Vault Dweller's Theoretical Introduction to the cRPG genre, with Examples Aplenty

[1eyedking]

it rewards teamplay

lol, teamplay on Counter Strike. Enjoy your fantasies.

If you constantly play on public servers like a noob.

Can't play privates? How unfortunate! It's a game that requires skill. You know, skill. What you normally don't require for CRPGs (since that's what your character stats do lol!).

 

[Temoid]

How is that relevant to the topic at hand? This is a discussion of crpgs, not action games.

 

[Jasede]

I laugh out loud anytime someone suggests that stats, quests, inventory, or multiple-choice-dialog define a game as an RPG.

You're a cunt. Not a noble angry cunt, nope, you're just a retarded cunt who doesn't know shit about RPGs. Get the fuck off here.

Aren't you the guy who said Microsoft is evil, piracy is good, etc?

 

[1eyedking]

I agree with the furry.

 

[Amasius]

I laugh out loud anytime someone suggests that stats, quests, inventory, or multiple-choice-dialog define a game as an RPG.

You're a cunt. Not a noble angry cunt, nope, you're just a retarded cunt who doesn't know shit about RPGs. Get the fuck off here.

Aren't you the guy who said Microsoft is evil, piracy is good, etc?

Nah, I'm sure he knows the ultimate and incontrovertible definition of what makes a game an RPG that would end all discussions. To bad that he isn't willing to share...

 

[elander_]

If it doesn't have furries it isn't an crpg.

 

[inwoker]

Sorry fellow codiciers, more offtopic ahead.

What's brilliant about it's design?

cool because

So you don't see difference?

this is interesting, still anything brilliant at all

If you don't see those changes as revolutionary, then you don't understand anything about game mechanics design.

Don't jump. I asked what's so brilliant, I didn't argue revolution or something.
About article, thanks interesting read.

Name the games and their strategies. They must have come before CS.

Are you saying that before cstrike games didn't have strategies? If so, well, did you play them, how long, did you read pro-gamers tips on them?
Okey, i'll write only those which has strategies for sure - quake - quake3, unreal tournament, unreal.
Not sure about doom, doom2, duke nukem, but 90% that they have it.
May provide links, if you insist, cannot describe strategies in readable form because I'm not pro-gamer and not native english speaker, so it's hard for me.

planting & defusing (inside a 3-minute window) is a very nice multiplayer mode

this is not more than opinion

You might misunderstood, I quoted properly now.

...planting & defusing (inside a 3-minute window) is a very nice multiplayer mode, making the game more static and less of a jump-around-fest.

I don't see how this is improvement in gameplay, it's more question of preference.

me thinks that, as you said jump-around-fest is much more interesting

That last part made me snort.

So what? Is it try of insult or what? Someone prefers q3 to cs makes you snort?

Ehem. Well, besides, that 'option'

what option? where did i say option?

(as you said) is nothing short of revolutionary. To deny the tremendous change in gameplay that multiplayer mode has brought to the medium is to declare oneself ignorant.

where did i deny it? i said it's not brilliant design. about 'revolutionary', you know I may say that cstrike provided different multiplayer, but i can't say revolutionary or better to what exiisted before.

Take a look at the huge amount of games that copied it: Medal of Honor, Call of Duty, Day of Defeat, Firearms, etc. It was a huge departure from the deathmatch and CTF methods.

Know, so?

noise plays very important role in every multiplayer shooter

Not as important as in Counter-Strike. Games before it didn't place as much emphasis (or didn't have noises outright).

Had you at least once seriously played quake? Just say me dude, how much info can you gain from sounds in cstrike(i'm not denying that there is much, mu justthinks that less than quake)? In quake by just listening to sounds properly you know where your opponent is, if he caries lighing or rail you'd hear that, almost all game is based on listening to sounds.

and a bit more fanboism

so, still don't see anything brilliant, only some moderate fanboism

Boy, calling a someone a fanboy makes for the wittiest of retorts.

no just read what you wrote and use less buzzwords like revolutoinary, cool, tremendous, kickass, genius, fluid, perfect etc. when you describing game design and don't say that if somebody can't see something obvious too you he understand nothing because you sound like oblivion fanboy or this forum famous furry Jasede

 

[inwoker]

everybody knows that facegen defines rpg, you morons

 

[Aegeri]

everybody knows that facegen defines rpg, you morons

And playing as a lizard.

 

[Vault Dweller]

Just saw this at the Watch:
http://www.next-gen.biz/index.php?optio ... &Itemid=59

The RPG is increasingly becoming a paradox – more progressive in its mechanics, and ever more pure in its attempts to make the role you play a persuasive, transparent experience. Although there is justifiable nostalgia for games like Fallout, Planescape: Torment and their predecessors, persisting in the use of tabletop gaming mechanics is in some ways a backwards perspective. Alongside gaming’s infatuation with cinema, the reliance on tabletop mechanics is the result of a fledgling medium attempting to ground itself within the familiar. Such structures are used in the PnP world to lend solidity to what can otherwise be difficult to grasp, difficult to control. The digital medium has other problems, but a lack of restriction is rarely one of them. [...]

Increasingly, the dependence upon statistics and other abstracted means of representation is becoming an albatross, insofar as singleplayer videogames are concerned – strangely so, for a medium whose strengths are in direct interactivity and immediate visual feedback. In fact, games that make the best of these qualities have a better chance of truly fulfilling the only important goal of those tabletop games: the ability to imagine yourself in another’s shoes – the freedom to choose a role.

 

[1eyedking]

[...]

I won't even comment on those answers, as you're definitely having trouble cutting through things. Don't like buzzwords? OK, I'll bring my thesaurus the next time; this is an internet forum for fuck's sake, not an academical convention.

And please do cite those games.

 

[Gnidrologist]

Just saw this at the Watch:
http://www.next-gen.biz/index.php?optio ... &Itemid=59

The RPG is increasingly becoming a paradox – more progressive in its mechanics, and ever more pure in its attempts to make the role you play a persuasive, transparent experience. Although there is justifiable nostalgia for games like Fallout, Planescape: Torment and their predecessors, persisting in the use of tabletop gaming mechanics is in some ways a backwards perspective. Alongside gaming’s infatuation with cinema, the reliance on tabletop mechanics is the result of a fledgling medium attempting to ground itself within the familiar. Such structures are used in the PnP world to lend solidity to what can otherwise be difficult to grasp, difficult to control. The digital medium has other problems, but a lack of restriction is rarely one of them. [...]

Increasingly, the dependence upon statistics and other abstracted means of representation is becoming an albatross, insofar as singleplayer videogames are concerned – strangely so, for a medium whose strengths are in direct interactivity and immediate visual feedback. In fact, games that make the best of these qualities have a better chance of truly fulfilling the only important goal of those tabletop games: the ability to imagine yourself in another’s shoes – the freedom to choose a role.

:D :shock:

 

[AlanC9]

There's a lot of alarming stuff in that article:

The Argo team is more focused on ‘visual storytelling’. We don’t have +3 swords in Argo: we have maces that knock the enemy back, spears that impale him, and swords to cut him in half. We feel that the best rewards are the ones you can see. We’re giving the player a fulfilling experience rather than fulfilling the expectations of a genre

OK, so what happens if there are two different maces in the game?

And then there's the Pete Hines bit, which is just sad. Trying to reduce dependence on the stat screens? Morrowind and Oblivion reward constantly checking your stat screen more than any RPG I've ever played.

“It rewards you for using your skills, rather than giving out experience points,” says Hines. “So we like for the player to simply get better at doing whatever it is they do. We don’t need to beat them over the head with stats.”

Think he ever played the game?

I'm not necessarily opposed to their goals, but if this is the way they're planning to achieve them....

 

[inwoker]

[...]

I won't even comment on those answers, as you're definitely having trouble cutting through things.

Oh, I see. Be more specific or don't say something stupid.

Don't like buzzwords?

What an original interpretation of my answer. tip: did I state that i don't like buzzwords?

OK, I'll bring my thesaurus the next time

looking forward

this is an internet forum for fuck's sake, not an academical convention

so, if this is teh internets, and somebody asked you to describe brilliance of design, you don't need to do it with normal arguments?

And please do cite those games.

more specific task please

 

[kingcomrade]

It's a game that requires skill. You know, skill.

Enjoy your delusions.

 

[1eyedking]

Whatever, Inwoker.

Enjoy your delusions.

Oh, really?

PS: Counter-Strike got banned in Brazil two weeks ago, LOL. I suspect something more besides "promoting subversive behavior". Perhaps a move to keep the kiddies away from counterproductive activities?

 

[Gromnir]

...

am gonna take a look at vd's essay... am morbidly curious. is same kinda anticipation we would have 'fore reading an article from tim cain entitled: How To Construct a Working Business Model. maybe britney spears writes an essay 'bout staying grounded in spite of fame? perhaps Gromnir should write an article 'bout how to win friends and influence people via the internet?

vd's views has always been noteworthy for the brevity of the chuckle value they afford... a hiccup o' mirth due to almost ridiculous extremism. if vd stays true-to-form chances are we won't get very far into his essay before we is sated. one hiccup is kinda refreshing, but string em together and they becomes disquieting.

nevertheless, there is always a chance that vd has experienced a personal sea change, and Gromnir will, yet agin, gives him a chance to show us that he gots insights o' value. is maybe a slightly masochistic endeavour, but Gromnir is stubborn beyond all reason... am always willing to give folks another chance. after all, even vol has occasionally had something o' value to share.

HA! Good Fun!

 

[Vault Dweller]

You are too kind, Gromnir.

 

[Vault Dweller]

When I wrote the article, I added the definition mostly for the lulz, but they ended up generating a lot of discussions, so I decided to put some thoughts into it and categorize sun-genres properly.

Old Man's Ramblings: RPG sub-genres