Unofficial Arcanum Patch (Original Thread)

[Drog Black Tooth]

I really hate to post this now that the project is finished, but it seems that the line in the final dialog wherein the pc whispers to Arronax that (s)he has a plan has somehow been disabled. I would not be overly concerned, but since I believe that the following conversation is the only way to peacefully resolve matters with Kerghan, I thought I should point it out. If I am wrong about this in any way, if I have done something wrong or this has already been addressed, or if there are any new conditions for this dialog branch of which I am unaware, please let me know. Otherwise, I'm sorry to post a post-patch bug.

The conditions are CH20 and the full Persuasion skill, as it was mentioned earlier in this thread. They weren't changed, they're the same as in the original. There's no rebalancing in the patch.

 

[friartucksduck]

Ah, my bad. Sorry.

 

[Burning Bridges]

I am playing for the first time with this patch and it is great. Thanks 1000x to Drog for the efforts he put into this.

I have encountered one problem: As I chose the technologist route and learned make Molotov cocktails from rags and fuel (which I also happen to be able to produce myself), I was surprised that Molotov cocktails / Grenades require zero action points. They turned out nothing but an exploit, because I use to have 10-20 molotov cocktails in my arsenal and consequently, should be able to kill anything in turn 1.

Does anyone know if there was ever a fix for this? I mean like raising to 1-2 AP per grenade?? Otherwise I will have to limit myself to 1 grenade per turn which is incredibly lame.

 

[LCJr.]

I have encountered one problem: As I chose the technologist route and learned make Molotov cocktails from rags and fuel (which I also happen to be able to produce myself), I was surprised that Molotov cocktails / Grenades require zero action points. They turned out nothing but an exploit, because I use to have 10-20 molotov cocktails in my arsenal and consequently, should be able to kill anything in turn 1.

Does anyone know if there was ever a fix for this? I mean like raising to 1-2 AP per grenade?? Otherwise I will have to limit myself to 1 grenade per turn which is incredibly lame.

Welcome to the wonderful world of Troika Games. "Betatesting! Hah! We don't need no stinkin' betatesting."

Drog I'm truly sorry this is the best use you can find for your free time. I really hope things improve for you in the future. I sincerely mean that.

 

[Burning Bridges]

I admit I am new to Arcanum, incredible I missed out on such an excellent game before. First game that brings me back the U7 feeling after how many years?

But am I reading between the lines that AP's per weapon can not be fixed? Let me reiterate that imo throwing is seriously broken, not just a bug.

 

[RGE]

There are many, many things in Arcanum that are broken. Saving throws for instance. As far as I can tell, by having experimented a little, Willpower 20 gives immunity to any spell that requires a Will save, but Willpower 19 will never let an NPC save against such a spell, even if it's cast by a technologist who really shouldn't be able to use magick at all. I haven't tried letting an NPC use Stun on my PC, but I assume that the same applies in that case.

And just today, I found out that range modifiers are wonky too. My level 1 PC had put two points into Firearms and I checked his chance to hit an NPC wearing barbarian clothes. With PE 10 and a Hand Cannon (at range 12 and under, had to switch to Long Range Pistol for range 13-20) I got this:
Range 1-5 tiles: 59%*
Range 6-10 tiles: -5% per tile until it gets down to 34% (showing the Eye icon)
Range 11-20 tiles: STARTS OVER at 59% (no Eye) and goes down by 5% per tile (Eye comes back)

* With PE 9 this was range 1-4

WHAT? I get the feeling that the chance to hit should never have gone down for range 6-10, though I usually don't use pistols. So maybe they have some kind of half range thing? Still buggy though, since if it should go down at 6, it shouldn't go back up at 11.

So just enjoy the atmosphere and try to ignore the bugs and the broken balance. Arcanum is not a simulation, it's an RPG.

 

[Drog Black Tooth]

Does anyone know if there was ever a fix for this? I mean like raising to 1-2 AP per grenade?? Otherwise I will have to limit myself to 1 grenade per turn which is incredibly lame.

There's no fix, it's the engine problem. Throwing items (but not boomerang type weapons) doesn't cost any APs in turn-based. I couldn't find a solution.

Most people don't care about this problem and spam grenades, some people walk 4 tiles after throwing each grenade (since throwing grenades was supposed to be 4 APs, just like using spells). There's no other way for now, sorry.

Also, an interesting post, RGE.

There are many, many things in Arcanum that are broken. Saving throws for instance. As far as I can tell, by having experimented a little, Willpower 20 gives immunity to any spell that requires a Will save, but Willpower 19 will never let an NPC save against such a spell, even if it's cast by a technologist who really shouldn't be able to use magick at all. I haven't tried letting an NPC use Stun on my PC, but I assume that the same applies in that case.

Just checked it by modifying monsters' stats, and it seems to be so, a creature with WP19 can't resist any spell that has a WP based save. There are other bugs with spells as well, Dweomer Shield and Reflection Shield can make many maintainable spells permanent (I've blocked the exploit with permanent followers, but still it's the engine issue, I can't really fix it). Also, some NPCs (e.g. K'an Hua) can disintegrate you. The spell wasn't supposed to work against PCs, there's a flag checking for it, but NPCs seem to ignore it.

And just today, I found out that range modifiers are wonky too. My level 1 PC had put two points into Firearms and I checked his chance to hit an NPC wearing barbarian clothes. With PE 10 and a Hand Cannon (at range 12 and under, had to switch to Long Range Pistol for range 13-20) I got this:
Range 1-5 tiles: 59%*
Range 6-10 tiles: -5% per tile until it gets down to 34% (showing the Eye icon)
Range 11-20 tiles: STARTS OVER at 59% (no Eye) and goes down by 5% per tile (Eye comes back)

* With PE 9 this was range 1-4

WHAT? I get the feeling that the chance to hit should never have gone down for range 6-10, though I usually don't use pistols. So maybe they have some kind of half range thing? Still buggy though, since if it should go down at 6, it shouldn't go back up at 11.

I just made a character with the same stats, and gave him the Long Range Pistol. The PE penalty (the Eye) never went away after I was 6 tiles away from the target. Although, at some point (depending if I was standing in front or behind the target) the chance to hit was suddenly going up, but then it was descending again, -5% for each tile. There's definitely something wrong with this. Did your character have the Apprentice training? Screenshots/saves? I'm documenting all engine related bugs, just in case we can fix them at some point.

 

[RGE]

Ah, I just assumed that the Eye went away, since the to hit chance went back up to max. My bad. No training, or screenshots, and the saved game is for the test module I was fooling around in. I decided to check a few weapon speed numbers that I hadn't been able to get with my other characters. So that's when I decided to look into the modifications for ranged combat. I guess I never found out because there's usually plenty of other factors that could affect the chance to hit, and I usually have enough to bump into the roof anyway.

Anyway, in case anyone is interested, here's the AP cost for each weapon speed:

Speed AP
1-2   8
3-5   7
6-8   6
9-11  5
12-14 4
15-17 3
18-23 2
25+   1

Unarmed: 5APs, even with Melee Apprentice training

And from what I've seen, this is how AC affects the chance of being hit:

Chance to hit = Base Chance to Hit - (Base Chance to hit x Armor Class / 200)

Rounded upwards, apparently, since my PC had 65% with his two ranks and 25% default chance to hit, and the barbarian had total AC 21, which gives me 58,175%, while it said 59% in the game. This means that max AC 95 will at best reduce the chance of being hit by less than half. I guess it works well with Dodge though, a skill that I usually never bother with because I tend to kill at a distance and very few of the enemies in Arcanum are able to attack at a distance.

 

[Drog Black Tooth]

I've done the AP cost table as well, some time ago, when I was pondering on the idea of rebalancing the game. Here's the full table:

Movement:
1 AP for each tile
Open a door/container: 2 APs

Spell casting:
4 APs for any spell

Attack:
Depends on the weapon's speed:
2 or lower: 8 APs
3-5: 7 APs
6-8: 6 APs
9-11: 5 APs
12-14: 4 APs
15-17: 3 APs
18-24: 2 APs
25 or higher:1 AP
Unarmed is always 5 APs

Skills:
Pickpocket/Lock Picks/Disarm Traps: 4 APs
Repair: free

Misc:
Use an item: 4 APs
Throw an item: free
Drop an item: free
Access a menu: free
Change weapon/equipment: free
Use a fate point: free

Also, if you have the time, it'd be interesting to test the Backstab skill and find out how it works. If we get the actual numbers, it'd be easy to hack it and make it less powerful. It's an overkill at the moment. A full-blooded ogre can't hit more than 67 of physical damage with the Iron Clan Hammer, but my halflings are hittimg over 100 on unaware creatures using some crappy dagger and ignoring all possible resistances, and that's not counting critical hits.

EDIT: OK, I did a bit of testing myself, turns out the mechanics are pretty simple. Here's the basics.

First, of all, a bit of explanation to those unfamiliar with the skill. Backstab adds extra damage to your attack when you hit a creature from behind (3 positions are possible, you can stab straight in the back or a bit sideways). Without training you can backstab only with daggers.

Training:
Backstab Apprentice – a successful rear attack upon an unaware opponent will bypass his armor
Backstab Expert – the Character may backstab with swords and axes as well as daggers
Backstab Master – the Character gains an enormous increase to his chance of scoring a critical success

NOTE: Apprentice lets you bypass the actual damage resistance, so it works with monsters, etc.

The mechanics are pretty simple, the damage added to your attack is equal to the skill level, e.g. if you put 3 CPs in Backstab (so the skill level is 12), it will add 12 to your attack.

Although, when a character stabs an unaware creature (e.g. a stunned creature, a creature that can't see you prowling, etc) the backstab bonus is multiplied FIVE TIMES. So at the full skill level you're doing 100 extra damage to unaware creatures.

There seem to be other factors though, because even at the full skill level a character may sometimes get a backstab bonus as low as 85. Also, I'm not sure how the skill handles critical successes and fails. Critical hits with a weapon are handled by melee skill, the backstab bonus damage isn't affected by them.

 

[Drog Black Tooth]

NO

 

[Inziladun]

Such a hard worker.

 

[Vaarna_Aarne]

:honourblade:

 

[Kogorn]

Honestly, I have to say, watching the story of how this patch developed was amazing. I just joined the forum, and there were about 60 pages of forum posts in this thread at the time, and I read them all (I get really bored at work).

It's just incredible to see how much work went into this and how the project turned out, how people teamed up to fix the dialogue errors and everything (and on occasion, how drama occured).

I'm glad the project is back in business. Good luck!

 

[Burning Bridges]

I also welcome this announcement. Too bad the AP's can supposedly not be fixed, that is my main issue with the game at this day.

 

[Topaze]

Is there any way to slow down the PC (and other characters)? I mean, they're running like crazy in this game, which is very annoying in itself, not to mention the fact that the real time mode is way too fast in combat. Or is it an inherent feature that cannot be modified no matter what?

 

[Drog Black Tooth]

Is there any way to slow down the PC (and other characters)? I mean, they're running like crazy in this game, which is very annoying in itself, not to mention the fact that the real time mode is way too fast in combat. Or is it an inherent feature that cannot be modified no matter what?

That is not a bug.

 

[RK47]

if u want to play somewhat 'playable' combat, don't play real time mode.

 

[Palmer Eldritch]

As a dumb character, I couldn't complete the first thief quest in Tarant, the one where you steal a map. When I'm supposed to give it to him, the dialog is stuck in a loop, and iirc I didn't receive any xp. I became member of the underground, but the quest was still listed as incomplete in the journal, and I couldn't get any new dialog from the questgiver. Sadly I managed to overwrite the save game by accident, but I thought I'd mention it anyway.

 

[DragonHawk]

I have a weird bug with Flow Spektrometer. When my human, sickly character is using it, the mines are never displayed on my screen. The charges are used as if it spots the mines, but the mines do not appear on the screen. I can use magic scrolls (and sometimes spot trap skill) to spot the mines just fine.

However, my half-orc/miracle operation character can use his spektrometer just fine.

Both games were created using UAP ver 080708. Both are tech characters with >25% tech aptitude. I would attach a savegame, but not sure how to do it on this board.

 

[Drog Black Tooth]

I have a weird bug with Flow Spektrometer. When my human, sickly character is using it, the mines are never displayed on my screen. The charges are used as if it spots the mines, but the mines do not appear on the screen. I can use magic scrolls (and sometimes spot trap skill) to spot the mines just fine.

However, my half-orc/miracle operation character can use his spektrometer just fine.

Never heard of such problem before. Have you tried creating another Flow Specktrometer?

Both games were created using UAP ver 080708. Both are tech characters with >25% tech aptitude. I would attach a savegame, but not sure how to do it on this board.

You can upload your save to rapidshare and post the link here.

 

[uhjghvt]

P.P.S. No proofreading this time, as well, unless some English teacher decides to help us to sort all the mess on objective basis.

I've done copyediting professionally before and I'm willing to work on it if someone points me to the text resources.

 

[Drog Black Tooth]

P.P.S. No proofreading this time, as well, unless some English teacher decides to help us to sort all the mess on objective basis.

I've done copyediting professionally before and I'm willing to work on it if someone points me to the text resources.

Are you sure you can handle this? We need grammar people, so that we can fix all in-game text for good.

When we were proofreading the dialogs, people had different opinions on certain grammar/spelling rules, most people weren't sure what's correct, and some people didn't care for perfect grammar at all. But I believe, it'd be pointless to go through all dialogs to just fix all it's/its, your/you're and there/they're. It's a huge task, of course, but if we're going to fix typos - then we fix them all, once and for all, no exceptions. Otherwise, it's just sloppy work.

Anyway, Arcanum's text resources are quite messy, lots of inconsistencies and bad grammar/spelling. Preferably, we need a person with a perfect command of American English to help us fix all mistakes.

Here's a few examples of problems we had:

Another thing though, on this matter - is it acceptable to put an exclamation mark before an ellipsis? From Loghaire's dialog:
Wait a moment!...I come here with the blessing of your son...
And now this mystery!...where are the dwarves of the Black Mountain Clan?
But nothing! I chose to spare the dwarves...the world!...the price of such a war.

01090Hadrian_the_Archaeologist.dlg
I think I read somewhere in the past that ellipses were to have a space after them. There's many, many ellipses here, and all have no spaces. It looks intentional.

Ellipses are used like that throughout all dialogs. There are very long ellipses, ellipses with spaces or exclamation points before or after them, etc. Very, very messy.

Apart from that, I recommended capitalizing the Church, Council, Eye of Kraka-tur, and Elders as they refer to specific people or groups.

Probably. Although, they appear in many dialogs sometimes capitalized, sometimes not, but mostly not capitalized. "High Acolyte" in Alexander's dialog is capitalized, "high priest" is not, but it should be. Church Archaeologist and Church Historian should be capitalized as well. What a mess!

Also, take a look at pages 54-59, all reports and their discussion are there.

 

[uhjghvt]

P.P.S. No proofreading this time, as well, unless some English teacher decides to help us to sort all the mess on objective basis.

I've done copyediting professionally before and I'm willing to work on it if someone points me to the text resources.

Are you sure you can handle this? We need grammar people, so that we can fix all in-game text for good.

Yes I can handle it although I'm only saying I'll work on it not promising I'll definitely do the whole thing (I don't even know how much there is, I'm assuming a lot since it's a big game).

As far as punctuation around ellipses and similar issues, English isn't like French where there's an official standards body that sets these issues down in stone. Using punctuation around ellipses might be considered wrong because ellipses are supposed to indicate omission but ellipses are also informally used to indicate a pause in spoken dialogue. Given the context I don't see any reason to try to make the text highly formal. After all most of the text here is supposed to convey spoken dialogue and excessively formal writing might contrast oddly with the deliberate misspellings and anachronisms in the writing.

 

[Drog Black Tooth]

P.P.S. No proofreading this time, as well, unless some English teacher decides to help us to sort all the mess on objective basis.

I've done copyediting professionally before and I'm willing to work on it if someone points me to the text resources.

Are you sure you can handle this? We need grammar people, so that we can fix all in-game text for good.

Yes I can handle it although I'm only saying I'll work on it not promising I'll definitely do the whole thing (I don't even know how much there is, I'm assuming a lot since it's a big game).

There's 5.6MB of text in dialogs. And we already made it through 1.4MB.

I think, to put it simply, our project needs a good editor, basically we need a person that would be doing the same thing I was at pages 54-59, but professionally. That is, volunteers (any random literate native speakers) will be going through the resources, and then the editor will be checking the reports.

Of course, anybody may feel free to propose a better system of handling the proofreading process, I'm always open to any suggestions. But I think this system is quite efficient, it worked OK for us.

 

[garren]

snip

My Int just upped by reading that

Yes it wasn't very high to begin with