World of Darkness Vampire: The Masquerade – Bloodlines 2 from Hardsuit Labs

[Sarathiour]

I think you guys might be missing the full significance of what she wrote there. It's not just about making characters not-too-wordy. She's stressing the importance of the behind-the-scenes narrative design that allows you to achieve that and also make them more compelling. You have to carefully plan what characters will and will not say in order to make them work.

To be more clear, i totally agree with that : you have to keep character's motivation and goal at least partially secret, and eventually possible to learn with other mean that plain dialogue.

 

[Ol' Willy]

I think you guys might be missing the full significance of what she wrote there. It's not just about making characters not-too-wordy. She's stressing the importance of the behind-the-scenes narrative design that allows you to achieve that and also make them more compelling. You have to carefully plan what characters will and will not say in order to make them work.

While it's true, also:
1) this advice is akin to "if you want to eat a peach, don't bite into the pit". Any competent writer should know this. This is why when you watch Sopranos there's hidden motives and hidden agenda everywhere and nothing is "in your face". That's why people love it and that's why it's quality writing. Original Bloodlines had this thing going as well, and this is why people love it too. I don't know what kind of literary rejects should need an advice as banal as this.
2) it's funny that an advice about quality writing comes from her and Mitsoda. It seems that these two care more about spewing their poisonous SJW agenda everywhere instead of actually quality writing.

I mean, just look at original Bloodlines and you will see good writing and the finest example of "don't tell everything" right there; there is no revelation in her words 16 years after the release of original title. Every major character in Bloodlines has his/her agenda and they don't go in long tirades explaining it to you, you have to use your grey matter a little - but it seems that it's too much to ask from the modern consumer.

 

[Archibald]

Does this not imply that writing should be done last? If you don't have a clear idea of how game functions then you can't be sure what should be stated explicitly and what could be inferred from the gameplay.

 

[Mikeal]

So Mitsoda is out, Avellone is out, even fucking Cara Ellison is out.

Who is even working on this disaster?

Interns.

 

[Caim]

The tabletop version of Vampire V almost caused an international incident. Do you think Bloodlines 2 can do the same?

 

[CyberModuled]

I can't tell if Paradox not saying anything about it yet is a case of them just wrapping development up, saying nothing because they don't even think the game is worth the PR time spent for something like that, not wanting to cause any ire between journos given Ellison's connections thus minimizing as much attention to it as possible, or they're simply revving up to announce a cancellation of the project as a whole. I'm sure whatever the outcome is long term, it'll be worth a chuckle or two.

The tabletop version of Vampire V almost caused an international incident. Do you think Bloodlines 2 can do the same?

Given Paradox's actions after that incident (liquidizing White Wolf into them completely) I'm sure they'll try everything they can to prevent something that controversial again. Who knows though, given how incompetent the development has been so far, something will probably slip through the cracks enough to piss off Era tards at least (despite pandering to them in practically every other way).

 

[Caim]

The tabletop version of Vampire V almost caused an international incident. Do you think Bloodlines 2 can do the same?

Given Paradox's actions after that incident (liquidizing White Wolf into the completely) I'm sure they'll try everything they can to prevent something that controversial again. Who knows though, given how incompetent the development has been so far, something will probably slip through the cracks enough to piss off Era tards at least (despite pandering to them in practically every other way).

My money is on a Kindred trying to transition, but because of how vampires work the dick just keeps growing back. Your quest: find a Tzimisce for a Viccisitude job. If you succeed there will be consequences to your choices: later on in the game you will discover that the Tzimisce is evil and has been collecting severed vampire dicks to fleshcraft into a grotesque dickball, which you'll have to fight.

 

[Zombra]

Every show is already as good as the Sopranos; therefore, it is pointless to have a conversation about what constitutes well-designed writing. Writers already know!

ok bro

 

[Ol' Willy]

Every show is already as good as the Sopranos; therefore, it is pointless to have a conversation about what constitutes well-designed writing. Writers already know!

ok bro

 

[Joseph Stalin]

Funnily enough, the guts of what she's saying is a legit golden rule of writing: Dialogue and writing in general should always be in service of something. Don't waffle aimlessly.

But she described it in a laborious, elongated way.

Apparently someone's never read Finnegan's Wake.

 

[CyberModuled]

My money is on a Kindred trying to transition, but because of how vampires work the dick just keeps growing back. Your quest: find a Tzimisce for a Viccisitude job. If you succeed there will be consequences to your choices: later on in the game you will discover that the Tzimisce is evil and has been collecting severed vampire dicks to fleshcraft into a grotesque dickball, which you'll have to fight.

You joke, but honestly that sounds more creative and interesting than anything that'll probably be in the final game.

Besides

Spoiler

Flesh piles are an untapped enemy type/boss in most games.

 

[Fedora Master]

Interesting aspect all the snowflakes conveniently ignore, the fact that vampire bodies reject tattoos and piercings and other modifications

 

[Caim]

My money is on a Kindred trying to transition, but because of how vampires work the dick just keeps growing back. Your quest: find a Tzimisce for a Viccisitude job. If you succeed there will be consequences to your choices: later on in the game you will discover that the Tzimisce is evil and has been collecting severed vampire dicks to fleshcraft into a grotesque dickball, which you'll have to fight.

You joke, but honestly that sounds more creative and interesting than anything that'll probably be in the final game.

Besides

Spoiler

Flesh piles are an untapped enemy type/boss in most games.

I'm more of a fan of Demon than Vampire, so the really weird shit isn't all that alien to me.

 

[Storyfag]

later on in the game you will discover that the Tzimisce is evil

That's how we roll in the Carpathians

 

[Roguey]

Wherein Cara confirms she quit/was fired from Bloodlines 2 back in September

I left in sept to work on other things

And a Glass Door review from September, possibly written by Cara herself given the writing style and subject matter.

I have been working at Hardsuit Labs full-time for less than a year

Pros

It’s a development studio you can work at in Seattle

Have fun events

Pizza!

If CEOs can’t understand your work, you’ll be able to finish it without constant questions and bad critiques

Diverse studio, progressive studio outside of pipelines, welcoming of LGBTQ even if not fully inclusive in game content

Cons

Read the recent news, it’s all confusing for us too but good for design and story. just took too long to get rid of bad actors

Poorly-trained old and new management, top to bottom, affects everything and difficult to get work done or tracked

Cheap on one hand, wasteful on the other

Can’t seem to have a studio meeting without announcing who’s gone this week

Cowardly and poor performance feedback or none at all until too late, creates paranoia about who's next

Hire developers and put no trust in them, especially game design

No idea how to make an RPG and it’s shown for the past few years

Game design needed a fresh restart, and senior designers hired need to be listened to

Other producers need to be trained and need to do actual work

Firings have made the news, and while necessary, could have been avoided through vetting when hiring

Paradox is half in, half out, but all trouble

Advice to Management

Trust design to figure it out it’s why you hired us

“Not as bad as it used to be” is NOT a good answer to issues

Get through this project and scatter to the winds, maybe start smaller studios that do shooter clones and shooter DLC – games you understand

Tell us when you’ll be in the office and when you’ll have the thing you promised actually done

Free the programmers from outsourcing prison or let them go to actual game studios where they can make cool stuff

Change your company motto from “we make great games” to “we’re still figuring it out bear with us”

While diversity is good, could be improved and listened to

If that is Cara, quite the backstabbing of Mitsoda there, calling him and Cluney a couple of con men. Accurate, though, based on my assessment.

 

[Flying Dutchman]

Wow. Cara, too. Am actually surprised she wasn't retained, but am not sad she's gone.

League of Geeks, though... that's not a step up, though, pretty sad.

The only other "narrative designer" on LinkedIn/Twitter at Hardsuit was Anna Webster, but she sounds like an implementer, not a writer, so who knows.

Noticed CEO of Hardsuit locked his tweets, so way to go, Andy Kripling, keep steering that ship of yours right onto the rocks.

 

[J1M]

I think you guys might be missing the full significance of what she wrote there. It's not just about making characters not-too-wordy. She's stressing the importance of the behind-the-scenes narrative design that allows you to achieve that and also make them more compelling. You have to carefully plan what characters will and will not say in order to make them work.

You don't know if that's what she is saying because you haven't done that job for at least 5 years!

In all seriousness though, her firing is the first good news about Bloodlines this year.

 

[Alienman]

I noticed something here in her review.

Diversity in the place is good, but everything surrounding game development is bad. Makes you think

 

[Delterius]

everything i love dies

 

[Delterius]

was it ever alive even

 

[Delterius]

time to sudoku goodbye bros

 

[Heroic Liberator]

everything i love dies

That is not dead which can eternal lie and with strange aeons even death may die.

 

[Wunderbar]

Delterius take some communists with you.

 

[Semiurge]

Kinda shows the state of modern gaming that my default reaction to any old franchises being revived now is "Oh fuck"

Because of the great divide between the generations that made the original and the rehash. Modern developers and writers often just won't "get" the older work, and the ones who had been involved with them like our Brian, have changed irreversibly. Mellowed because of time. Bloodlines has an uncommercial, irreverent and anarchistic
vibe to it, like it never took itself too seriously. That same spirit just cannot be expected from even an AA game today, not to mention AAA like Cyberpunk. That one at least has poles working on it instead of american and swedish neo-liberals, which will guard it from some harm.

This is why when you watch Sopranos there's hidden motives and hidden agenda everywhere and nothing is "in your face".

The Wire goes even further.

That is not dead which can eternal lie and with strange aeons even death may die.

Bloodlines 2: The Thing That Should Not Be

 

[Delterius]

Delterius take some communist with you.

i used to sudoku with comrade stalin, was nice