World of Darkness Vampire: The Masquerade – Bloodlines 2 - VTMB sequel from The Chinese Room - coming Fall 2024

[Delterius]

i am proud to have been optimistic back then

 

[Roguey]

Harthwain

This is what Paradox wants.

"The work that Hardsuit Labs had done got us to a certain point in the project, and while the goals were reasonably aligned, we ultimately had a different vision for the project," said Greaney. "That is why we eventually moved the project to a new team—that's the best way to put it."

https://www.digitaltrends.com/gaming/vampire-the-masquerade-bloodlines-2-new-developer-interview/

“Hardsuit Labs is a great studio, and they did a lot of good work on this project. We just had a very different vision for the final product, and we couldn’t align on that vision,” Greaney tells Digital Trends. “And so the right thing to do was to end the collaboration and find a studio that shared that vision.”

Because that clash in vision was big enough to cause Paradox Interactive to change development partners and delay the game’s release by several years, it begs the question of what Paradox’s overarching vision is for Bloodlines 2. According to Greaney, it’s a Bloodlines 2 that “nails the player fantasy [of] being a vampire in a video game and also brought Vampire the Masquerade V5 [a role-playing game] to a video game and showed us what that feels like.”

Greaney was adamant that Bloodlines 2 faithfully represents Vampire: The Masquerade 5th Edition during our conversation, and it seemed he wanted a studio that felt the same way.

Paradox's vision - bone-crunching melee combat, predator stealth, a voice in your head stating the obvious all the time, and little else. By "faithfully represent Vampire: The Masquerade 5th Edition" he only means the tone, they were apparently free to throw the rules right out the window.

Glassdoor review from the past

No commitment to RPG Division or 5 year plan which makes setting up plan difficult

Difficulty within studio and within owned studios like Hardsuit on how to develop an RPG – Paradox knows how to make a Paradox game but not an RPG and is resistant to learn

Four years later and nothing's changed. My 2022 prediction otoh:

Me back in 2022:

Paradox said they were cutting the budgets of all their externally-developed games in their last financial report. It's going to have a significantly lowered scope (not only because of that but because Paradox wants to ship something that isn't a dumpsterfire of code). I'd expect a 10-20 hour game with Bioware-style reactivity, likely with fewer clan choices/abilities than BL2 was going to have.

So far everything's lining up with my expectations.

Still on track. But they cut a lot more than I expected them to.

People were concerned that there wouldn't be any loot at all because the teaser trailer features no melee or ranged weapons used by the player.

Just nonstop pessimism no matter what they say or show or don't say or don't show.

Turns out the pessimists were right about this aspect.

 

[Grunker]

Turns out the pessimists were right

New Codex tagline

 

[Storyfag]

brujah elder with little to no muscle mass

[in the voice of Jason Carl playing Fiorenza Savona] Victor, my boy. [/in the voice of Jason Carl playing Fiorenza Savona]

The strength of the Brujah and other Clans emplying Potence is supernatural. Why would a Brujah elder have significant muscle mass? Why would the elder status have any meaning in this context, given how the bodies of vampires are static, outside of Protean and Vicissitude?

 

[Lambach]

given how the bodies of vampires are static, outside of Protean and Vicissitude?

Yeah, this always preplexed me a bit. Vampires without Potence are capable of putting EXP into Strength to increase it, and that attribute is supposed to represent your regular old non-supernatural strength.

So after getting Embraced, you're theoretically capable of going from average (Strength 2) to a world-class proffesional competitive strongman (5) without putting on any muscle mass whatsoever.

 

[Storyfag]

I agree and genuinely believe this is why videogame development keeps spinning its wheels, failing time and again to match the milestones of yesteryear, let alone innovate on them. People keep saying "oh, they don't have any life experience, they don't read the right books or watch the right films", as if the people who developed their favourite classics were all war heroes and hard-nosed intellectuals... No, I just think they're playing the wrong games, that their nostalgic frame of reference isn't where it'd benefit them most, and it really seems like a lot of studios expect to "continue" old IPs without doing much... homework.

The Hardsuit Bloodlines was about as faithful a sequel as one could possibly be and it still looked terrible.

No, it was cheap pandering. Prince Cross indeed.

 

[Storyfag]

given how the bodies of vampires are static, outside of Protean and Vicissitude?

Yeah, this always preplexed me a bit. Vampires without Potence are capable of putting EXP into Strength to increase it, and that attribute is supposed to represent your regular old non-supernatural strength.

So after getting Embraced, you're theoretically capable of going from average (Strength 2) to a world-class proffesional competitive strongman (5) without putting on any muscle mass whatsoever.

I would explain it by that Strength being supernatural too. Just not as overtly Blood powered as Potence.

 

[The President]

The Hardsuit Bloodlines was about as faithful a sequel as one could possibly be and it still looked terrible.

Yet in retrospect it looks better than what we currently are about to get.

AFAIR the HSL version hadn't even reached alpha yet, still the demo was much more interesting than this one.

Paradox is very good at strategy games with dlc-milking systems and have been universally terrible with RPGs. They botched Tyranny (with a lot of help from Feargus). They completely mishandled Harebrained Schemes. They had to cancel Digimancy's game. They gave up on funding Draw Distance's Hunter game midway through development. They've mismanaged the World of Darkness brand for nearly a decade now.

I can’t argue against this one. Just seems odd how they can’t put two and two together after a decade, or figure out who to ask to get it right.

Just look at Disney burning Star Wars and Marvel to the ground, huge corporations are very slow sometimes.

I agree on the HSL demo. It had a lot of flaws, but the Bloodlines feel was there and it had potential. I also liked that it wasn’t commentated with a Q&A and was just 35 minutes of walking around the hub and doing a mission. I have more questions than answers after watching the new Demo and they aren’t flattering questions. It’s a shame how this is becoming another Disney story with a corporation buying an IP it just doesn’t “get”.

We were too harsh on this, 3 years later it actually doesn't look that bad... come back Mitsoda...

Told you guys

Well, when you’re right you’re right. I had my hopes this game would have improved on the technical aspects which I was told were sorely lacking in HSL’s version but in retrospect it looks like they threw everything away that was positive in it.

 

[Vibalist]

It'd be pretty weird if vampires were forced to endure an entire unlife with a strength of 1 just because they happened to be weaklings when they were humans.

 

[Lambach]

It'd be pretty weird if vampires were forced to endure an entire unlife with a strength of 1 just because they happened to be weaklings when they were humans.

Or an entire unlife with Appearance 1 because they were Reddit mods when they were alive.

 

[Delterius]

It'd be pretty weird if vampires were forced to endure an entire unlife with a strength of 1 just because they happened to be weaklings when they were humans.

They aren't. But their appearance won't change. The whole supernatural strength contrasting with person's actual body is a staple of all fiction tbh.

 

[Lambach]

But their appearance won't change.

>grind XP for a couple of decades
>pump it all into Appearance
>finally get to 5
>become one of the couple dozen most beautiful people in the world, ITT

tfw your appearance didn't change, but your Appearance went from -1 to 5:

 

[Delterius]

>grind XP for a couple of decades

tzimisce fleshcrafting btfo by the xp system

 

[Semiurge]

The lack of guns will really be rofl-level if enemies don't have guns either. In a game set in the US.

Maybe that's exactly why. Every passing year breaks the previous record of gun violence and random mass shootings.

Think about it, and take another look at some of the people in charge of this

 

[Roguey]

Going to be a laugh riot if there are cops in this game and they chase after you with their bobby sticks like it's England. We already saw a bit of that with the Second Inquisition in the reveal trailer.

No, it was cheap pandering. Prince Cross indeed.

It was cheap pandering and it was also a faithful sequel when it came to content. You had Bloodlines-esque hubs, dialogue, and character system. Bit too faithful with vampires moving from LA to Seattle for no good reason and a straight up remake of the Ocean House Hotel.

 

[ind33d]

is it true that Rik Schaffer, the composer for VTMB, offered to come back for 2 but they turned him down because these gay hipsters thought they could do a better job? holy fuck lmao

 

[Roguey]

is it true that Rik Schaffer, the composer for VTMB, offered to come back for 2 but they turned him down because these gay hipsters thought they could do a better job? holy fuck lmao

Yes, Rik was supposed to do music for Hardsuit's version but is very obviously not involved in this one.

 

[Lambach]

is it true that Rik Schaffer, the composer for VTMB, offered to come back for 2 but they turned him down because these gay hipsters thought they could do a better job? holy fuck lmao

They turned him down because he was too expensive, IIRC, but I could be wrong.

Either way, they did him a huge favor, whether he realizes it or not. Imagine having your name and work forever linked to fucking P H Y R E, lmao.

 

[Delterius]

is it true that Rik Schaffer, the composer for VTMB, offered to come back for 2 but they turned him down because these gay hipsters thought they could do a better job? holy fuck lmao

He was already back for Mitsodalines but I don't know if he was purged together with the rest of the yankees. Haven't heard a pip about him since though.

It's sad really because at least I'd have more soundtracks to listen to.

 

[ind33d]

is it true that Rik Schaffer, the composer for VTMB, offered to come back for 2 but they turned him down because these gay hipsters thought they could do a better job? holy fuck lmao

Yes, Rik was supposed to do music for Hardsuit's version but is very obviously not involved in this one.

I still listen to the ambient night music from VTM1. Talk about knocking it out of the park. I swear the entire gaming industry is run by downies

 

[Hellraiser]

It seems everywhere I checked the reaction to the gameplay is mostly negative.

Truly a dumpsterphyre in the making.

 

[Gargaune]

Not sure about callings, but in the HSL demo you receive at the beginning a text message

We were too harsh on this, 3 years later it actually doesn't look that bad... come back Mitsoda...

Man, I do sympathise with those poor suits at Paradox, I gotta be honest.

Paradox: "Hey, check out our super cool Bloodlines sequel from HSL!"
Fans: "Niiieeewww, this is shit, it's not worthy of our precious Bloodlines!"
Paradox: shitcans HSL, deletes fucking everything, gets TCR to do it over from scratch
Paradox: "Hey, check out our new and improved Bloodlines sequel from TCR!"
Fans: "... The HSL one was better, why can't we have that?!"

If I were running Paradox at this point, I'd cancel the TCR project too and make Bloodlines 2 a mobile racing game.

 

[Delterius]

It seems everywhere I checked the reaction to the gameplay is mostly negative.

Truly a dumpsterphyre in the making.

Yes, I was thinking to myself: maybe this has some appeal somehow and I'm not enough for a normie to get it. Maybe I'm too 'held back' by expecting an RPG.

But no, I can't find positive reactions anywhere. The closest is 'oh this guy has a laundry list of uncertainty but likes the UI'.

 

[Tyranicon]

If I had to guess, this game is targeted towards people who like walking sims with light gameplay elements and detective themes.

If I was being cynical/realistic, I would say this entire project was being pushed out simply to capitalize on those Steam wishlists and console preorders.

Paradox already cut their losses a long time ago. Yeah, sure, they and TCR will take a little heat for the end result, but gamers™ will forget about this fiasco easily enough, and even if they don't the RPG audience isn't even in PDX or TCR's general market.

 

[Delterius]

Paradox already cut their losses a long time ago.

The question is: do we actually trust Paradox when they and TCR come out and say that they had their own vision for the game? Because if we do, then Paradox isn't just cutting their losses. They actually wanted this. They wanted Vampire 2077 to be made rather than an RPG like Bloodlines. They might genuinely believe that this has more market appeal than the original game ever did.