World of Darkness Vampire: The Masquerade – Bloodlines 2 - VTMB sequel from The Chinese Room - coming early 2025

[Roguey]

If I had to guess, this game is targeted towards people who like walking sims with light gameplay elements and detective themes.

There was too much mandatory combat in that quest for this to be a game for walking simmers. That dev diary where they said the three gameplay styles were "strategic stalker" "action brawler" and "narrative adventurer"? There was no narrative adventurer path in that sequence.

When designing Vampire: The Masquerade - Bloodlines 2 combat the goal was to create an action experience that can compete with modern titles.

This part seems true though. The target seems to be people who liked the Dishonored and the Arkham games.

 

[Tyranicon]

Hey, I'm making Vampire 2077!

Are you getting anywhere with that, or are you pulling a Cleve and you intend to jerk us around for the next 20 years or so?

At this point, I'm considering just going head-to-head competing with VtMB2 and launch in the same week sometime this Fall. Will have to wait until they announce a date. It will be good luls all around.

Then again, be aware that I'm insane and I'm planning on launching two other games this year.

 

[Delterius]

I'm considering just going head-to-head competing with VtMB2 and launch in the same week

aren't you afraid of having to cancel your game all of a sudden

 

[user]

Hey, I'm making Vampire 2077!

Are you getting anywhere with that, or are you pulling a Cleve and you intend to jerk us around for the next 20 years or so?

At this point, I'm considering just going head-to-head competing with VtMB2 and launch in the same week sometime this Fall. Will have to wait until they announce a date. It will be good luls all around.

Then again, be aware that I'm insane and I'm planning on launching two other games this year.

Not competent enough to release a game, but after the demo I was seriously thinking of
Step 1: whipping up an urban scene in Unreal with free assets, animations, etc I have procured over the years, a widget showing a non-functional character sheet
Step 2: Profit

 

[The President]

In VtmB you couldn't actually create a character, only allocate points in the character sheet. That's all.

Um, about that...:

Spoiler

This is from Vampire: The Masquerade, the PnP version.

So, you're telling me that Baldurs Gate 3 or Cyberpunk 2077 also have character sheets like from the tabletop RPGs of the same name, right? Right? No, then what are we talking about? The developers of VtMB put in a character sheet conventionally, otherwise they have tons of conventions, because a tabletop RPG can't be thoroughly ported. And the character sheet isn't really any different from the same progression branch. It's literally the same thing, just visualized differently.

BG3 has a paper doll and stat sheets for its characters. It’s not a perfect translation, but it is quite faithful to the TT and translated quite well overall. If you’ve played 5e DnD, you’re going to be able to play BG3 easily. From what we’ve seen so far, this game doesn’t even attempt to make V5 of VTM. Even VTMB1 had a sheet that was fairly close to the TT even though it took quite a few liberties.

 

[Tyranicon]

There was too much mandatory combat in that quest for this to be a game for walking simmers. That dev diary where they said the three gameplay styles were "strategic stalker" "action brawler" and "narrative adventurer"? There was no narrative adventurer path in that sequence.

What I'm thinking is that VtMB2 will end up something like Alan Wake 1. Yes, there is a significant gameplay element, but it's mostly just an excuse for the story. I wouldn't expect the combat/stealth to be too complex, especially if they are launching this year.

The narrative adventurer path, from what they wrote in the dev log, sounds like it might just be super duper easy mode instead of an actual gameplay path, but we'll see.

I'm considering just going head-to-head competing with VtMB2 and launch in the same week

aren't you afraid of having to cancel your game all of a sudden

I actually have a lot of connects in the visual novel dev community. I can always outsource it to one of them. Cheaper than contracting with TCR.

Not competent enough to release a game, but after the demo I was seriously thinking of
Step 1: whipping up an urban scene in Unreal with free assets, animations, etc I have procured over the years, a widget showing a non-functional character sheet
Step 2: Profit

Yeah, a lot of those horror streamer bait games are basically just this in action. One of the things I like about the cRPG genre is it really is the most honest one out there. You can't fake your way into this niche, you have to show your work. And most of the work is content, which takes time, experience and a good amount of talent.

This is also why very few devs try to make cashgrabs in cRPG world. There's too little money, you people are too picky, and you can smell a fake from miles away.

 

[Delterius]

I actually have a lot of connects in the visual novel dev community. I can always outsource it to one of them. Cheaper than contracting with TCR.

you'd be passing the curse onwards. for as you promised to release on the same week as TCR's Vampire 20XX, the doomed project might doom us all.

 

[Lambach]

Oh fuck me, I almost forgot!

Ayo, Jenkem , how you doing brother? What do you think of all these recent exciting news?

Still holding on to that preorder?

 

[Jenkem]

Oh fuck me, I almost forgot!

Ayo, Jenkem , how you doing brother? What do you think of all these recent exciting news?

Still holding on to that preorder?

yep. never going to give it up like rick astley. this game is PHYRE, yo! fr fr no cap

 

[Skinwalker]

Oh fuck me, I almost forgot!

Ayo, Jenkem , how you doing brother? What do you think of all these recent exciting news?

Still holding on to that preorder?

yep. never going to give it up like rick astley. this game is PHYRE, yo! fr fr no cap

You are upsetting me.

 

[Storyfag]

I actually have a lot of connects in the visual novel dev community. I can always outsource it to one of them. Cheaper than contracting with TCR.

you'd be passing the curse onwards.

So he's acting perfectly Vampiric?

 

[Wesp5]

This part seems true though. The target seems to be people who liked the Dishonored and the Arkham games.

I don't really get all these Dishonored comparisons. Is this because the video shows some kind of verticality? The Dishonored maps I remember had multiple ways to solve them besides punching enemies in the face! Dishonored also had both melee and ranged weapons and other items that could be upgraded in an inventory of some kind. We haven't seen anything like this yet...

 

[user]

This part seems true though. The target seems to be people who liked the Dishonored and the Arkham games.

I don't really get all these Dishonored comparisons. Is this because the video shows some kind of verticality? The Dishonored maps I remember had multiple ways to solve them besides punching enemies in the face! Dishonored also had both melee and ranged weapons and other items that could be upgraded in an inventory of some kind. We haven't seen anything like this yet...

I don't know either... maybe because of the lack of something to compare it to? I mean, you can't compare it with Street Fighter... can you?

no inventory, lots of punching, some special moves, checks out

 

[Tyranicon]

I don't really get all these Dishonored comparisons. Is this because the video shows some kind of verticality? The Dishonored maps I remember had multiple ways to solve them besides punching enemies in the face! Dishonored also had both melee and ranged weapons and other items that could be upgraded in an inventory of some kind. We haven't seen anything like this yet...

They're both first person games with stealth and combat, especially using win button abilities, but that's about as far as the comparison goes.

 

[Roguey]

This part seems true though. The target seems to be people who liked the Dishonored and the Arkham games.

I don't really get all these Dishonored comparisons. Is this because the video shows some kind of verticality? The Dishonored maps I remember had multiple ways to solve them besides punching enemies in the face! Dishonored also had both melee and ranged weapons and other items that could be upgraded in an inventory of some kind. We haven't seen anything like this yet...

Stealth with sick powers.

 

[Delterius]

I actually have a lot of connects in the visual novel dev community. I can always outsource it to one of them. Cheaper than contracting with TCR.

you'd be passing the curse onwards.

So he's acting perfectly Vampiric?

more specifically sabbat-like

mass embraces are ILLEGAL and also a bad look fr ngl tbqh

 

[Harthwain]

So, you're telling me that Baldurs Gate 3 or Cyberpunk 2077 also have character sheets like from the tabletop RPGs of the same name, right? Right?

No. I am telling you that both Vampire the Masquerade: Bloodlines and Vampire the Masquerade (PnP) both have character sheets in terms of character creation, so trying to blame Bloodlines for "couldn't actually create a character, only allocate points in the character sheet" is a pretty dumb argument. If you want to use it, then Vampire the Masquerade: Redemption is a much better candidate as it does not allow you to create your own character at all (his name, gender or even his clan are story-bound).

 

[Shaja]

Now thinking about it. THe situation reminds of the Rucker debate. No matter if you went rogue or pacificst in the Gollem City area, and no matter whether you convince him to surrender or not, He freaking dies

Will Bloodlines 2 have an unfinished ending too?

 

[sosmoflux]

Modern game development is about doing as little work as possible. None of them want any extra reactivity, that just means more work.
The rare couple of guys that care about this stuff are pushing shit uphill just to keep their games above the bare minimum quality line.

The entire concept of meaningful content that players may miss is a relic of the past. Time wasted. Scope creep.

Of course the outcomes of these conversations have to be the same.

C&C has become flavor text, nothing more.

 

[Harthwain]

C&C has become flavor text, nothing more.

That's the problem with narrative-driven games, as opposed to system-driven games.

 

[Delterius]

So, you're telling me that Baldurs Gate 3 or Cyberpunk 2077 also have character sheets like from the tabletop RPGs of the same name, right? Right?

No. I am telling you that both Vampire the Masquerade: Bloodlines and Vampire the Masquerade (PnP) both have character sheets in terms of character creation, so trying to blame Bloodlines for "couldn't actually create a character, only allocate points in the character sheet" is a pretty dumb argument. If you want to use it, then Vampire the Masquerade: Redemption is a much better candidate as it does not allow you to create your own character at all (his name, gender or even his clan are story-bound).

The fundamental issue is about ownership.

It's easy to feel a sense of ownership of the Bloodlines protagonist because they are silent. You name them and you interprete everything they say with your mind's eye. Sure, if we had the ability to customize their appearance then that ownership would have been enhanced, but it's still there.

With Bloodlines 2 we have lost that sense of ownership over and over. First we would play a thinblood. Then we'd play an Elder. Now we get to play a Phyre. The named, voiced protagonist does a lot to dissociate us from the character. The idea is founded on customization not as an enhancement, but in place of ownership. So people want to be able to have their Phyre be male, to be able to change their Phyre's haircut, and some even dream of changing their Phyre's face. Edit: interesting to note that all of these customizations were the bare minimum expected in Mitsoda's Bloodlines, now the handful of optimists left are grasping for them like they are lost in the desert and in need of water.

I suspect the devs and the execs themselves think this is a very minor difference - and that they are just making things objectively better by adding a well defined protagonist. But from my point of view (and from what I've seen from other people) this change from CRPG to a Mass Effect inspired opera might be a dealbreaker for way too many customers.

Personally, I have a lot of tolerance for jank when it comes to a Bloodlines 2. I don't mind the premise for the game either. I wouldn't even mind if the character sheet turned into a skill tree. But I removed the game from my wishlist the moment they changed the nature of the protagonist. That's the biggest genre shift they could have done. I would have sooner bought a janky mess in place of this.

 

[Roguey]

Modern game development is about doing as little work as possible. None of them want any extra reactivity, that just means more work.
The rare couple of guys that care about this stuff are pushing shit uphill just to keep their games above the bare minimum quality line.

The entire concept of meaningful content that players may miss is a relic of the past. Time wasted. Scope creep.

Of course the outcomes of these conversations have to be the same.

C&C has become flavor text, nothing more.

They have neither the time nor the experience to do this well.

Additionally "C&C is just flavor text" applies just as hard to the original Bloodlines. Everyone experiences the same story beats.

 

[jackofshadows]

I would be fine if at least the fixed prot would've been your know, somewhat relatable. This tranny isn't relatable at all to me. And something tells me that the "male" option will be even worse.

 

[sosmoflux]

Modern game development is about doing as little work as possible. None of them want any extra reactivity, that just means more work.
The rare couple of guys that care about this stuff are pushing shit uphill just to keep their games above the bare minimum quality line.

The entire concept of meaningful content that players may miss is a relic of the past. Time wasted. Scope creep.

Of course the outcomes of these conversations have to be the same.

C&C has become flavor text, nothing more.

They have neither the time nor the experience to do this well.

Additionally "C&C is just flavor text" applies just as hard to the original Bloodlines. Everyone experiences the same story beats.

Heather? Different apartments? Missing entire missions/areas/characters, like the Asian vampire in the first town? Several NPC's you can kill or let live? Several quests you fail to reveal the true cause of? Wesp5 help me out here.

 

[Harthwain]

The fundamental issue is about ownership.

Part of it is about ownership, but you could have a fixed (and even voiced) protagonist had said protagonist been interesting or the game offered enough freedom of choice to compensate for the lack of customization of the character the player is playing as. Having three options, and vague ones at that, is simply not enough to do the heavy lifting required.