World of Darkness Vampire: The Masquerade – Bloodlines 2 from Hardsuit Labs

[Storyfag]

Pretty sure the rulebooks for medieval VTM stated that the average generation of a neonate in the middle ages would be around 8 or 9.

As per the rules themselves, the starting Generation was 12 (compared to 13 in modern VTM). You could lower it at chargen to 7 (8 modern) with the appropriate perk.

 

[True Ukrainian]

Pretty sure the rulebooks for medieval VTM stated that the average generation of a neonate in the middle ages would be around 8 or 9.

The VTMR protag has a generation of 8 if I remember correctly.

 

[Can't handle the bacon]

As per the rules themselves, the starting Generation was 12 (compared to 13 in modern VTM).

For the 12th century??? What rulebooks were you reading, lol?

The VTMR protag has a generation of 8 if I remember correctly.

That is a huge advantage over your average 12-13 gen neonate in modern times.

 

[Storyfag]

Pretty sure the rulebooks for medieval VTM stated that the average generation of a neonate in the middle ages would be around 8 or 9.

The VTMR protag has a generation of 8 if I remember correctly.

This can be only inferred by the size of the PCs blood pool. Still, the PCs Generation seems to go down during the game, with Andrei commenting on it outright, and LaCroix confused he can't dominate the PC any more.

As per the rules themselves, the starting Generation was 12 (compared to 13 in modern VTM).

For the 12th century??? What rulebooks were you reading, lol?

The original Dark Ages one.

 

[True Ukrainian]

Pretty sure the rulebooks for medieval VTM stated that the average generation of a neonate in the middle ages would be around 8 or 9.

The VTMR protag has a generation of 8 if I remember correctly.

This can be only inferred by the size of the PCs blood pool. Still, the PCs Generation seems to go down during the game, with Andrei commenting on it outright, and LaCroix confused he can't dominate the PC any more.

As per the rules themselves, the starting Generation was 12 (compared to 13 in modern VTM).

For the 12th century??? What rulebooks were you reading, lol?

The original Dark Ages one.

I'm talking about Christof, the protag of redemption. His generation is stated on the character sheet.

 

[Can't handle the bacon]

Pretty sure the rulebooks for medieval VTM stated that the average generation of a neonate in the middle ages would be around 8 or 9.

The VTMR protag has a generation of 8 if I remember correctly.

This can be only inferred by the size of the PCs blood pool. Still, the PCs Generation seems to go down during the game, with Andrei commenting on it outright, and LaCroix confused he can't dominate the PC any more.

He's talking about the VTMR protag, which is Christoff. 8th generation would be pretty standard for a 12th century neonate.

The VTMB protagonist is likely the childe of the cab driver (Cain or possibly some Malkavian methuselah who thinks he is Cain, but really it's Cain) and has an insanely low generation. Yes, we seem to see the protag get embraced by some rando in the opening cinematic, but there's many clues that this was a decoy sire.

 

[Heroic Liberator]

The VTMB protagonist is likely the childe of the cab driver (Cain or possibly some Malkavian methuselah who thinks he is Cain, but really it's Cain)

I agree with the Cain hypothesis, even if White Wolf didn't acknowledge it as canon. As far as the one about the cab driver being the PC's sire and a Malkavian is concerned, how would you reconcile that with the player's ability to select the PC's clan?

 

[Wesp5]

As far as the one about the cab driver being the PC's sire and a Malkavian is concerned, how would you reconcile that with the player's ability to select the PC's clan?

I don't believe the Bloodlines PC is the cabbies childe, but what if Caine would mix some of his blood e.g. in the blood packs that the player has in his fridge?

 

[Storyfag]

Pretty sure the rulebooks for medieval VTM stated that the average generation of a neonate in the middle ages would be around 8 or 9.

The VTMR protag has a generation of 8 if I remember correctly.

This can be only inferred by the size of the PCs blood pool. Still, the PCs Generation seems to go down during the game, with Andrei commenting on it outright, and LaCroix confused he can't dominate the PC any more.

As per the rules themselves, the starting Generation was 12 (compared to 13 in modern VTM).

For the 12th century??? What rulebooks were you reading, lol?

The original Dark Ages one.

I'm talking about Christof, the protag of redemption. His generation is stated on the character sheet.

Whoops. Sowwy, redding is teh hard. Sure, it's stated outright. It's 9, unless you diablerize the Setite priestess.

The VTMB protagonist is likely the childe of the cab driver (Cain or possibly some Malkavian methuselah who thinks he is Cain, but really it's Cain)

I agree with the Cain hypothesis, even if White Wolf didn't acknowledge it as canon. As far as the one about the cab driver being the PC's sire and a Malkavian is concerned, how would you reconcile that with the player's ability to select the PC's clan?

I like to think Caine didn't embrace the PC, but manipulated a powerful Elder or Methuselah to do so, and then wiped the memories of all parties involved. Or even used a vial of someone's blood to embrace the PC, a'la the embrace of Augustus Giovanni. As for the impression others get of the PCs generation going down - that is precisely it: an impression. In fact the fledling is just slowly coming to his powers.

 

[Heroic Liberator]

As far as the one about the cab driver being the PC's sire and a Malkavian is concerned, how would you reconcile that with the player's ability to select the PC's clan?

I don't believe the Bloodlines PC is the cabbies childe, but what if Caine would mix some of his blood e.g. in the blood packs that the player has in his fridge?

I am not a lore expert, but I'm pretty sure that just ingesting the blood of an older generation vampire wouldn't have the same effect as diablery since the latter is about consuming the essence ('soul' or what have you) of the vampire rather than some material aspect of him. That's why ghouls (I assume) gain the same powers regardless of the generation of the vampire whose blood they ingest and require constant feedings since the power of the vampiric blood gets lost once it goes out of the system (akin to a normal drug).

 

[Can't handle the bacon]

The VTMB protagonist is likely the childe of the cab driver (Cain or possibly some Malkavian methuselah who thinks he is Cain, but really it's Cain)

I agree with the Cain hypothesis, even if White Wolf didn't acknowledge it as canon. As far as the one about the cab driver being the PC's sire and a Malkavian is concerned, how would you reconcile that with the player's ability to select the PC's clan?

You're right, it has to be Cain. Since he is the progenitor of all clans, he can intentionally make his childe in the image of any of them.

Alternatively, the protag got embraced by a normal vampire of one of the seven clans, but somehow had his blood "amplified" by a tenth-level Discipline.

Either way, the protag's embrace is a huge conspiracy. The rando sire (of whom we learn virtually nothing in the entire game) had no reason to wantonly violate one of the basic laws of vampire society, and then remain silent throughout the trial and execution. He/she had to be acting under a powerful Domination command. And who tipped off the Prince anyway?

 

[Storyfag]

And who tipped off the Prince anyway?

I know a guy, who knows a guy... a smiling guy.

 

[Ravielsk]

The VTMB protagonist is likely the childe of the cab driver (Cain or possibly some Malkavian methuselah who thinks he is Cain, but really it's Cain)

I agree with the Cain hypothesis, even if White Wolf didn't acknowledge it as canon. As far as the one about the cab driver being the PC's sire and a Malkavian is concerned, how would you reconcile that with the player's ability to select the PC's clan?

This is one of those things where I think White Wolf made the right call. Making the cab driver Cain might sound cool on paper but in practice it just makes Cain look like a petty asshole. Because really in the end the events of VTMB are just a petty squabble over a sarcophagus that ultimately contained nothing of importance. It just makes the whole thing into too much of a joke at the end.

 

[Storyfag]

The VTMB protagonist is likely the childe of the cab driver (Cain or possibly some Malkavian methuselah who thinks he is Cain, but really it's Cain)

I agree with the Cain hypothesis, even if White Wolf didn't acknowledge it as canon. As far as the one about the cab driver being the PC's sire and a Malkavian is concerned, how would you reconcile that with the player's ability to select the PC's clan?

This is one of those things where I think White Wolf made the right call. Making the cab driver Cain might sound cool on paper but in practice it just makes Cain look like a petty asshole. Because really in the end the events of VTMB are just a petty squabble over a sarcophagus that ultimately contained nothing of importance. It just makes the whole thing into too much of a joke at the end.

You need to chat with Caine some more, as he drives you around. The importance of his LA experiment is laid out pretty clearly in those discussions.

 

[Roguey]

You need to chat with Caine some more, as he drives you around. The importance of his LA experiment is laid out pretty clearly in those discussions.

This particular plan makes no sense from his perspective. It's Jack lulz that doesn't even necessarily work (if you end up giving the sarcophagus to Strauss).

 

[Storyfag]

You need to chat with Caine some more, as he drives you around. The importance of his LA experiment is laid out pretty clearly in those discussions.

This particular plan makes no sense from his perspective. It's Jack lulz that doesn't even necessarily work (if you end up giving the sarcophagus to Strauss).

Any decision you make provides Caine with valuable insight into the societies his Children have set up for themselves. The chaos in LA, or lack thereof, is not his goal, but a by-product of the experiment.

 

[Roguey]

Any decision you make provides Caine with valuable insight into the societies his Children have set up for themselves.

You don't really need to go through the trouble of setting up a future Mary Sue vampire to do that.

 

[Vormulak]

Christof the protag of VTMR is 9th gen, 8th only if ye consume the heart of the setite.

 

[Ol' Willy]

Making the cab driver Cain might sound cool on paper but in practice it just makes Cain look like a petty asshole. Because really in the end the events of VTMB are just a petty squabble over a sarcophagus that ultimately contained nothing of importance. It just makes the whole thing into too much of a joke at the end.

What if Caine has no personal interest in sarcophagus affair whatsoever but has an interest in the protagonist? He may be directly involved in his siring, watching him attune his powers and making decisions - a test, a kind of a boot camp? And then, the protagonist will have to do Caine's bidding - or instead, rebel against him? All this Gehenna prophecy may have something to do with that. Clearly a sequel material - which, due to the demise of Troika, we will never see.

Instead, enjoy your thin-bloods and faggots.

 

[Wesp5]

What if Caine has no personal interest in sarcophagus affair whatsoever but has an interest in the protagonist? He may be directly involved in his siring, watching him attune his powers and making decisions - a test, a kind of a boot camp?

In my opinion Caine is not only testing the player, but all other vampire factions too. Like will they help each other or will they fight each other? Which are worth saving if he decides to trigger Gehenna? Are any of them worth saving at all?

 

[J1M]

I've said this before but I think vampire works best as a period piece set in the 90s. The level of technology is too high now to plausibly maintain the masquerade. Current year also means that all of the gehenna plots play out as nothingburgers, which makes any conspiracies that come after inherently less spicy.

The word of darkness is so vast that fixating on the minute details of some anarchs in LA would be a huge waste of a sequel. I would much rather see a focus on the inner workings of the upper levels of the pyramid or camarilla. Or points of intersection between the world of vampire and other non-werewolf books.

Would be nice to see a Bloodlines game set in an older European province with hundreds of years of mystery and intrigue.

 

[Heroic Liberator]

What if Caine has no personal interest in sarcophagus affair whatsoever but has an interest in the protagonist? He may be directly involved in his siring, watching him attune his powers and making decisions - a test, a kind of a boot camp?

In my opinion Caine is not only testing the player, but all other vampire factions too. Like will they help each other or will they fight each other? Which are worth saving if he decides to trigger Gehenna? Are any of them worth saving at all?

Spoiler

And that's why one should go with Strauss in order to redeem the kindred in Caine's eyes.

 

[J1M]

In case anyone from Paradox is reading this, you could make everyone re-buy their Vampire books by releasing "Vampire: The 90s" as a setting. Not unlike how Dark Ages was handled. It would also be a face-saving way to roll-back a number of the misguided mechanical and plot changes in v5.

Spoiler

Looking forward to the v5 vs. v90 debates.

 

[Heroic Liberator]

In the grim darkness of the 3rd millennium, there is only v5 and Age of Sigmar.

 

[Bad Sector]

The level of technology is too high now to plausibly maintain the masquerade.

I haven't followed the lore much but isn't exactly this what happened in modern times?