- Thread starter Morgoth
- Start date
So it was you making those counterfeit Kickstarters. Shame on you, sir.
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Whiran
Magister
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- Feb 3, 2014
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- 641
This is kinda bugging me.
They write about FIVE purple splatters and the graphic displays SEVEN purple splatters plus an unknown one.
What is up with that discrepancy?
The only reason it bugs me is that little things like that really matter when coding and designing. Things should match up unless I missed out on something that indicates that there should be seven.
They write about FIVE purple splatters and the graphic displays SEVEN purple splatters plus an unknown one.
What is up with that discrepancy?
The only reason it bugs me is that little things like that really matter when coding and designing. Things should match up unless I missed out on something that indicates that there should be seven.
Vault Dweller
Commissar, Red Star Studio
- Joined
- Jan 7, 2003
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- 28,044
We also had to share that our community has grown to over 9,200 strong today! This means all our Kickstarter backers will get a free Dark Elf sling, with 5 special purple splatter seeds and at least 2 bonus seeds too. Let’s see if we can reach at least 9,300 Backers by noon (ET) tomorrow, for another bonus seed.
5 + 2 = 7
Whiran
Magister
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- Feb 3, 2014
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- 641
DawnrazorDCLXVI
Savant
I have very distinct feelings about this game:
1) When they first announced it, my initial outcry was the same as expecting a trash sequel to Deus Ex.
2) After announcing subsystems which seemed aligned, and even expounded, on the original game, my hopes expanded. No quest markers, no hand holding, was the litmus for me.
3) The promises seem overambitious for a limited budget and a small team, in the manner as radiant AI was overambitious, and findable runes imbalanced D3, forcing them to resort to zero customization.
4) Classes seem redundant, in the same manner as System Shock 2, in that your character is defined by your choices, not your archetype.
5) As I pointed out earlier, generic Tolkien-esque fantasy is a detriment to this game, as they are talking progressive, not retrogressive. Goblins are only scary until you are seeing them a million times. Cthulhoid monstrosities are more interesting, and I hope they do not resort to bipeds, as we are talking an underground ecocology. The generic fantasy cliches seem a detriment to this game, moreso than an advantage, as they detract from an underground ecology, and add in an element of the expected to that of the unexpected, in an ecology that evolved entirely separate from the surface world. Refinement is necessary, as this is like sewing a blanket to another blanket, and calling it a new blanket. In a game that promises innovation, throwing in Tolkienesque cliches is like throwing a carrot in a banana smoothie. It detracts from the originality of the setting, and should be cut, as it not only throws out the element of surprise, it is a detriment to discovery when you walk a thousand miles to find something new and find a dwarf instead. It also causes unnecessary programming.
6) I hope there are survival mechanisms, not only in terms of food and water, heat and frost, but poisons and diseases, and also phobias. Fear of Darkness and Claustrophobia, and Paranoia, serve a purpose in this type of game, and should be managed. If paranoid, you might start swinging your weapon wildly, drawing attention, or throwing spells. Not just surface visual effects, but fleeing from darkness if you spend too long, thus making fire not only serve a survival purpose, but also essential for your own sanity.
7) I hope this game takes a page from Dark Souls, in limited narrative and story, and telling most of the story in narrative symbolism, or unraveling choices as you go.
8) Emergent gameplay is not only defined by choices, but by limitations. If you burn a bridge, you can no longer cross it. How you define your character is based on choices. If you can burn a bridge only to cross it, then you have limited choices, as 'all roads lead to one destination.' Choices mean consequence. In the same manner as killing an NPC in Dark Souls, or allowing potential game breaking combos in Dishonored, you are allowing innovation. Your choices make or break you, and potentially you could screw up your own game, or stumble on a substantial, but game breaking combo. Balance can be tweaked after alpha, and even further, but screwing up your own game should not be out of the question. Even in Dark Souls, you could do that. Like in real life, if you break the law, you end up in jail. If you jump off a cliff, you die. If you find a way to break the stock market, you get rich. This is the true nature of emergence.
9) Otherside is essentially Looking Glass under a new name.
10) +For Warren Spector, if he does not compromise for consoles or 'streamlining,' which ruined sales. There is a reason Deus Ex 1 was successful, and it was certainly not fumbling around, or dumbing down. I hope he has learned his lesson. You expand upon systems, not strip them. 'Streamlining' makes you less of what you are.
11) +For voice of Garrett and SHODAN. VERY plus!
12) I hope you save as you go, in the same manner as Diablo, but can revert to an earlier save checkpoint if you ruin your entire game. Thus, you cannot take back your choices, but you can redo an entire game segment if you fuck up your game beyond all repair. This limits choices, while forcing you to define yourself based on them.
13) Use of physics. Period. Any multisolution > linear puzzle design, period. It opens up options. Allows creative solutions, such as stacking crates, or burning a bridge, but defines your game. Also, telekinesis and flying. *COUGH*
14) Interactive elements, such as fire and wind, are a MUST. Physics = Combo spells.
15) Character advancement should be tied into exploration, as in findable runes, spell tomes, et cetera.
16) No obvious puzzles. Finding them is their own reward.
17) In the same manner, no didactic speech. It is superficial when someone tells you their back story, and unlikely in real life.
18) Providing explanation is banal, as none is necessary. I am trapped in a cavern, I need to escape. It is a detriment, as it detracts from the mystery. Survival and advancement are compelling enough. Less is more.
In summary, the game needs refinement, seems to contain obvious tropes, and superfluous elements that detract, and are easily cut. I have high hopes, but they are tempered by time and budget.
Most of all, DO NOT commercial--success is defined by customers, not by sales.
Thanks,
James,
DCLXVI.
1) When they first announced it, my initial outcry was the same as expecting a trash sequel to Deus Ex.
2) After announcing subsystems which seemed aligned, and even expounded, on the original game, my hopes expanded. No quest markers, no hand holding, was the litmus for me.
3) The promises seem overambitious for a limited budget and a small team, in the manner as radiant AI was overambitious, and findable runes imbalanced D3, forcing them to resort to zero customization.
4) Classes seem redundant, in the same manner as System Shock 2, in that your character is defined by your choices, not your archetype.
5) As I pointed out earlier, generic Tolkien-esque fantasy is a detriment to this game, as they are talking progressive, not retrogressive. Goblins are only scary until you are seeing them a million times. Cthulhoid monstrosities are more interesting, and I hope they do not resort to bipeds, as we are talking an underground ecocology. The generic fantasy cliches seem a detriment to this game, moreso than an advantage, as they detract from an underground ecology, and add in an element of the expected to that of the unexpected, in an ecology that evolved entirely separate from the surface world. Refinement is necessary, as this is like sewing a blanket to another blanket, and calling it a new blanket. In a game that promises innovation, throwing in Tolkienesque cliches is like throwing a carrot in a banana smoothie. It detracts from the originality of the setting, and should be cut, as it not only throws out the element of surprise, it is a detriment to discovery when you walk a thousand miles to find something new and find a dwarf instead. It also causes unnecessary programming.
6) I hope there are survival mechanisms, not only in terms of food and water, heat and frost, but poisons and diseases, and also phobias. Fear of Darkness and Claustrophobia, and Paranoia, serve a purpose in this type of game, and should be managed. If paranoid, you might start swinging your weapon wildly, drawing attention, or throwing spells. Not just surface visual effects, but fleeing from darkness if you spend too long, thus making fire not only serve a survival purpose, but also essential for your own sanity.
7) I hope this game takes a page from Dark Souls, in limited narrative and story, and telling most of the story in narrative symbolism, or unraveling choices as you go.
8) Emergent gameplay is not only defined by choices, but by limitations. If you burn a bridge, you can no longer cross it. How you define your character is based on choices. If you can burn a bridge only to cross it, then you have limited choices, as 'all roads lead to one destination.' Choices mean consequence. In the same manner as killing an NPC in Dark Souls, or allowing potential game breaking combos in Dishonored, you are allowing innovation. Your choices make or break you, and potentially you could screw up your own game, or stumble on a substantial, but game breaking combo. Balance can be tweaked after alpha, and even further, but screwing up your own game should not be out of the question. Even in Dark Souls, you could do that. Like in real life, if you break the law, you end up in jail. If you jump off a cliff, you die. If you find a way to break the stock market, you get rich. This is the true nature of emergence.
9) Otherside is essentially Looking Glass under a new name.
10) +For Warren Spector, if he does not compromise for consoles or 'streamlining,' which ruined sales. There is a reason Deus Ex 1 was successful, and it was certainly not fumbling around, or dumbing down. I hope he has learned his lesson. You expand upon systems, not strip them. 'Streamlining' makes you less of what you are.
11) +For voice of Garrett and SHODAN. VERY plus!
12) I hope you save as you go, in the same manner as Diablo, but can revert to an earlier save checkpoint if you ruin your entire game. Thus, you cannot take back your choices, but you can redo an entire game segment if you fuck up your game beyond all repair. This limits choices, while forcing you to define yourself based on them.
13) Use of physics. Period. Any multisolution > linear puzzle design, period. It opens up options. Allows creative solutions, such as stacking crates, or burning a bridge, but defines your game. Also, telekinesis and flying. *COUGH*
14) Interactive elements, such as fire and wind, are a MUST. Physics = Combo spells.
15) Character advancement should be tied into exploration, as in findable runes, spell tomes, et cetera.
16) No obvious puzzles. Finding them is their own reward.
17) In the same manner, no didactic speech. It is superficial when someone tells you their back story, and unlikely in real life.
18) Providing explanation is banal, as none is necessary. I am trapped in a cavern, I need to escape. It is a detriment, as it detracts from the mystery. Survival and advancement are compelling enough. Less is more.
In summary, the game needs refinement, seems to contain obvious tropes, and superfluous elements that detract, and are easily cut. I have high hopes, but they are tempered by time and budget.
Most of all, DO NOT commercial--success is defined by customers, not by sales.
Thanks,
James,
DCLXVI.
- Joined
- Oct 22, 2013
- Messages
- 3,351
Hmm... I day one backed it without watching and reading anything, but then cancelled a day later once I'd actually watched the pitch video and had a think. They seem to be doing their best to drive me away, but I'm still following their progress as I thought UU2 was probably the most atmospheric game I've ever played. Hopefully mindx2's epic tale will finally convince me that they actually know what made the UU games great. The drool he's been emitting since his return is getting my hopes up again.
Plus, the Garriott connection is really bothering me. He made some of my favourite games ever, but everything he's said and done since U8 has made me wonder if the previous entries were just a series of flukes, or whether the technical limitations of the day imposed some discipline that he's since shrugged off. I day one backed Shroud as well, but mercifully pulled that before it was too late and have no intention of going back. It's Sunday - I always get philosophical on a Sunday.
B
Plus, the Garriott connection is really bothering me. He made some of my favourite games ever, but everything he's said and done since U8 has made me wonder if the previous entries were just a series of flukes, or whether the technical limitations of the day imposed some discipline that he's since shrugged off. I day one backed Shroud as well, but mercifully pulled that before it was too late and have no intention of going back. It's Sunday - I always get philosophical on a Sunday.
B
- Joined
- Oct 22, 2013
- Messages
- 3,351
We are seeing the influence of the team's experience in the mobile game cesspool tainting the PR stew. So long as they haven't forgotten their roots. (I don't think they have).
It is truly odd. In one hand they hold the experience and chops to create something amazing. In the other hand, they hold the most vile symbols of their most recent experience in the mobile shovelware business. Some people are willing to spend on these things, I just don't think anyone interested in this project is and so the messaging is fucked.
* EDIT * the symbols being in-game trinkets and things you usually see in pay-to-win horseshit.
It is truly odd. In one hand they hold the experience and chops to create something amazing. In the other hand, they hold the most vile symbols of their most recent experience in the mobile shovelware business. Some people are willing to spend on these things, I just don't think anyone interested in this project is and so the messaging is fucked.
* EDIT * the symbols being in-game trinkets and things you usually see in pay-to-win horseshit.
Last edited:
Darkzone
Arcane
- Joined
- Sep 4, 2013
- Messages
- 2,323
DawnrazorDCLXVI
Dawnrazor there is a problem with people and new fantasy things. They hate everything that is new. So you have to make naturally new things like Dire Fairies and Lava Bats. But sadly, people have to recognise the genre, and therefore you got to add elves and dwarves to the setting.
And UU had also dwarves. I would also prefer the fungi's vs big eyed lizard people, with a lot of crazy stuff. But elves and dwarves sale. And dark elves sale extreme. Just ask R.A. Salvatore he is selling just one dark elf for now over 30 years.
Dawnrazor there is a problem with people and new fantasy things. They hate everything that is new. So you have to make naturally new things like Dire Fairies and Lava Bats. But sadly, people have to recognise the genre, and therefore you got to add elves and dwarves to the setting.
And UU had also dwarves. I would also prefer the fungi's vs big eyed lizard people, with a lot of crazy stuff. But elves and dwarves sale. And dark elves sale extreme. Just ask R.A. Salvatore he is selling just one dark elf for now over 30 years.
Last edited:
Metro
Arcane
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- Aug 27, 2009
- Messages
- 27,792
Is that why you responded to me?
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- Oct 22, 2013
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- Joined
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Reposting what Tim did on the Otherside forums regarding play-time and the concerns of some over main quest length of 10-15 hours:
It's like they're reading our minds...
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Yeah, too bad that comic was defending The Order: 1886
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So you are saying you are too obtuse to take the meaning ?
Paul Nuerath himself sees the Underworlds as the only "real" cRPGs that Looking Glass made with System Shock only being a semi-cRPG.
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That I agree with.
Metro
Arcane
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I'm saying I stopped reading at Penny Arcade.
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UPDATE: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/othersidegames/underworld-ascendant/posts/1144227
There has been a lot of chatter about the in-game visuals in the Underworld Ascendant early prototype. Some have called them downright homely. We take no insult.
As with the games we developed at LookingGlass, our philosophy is to avoid putting a lot of time into making pretty in-game visuals during early development. This enables us to iterate fast early on, rapidly improving game play. The tradeoff is having less impressive visuals to show off with a prototype. For fans who want to see gorgeous visuals upfront, this can be a hurdle.
Good news is that we can and will dramatically step up the visual bar. Not at the expense of gameplay, and not to try to chase AAA games that have tens-of-millions to throw at visuals, but we'll deliver a great-looking indie game.
Explaining some of the how:
Beyond tapping into the enthusiasm of Chris’ kids, our art team has track record of delivering games known for their wonderful art style and 3D visuals: BioShock, BioShock Infinite,Uncharted 2, The Last of Us, among others.
As for the software engine, we are currently using Unity 4.6 for the prototype. This version’s visual capabilities are dated. However, it's proven and robust, enabling fast prototyping.
This week we started doing test builds with a beta version of Unity 5. Its capabilities are hugely improved. Notable new features include physically-based shading, PhysX 3.3, and global illumination. Check out what Unity 5 promises to deliver when it is released for production use HERE.
When the Unity 5 beta becomes sufficiently stable that using it will not slow down our development, we will make the switch. We expect Unity 5 will be a good fit for the project’s needs. However, if we are surprised to learn it fails to deliver, we will switch to a more suitable engine.
Last edited by a moderator:
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P.S. They don't seem to have posted about it anywhere, but the pitch video appears to have been redone with additional scenes. Compare and contrast:
God thanks they'll switch to Unity 5.
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