World of Darkness Vampire: The Masquerade – Swansong - narrative RPG from The Council devs - now on Steam

[Harthwain]

Ahhh, I see. It's the old "I don't have a problem with this, but if things were somewhat different then I predict other people would have a problem with it, so now I have a huge problem with it." Way to go.

But isn't this the real problem though?

If artists have to self-censor themselves in order to avoid getting negative attention from a bunch of people, then something isn't right. I mean, Rowling was roasted for having the "male villain who dresses as a woman in order to kill women" because it was supposedly transphobic. There was also the claim that black people are more often cast as villains, which reinforces the racial stereotype of "black is bad".

And because of this nonsense it is not unreasonable to wonder whether developers are doing what they are doing because they wanted to or because this is the safe course of action and the way for them to sneak past the hot potato issue ("We'll showcast the main character as the black person in the trailer for PR reasons, but will give people the option the skin color for themselves so we won't have to deal with any drama").

I blame the social media, because they allow some vocal people blow things way out of proportion and the media are going to latch onto any scandalously-looking topic and stoke the fire as much as possible. There are some people who don't give a damn (Vavra, for one), but for the most part developers and publishers aren't going to make a stand, even if they don't necessarily agree with the whole push.

 

[Sergiu64]

The problem is that there's no evidence that this delay has anything to do with anyone's agenda. So why bring it up? There's Politics subforum for political screeching circlejerk.

 

[Harthwain]

The problem is that there's no evidence that this delay has anything to do with anyone's agenda. So why bring it up? There's Politics subforum for political screeching circlejerk.

The delays are a common thing, I agree. I was referring to the "Official Emem Character Trailer":

Spoiler

 

[Zombra]

It is not unreasonable to wonder whether developers are doing what they are doing because they wanted to or because this is the safe course of action and the way for them to sneak past the hot potato issue.

So now what? Every time we see a black character positively represented, we have to attack the developers, assuming they would never do that "normally"?

 

[Harthwain]

So now what? Every time we see a black character positively represented, we have to attack the developers, assuming they would never do that "normally"?

I am not saying we should attack the developers. I am merely noting that such suspicions are not entirely unfounded, considering all that's going on in the world.

 

[Zombra]

I am not saying we should attack the developers. I am merely noting that such suspicions are not entirely unfounded, considering all that's going on in the world.

Fair enough - but that still begs the question, "So now what?" All art ever was created during a period where social issues were present, and might have been different if the issues were different. Would the Emem trailer somehow have been more valid or acceptable, or "less suspicious", in the year 2000? 1920? 40000 BC? 2200?

I realize you were merely making an observation, but can anything helpful or useful be derived from it? What should be done differently? Should only white characters be shown now because positive black characters are too suspicious?

 

[Harthwain]

Fair enough - but that still begs the question, "So now what?" All art ever was created during a period where social issues were present, and might have been different if the issues were different. Would the Emem trailer somehow have been more valid or acceptable, or "less suspicious", in the year 2000?

Yes. Because back then there was no overarching expectation about what the developers should include in their games, other than it being a game about vampires. Some people will say "Well, Vampire back then was still super liberal" and I am not really going to contest that notion, because the whole point is that even if that were true, then at the very least we knew it was so due to designers/developers/artists own vision and not an agenda forced (directly or indirectly) by some third parties.

I realize you were merely making an observation, but can anything helpful or useful be derived from it? What should be done differently? Should only white characters be shown now because positive black characters are too suspicious?

Honestly, I don't know how to get out of this pigeonhole of a situation. The whole thing is caused by the excessive political correctness, so maybe if people are allowed to do their job without having to fret over what kinds of standards they are supposed to adhere to, then the result of their work will feel more natural than it does otherwise?

 

[Zombra]

stuff

I'm not buying it. This "back in the good old days, artists didn't try to make their product palatable to contemporary culture" seems like ... utter bullshit.

 

[Harthwain]

I'm not buying it. This "back in the good old days, artists didn't try to make their product palatable to contemporary culture" seems like ... utter bullshit.

Well, I am not selling anything. It's just my opinion on how I see this and I do accept the possibility of being wrong. But I do believe that the best way to do it is by making it appear natural, because if you try to force something, then it will show in the end and the result won't be as convincing.

 

[distant]

Her design is obviously inspired by ancient Egypt, maybe she has origins there, she's black, don't see the problem.

 

[Zombra]

I'm not buying it. This "back in the good old days, artists didn't try to make their product palatable to contemporary culture" seems like ... utter bullshit.

Well, I am not selling anything. It's just my opinion on how I see this and I do accept the possibility of being wrong. But I do believe that the best way to do it is by making it appear natural, because if you try to force something, then it will show in the end and the result won't be as convincing.

Did the Emem trailer really strike you as "unnatural"? All I saw was "a vulnerable-looking person is going to get mugged but it turns out they are powerful and teh tables aer turned" which is a classic we have seen a million times, sometimes even with white people in it.

 

[Semiurge]

swear Paradox is never going to learn that hiring soyfaced bugmen and transgender landwhales with no talent or experience making games is a bad business decision.

Have you considered the disturbing possibility that those are the only applicants they get?

Look at these fags and tell me you expect a good end product.

They look like your average game designers. You keep expecting uber-Chads.

Her design is obviously inspired by ancient Egypt, maybe she has origins there, she's black, don't see the problem.

I keep seeing the late Aaliyah.

 

[Harthwain]

Did the Emem trailer really strike you as "unnatural"? All I saw was "a vulnerable-looking person is going to get mugged but it turns out they are powerful and teh tables aer turned" which is a classic we have seen a million times, sometimes even with white people in it.

Under normal circumstances this wouldn't be a problem and I personally don't mind the trailer itself. But we live in fucked up times. If makers of Dune 2021 gender- and race-swap Liet Kynes for no other reason than "cast diversity", when YouTube deletes videos showcasting games of chess, because it's "inappropriate content" and when blacks can't be cast as villains, because it supposedly reinforces negative racial stereotypes, then it's really easy to see an agenda in everything, even when there isn't one. That said, I do think Xelocix goes way over the top with his assessment. At least for the moment.

 

[Zombra]

I'm honestly curious, though - were you Harthwain triggered when you saw the trailer?

 

[Xelocix]

That said, I do think Xelocix goes way over the top with his assessment. At least for the moment.

I'm gonna be right and all of you niggers doubting me will get on your knees and beg your prophet for forgiveness.

 

[Harthwain]

I'm honestly curious, though - were you Harthwain triggered when you saw the trailer?

No. It makes sense, so I don't have a problem with that.

I'm gonna be right and all of you niggers doubting me will get on your knees and beg your prophet for forgiveness.

We shall see. Like I said, I could be wrong here, but right now I don't find anything too unreasonable about the game. Unlike Bloodlines 2.

 

[Zombra]

I'm gonna be right and all of you niggers doubting me will get on your knees and beg your prophet for forgiveness.

Being racist and arrogant isn't enough to make your mark on the Codex. You're going to need another gimmick for anyone to even remember who you are by the time this comes out in May. (More likely August at this rate but who's counting.)

 

[Xelocix]

Being racist and arrogant isn't enough to make your mark on the Codex. You're going to need another gimmick for anyone to even remember who you are by the time this comes out in May. (More likely August at this rate but who's counting.)

 

[cyborgboy95]

What does immortal life truly bring? Wealth? Power?

No, it brings suffering!

As the years pass and you lose everything you once cared about... the only thing left is "Anger of Death", the theme song for Galeb, our cold and calculating Ventrue.

 

[Vincente]

That's a really cool art, perfect for Ventrue.

 

[Infinitron]

Some new gameplay snippets in here:

Vampire: The Masquerade - Swansong is a narrative RPG where you play as 3 vampires, each of them a member of a secret society pulling the strings of humanity from the shadows. When a night of celebration turns to bloodshed, the choices they make will define the fate of Boston. Find out more about Swansong in this video!

Vampire: The Masquerade - Swansong is coming to Xbox One, Xbox Series X|S, PlayStation 4, PlayStation 5, PC on May 19th, and later to Nintendo Switch.

 

[bertram_tung]

Black woman, brown man, and sjw haircut white woman.

Bravo master troll job by these devs

 

[Storyfag]

Black woman, brown man, and sjw haircut white woman.

Bravo master troll job by these devs

Galeb isn't that brown. Could easily be a Spaniard, Italian or Greek. Naturally those nations would fit a Lasombra better, but no Clan embraces exclusively within any given group. Even the Giovanni branched out far and wide from Venice.

 

[T.Ashpool]

no white male ventrue or toreador to identify with, i guess i will take my business somewhere else then, the devs obviously don't want my money

 

[frajaq]

mite b cool