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Preview VE plays Oblivion

kris

Arcane
Joined
Oct 27, 2004
Messages
8,867
Location
Lulea, Sweden
Gromnir said:
most people say that troika is dead. most people say that troika had some good ideas that never seemed to become part of a playable game. most people liked aspects of troika games.

Then again, more than canbe said about so many other games. In fact liking "aspects of a game" is likely as far as we will ever get.
 

Section8

Cipher
Joined
Oct 23, 2002
Messages
4,321
Location
Wardenclyffe
Character customization might have mattered in Van Buren. I remember Sawyer saying that in The Black Hound, NPC reacted even to different hair styles and that they worked really hard to ensure the choices aren't purely cosmetic.

Guh, not that I expected any less, but did anyone read the Oblivion preview that went something along the lines of "On entering the first town, I was very pleased to notice that nobody harboured any prejudice toward my orcish character." Why is that pleasing? That's like saying "On getting into my first fight, I was pleased to notice that I couldn't be harmed in any way, and I could kill everything in a single blow." Conflict and challenge are fucking interesting, always. Even if you don't know or recognise it, conflict interests everyone.
 

Vault Dweller

Commissar, Red Star Studio
Developer
Joined
Jan 7, 2003
Messages
28,038
Yep. That's a game from an era before technology enthusiasts like Antiphon fucked everything up.
 

Vault Dweller

Commissar, Red Star Studio
Developer
Joined
Jan 7, 2003
Messages
28,038
Gromnir said:
"Most people say Troika. "

most people say that troika is dead. most people say that troika had some good ideas that never seemed to become part of a playable game. most people liked aspects of troika games.
Ever heard of context?

MOST people says that troika never quite managed to makes a good game. maybe they came close a couple of times, but troika only ever really succeeded in one thing: failing to live up to expectations. nevertheless, 'cause some of the troika guys had fallout on their resume they got a free pass from "most people" at this site... if nowhere else.
Your bias is amusing. Considering that you complained about our bias for years, your hypocrisy is even more amusing.
 

Gromnir

Liturgist
Joined
Jan 11, 2004
Messages
394
as vd is a bit of a yutz we wouldn't call his last post ironic or nothing... 'cause such nonsense is exactly what one would expect from him. nevertheless, he seems to be confused 'bout just who is the hypocrite and what means "bias" and "context."

yeah, is Gromnir that gots the bias...

HA!

you kids never fails to give us a laugh or two.

HA! Good Fun!
 

Vault Dweller

Commissar, Red Star Studio
Developer
Joined
Jan 7, 2003
Messages
28,038
@ Gromnir

Well, don't you think that your strong dislike of Troika's games is as much of a bias as our "like"? No? Didn't occur to you at all?

At least we have a reason to like the Troika's games and overlook the flaws - we value role-playing aspects the most, and Arcanum's strength in that area could hardly be disputed. ToEE was more of a combat simulator, but Bloodlines, despite the flaws, which were pointed out, btw, also offered a lot as an RPG. What's your reason to dislike them?

Also, since you are having difficulties grasping the concept of context and applying it to the conversation, I'll give you a hand. Most Fallout fans, i.e. people who give a damn about Fallout 3 as that what the conversation was about, would say Troika. Most players in general, 80% of whom either didn't like Fallout or even hear about, would say something like what you mentioned. Can you see my point now or do I need to do more spelling out for you?
 

Gromnir

Liturgist
Joined
Jan 11, 2004
Messages
394
"Well, don't you think that your strong dislike of Troika's games is as much of a bias as our "like"? No? Didn't occur to you at all? "

*chuckle*

not have a strong dislike for troika games troika games were buggy and unfinished, but like most people we could see a great deal of potential in their games. stated many times that we woulda' hoped that troika got a second chance at a toee-type game, 'cause while it were't spazmo review great, we could see how most of its problems were fixable. if we had some unreasonable and unreasoned dislike of troika, then why on earth would we have been lobbying for a toee sequel? furthermore, fallout, though not a troika game per se, is one of our favorite crpgs... though not to the degree that you "folks idolize.

did the possibility that Gromnir has a bias 'gainst troika occur to us? sure it did, but such a conclusion seems highly unlikely considering the facts... but vd never lets fact get in the way of his obtuse rants. just 'cause somebody disagrees with not mean that they gots bias.


"At least we have a reason to like the Troika's games and overlook the flaws"

and that is why you is biased. you purposefully overlook the flaws. Gromnir doesn't. you know the flaws is there, but choose to ignore. you recognize the flaws and cry foul when Gromnir points 'em out? yeah, Gromnir is the biased one.

yutz.

"Also, since you are having difficulties grasping the concept of context and applying it to the conversation, I'll give you a hand. Most Fallout fans, i.e. people who give a damn about Fallout 3 as that what the conversation was about"

you is fast approaching exitum stoopidity levels. the convo were indeed 'bout fallout 3... but how you somehow makes "most people" in relation to a fallout 3 debate = and is limited to, fans of the first fallout game, is just plain retarded (or simply more evidence of codex bias.) if Most People = fans of fallout, then "most people" better buy 2 or three copies of fallout 3 'cause bethesda will be losing lots of money. you want us to lnik bri's nma post again where he notes that fallout weren't a particularly great seller? no?

no doubt bethesda is hopeful that most people is a sligtly more expansive group than vd assumes. lord knows "most people" couldn't possibly = "most gamers" or even "most crpg fans" or "most of the folks bethesda hopes will buy fallout three"... 'cause that would be wacky. strict literal def. and even in limited context, only a fanatic likes yourself would try to prop up such a terrible argument.


*shrug*

as a fanatic, a zealot of the fiction of fallout, we not expect you to be reasonable. we thinks of you in same light as most cult members... but the way you is willing to fight tooth and nail to hold on to the illusion that you is unbiased is just plain creepy. the living example of persons who can selectively abandon reason is always a bit spooky.

HA! Good Fun!
 

Vault Dweller

Commissar, Red Star Studio
Developer
Joined
Jan 7, 2003
Messages
28,038
Gromnir said:
... though not to the degree that you "folks idolize.

did the possibility that Gromnir has a bias 'gainst troika occur to us? sure it did, but such a conclusion seems highly unlikely considering the facts... but vd never lets fact get in the way of his obtuse rants. just 'cause somebody disagrees with not mean that they gots bias.
Rants? What rants? Anyway, my apologies for not being up-to-date on your likes & dislikes. So, then you don't have an issue with Troika, but with people "idolizing" Troika. In other words, with people having different opinions, no?

and that is why you is biased. you purposefully overlook the flaws. Gromnir doesn't. you know the flaws is there, but choose to ignore.
First, I've never denied the flaws. Second, there are things that bother me in games, and there are things that don't. Troika's games flaws happened to be in the "don't really bother me" areas. I didn't try to overlook them and pretend they don't exist. We have different tastes, so you see the good and the bad sides differently. Good for you, but you have to realize that what we are talking is not my bias, but the differences of opinions.

you recognize the flaws and cry foul when Gromnir points 'em out?
Does that BS come with examples?

you is fast approaching exitum stoopidity levels. the convo were indeed 'bout fallout 3... but how you somehow makes "most people" in relation to a fallout 3 debate = and is limited to, fans of the first fallout game, is just plain retarded (or simply more evidence of codex bias.) if Most People = fans of fallout, then "most people" better buy 2 or three copies of fallout 3 'cause bethesda will be losing lots of money. you want us to lnik bri's nma post again where he notes that fallout weren't a particularly great seller? no?
*sigh* If I say "most people prefer single malt", would "most people" imply that I'm talking about most people on Earth, most people of drinking age, or most people who like whisky? Nice try, though.

no doubt bethesda is hopeful that most people is a sligtly more expansive group than vd assumes.
Let's hope, for Bethesda's sake.

... but the way you is willing to fight tooth and nail to hold on to the illusion that you is unbiased is just plain creepy.
Not as creepy as your unwilingness to comprehend while reading.
 

Vault Dweller

Commissar, Red Star Studio
Developer
Joined
Jan 7, 2003
Messages
28,038
Levski 1912 said:
Does this guy think he's original just because he's talking like an orc?
Something like that. That's Gromnir, an old veteran of the Interplay boards. His persona has inspired developers to add Gromnir, yet another Bhaalspawn, to the conclusion of the BG saga, encouraging him to stick with it. He's not stupid, but he's biased as fuck and stubborn like Volourn, as seen from his silly attempt to weasel his way out of that "most people" argument. He's probably too old to change, so we have to accept him for what he is.
 

GhanBuriGhan

Erudite
Joined
Aug 8, 2005
Messages
1,170
Vault Dweller said:
Levski 1912 said:
Does this guy think he's original just because he's talking like an orc?
Something like that. That's Gromnir, an old veteran of the Interplay boards. His persona has inspired developers to add Gromnir, yet another Bhaalspawn, to the conclusion of the BG saga, encouraging him to stick with it. He's not stupid, but he's biased as fuck and stubborn like Volourn, as seen from his silly attempt to weasel his way out of that "most people" argument. He's probably too old to change, so we have to accept him for what he is.

Everyone here has his little biases round here I would say. Just some biases are more accepted than others :)
 

Vault Dweller

Commissar, Red Star Studio
Developer
Joined
Jan 7, 2003
Messages
28,038
All biases are accepted here, Ghan. In fact, we are much more tolerating (in some aspects) than most other internet communities. If one can talk, argue, and explain, one will get accepted. Just look at Volourn who openly loved, praised, and worshipped the Codex most hated game of 2002-2003 - NWN. We don't have a shortage of MW/OB fans either.
 

Gromnir

Liturgist
Joined
Jan 11, 2004
Messages
394
"Rants? What rants? Anyway, my apologies for not being up-to-date on your likes & dislikes. So, then you don't have an issue with Troika, but with people "idolizing" Troika. In other words, with people having different opinions, no?"

for chrissakes vd. even you can do better than this. worst attempt at logic we seen in months... honest.

again, is not that you like troika games that causes Gromnir to note bias. it is your lack of reason in defending and supporting troika games that causes Gromnir to toss you into same mental category with moonies and fans of robert jordan. blind faith.

you claim that you has seen flaws in troika games, and therefore you not got bias... just a different opinion? foul. we call foul. same flaws in other games makes you howl like a little baby. in troika games they is no biggie? bias. again, it ain't the opinion, but your lack of any sort of reason when expressing that opinion.

you want examples? no you don't. digs up the old toee revie or any of a number of bio threads over the past couple of years. maybe you not admit it, but you kids really not come off so well in those threads. zealots. nevertheless, the search function is your friend.

"*sigh* If I say "most people prefer single malt", would "most people" imply that I'm talking about most people on Earth, most people of drinking age, or most people who like whisky? Nice try, though."

...

nonsense. you manages to top yourself with nonsense. if scotch had as many fans as fallout does, no maker of scotch would ever stay in business. if makes you feel better than thinks of scotch drinkers as analogous to sp crpg fans. is a relative small sub-genre of gamers, just as is scotch drinkers a small sub-genre of alcoholics. single-malt scotch has lots of different distillers... some good and some bad. troika were a crappy distiller of scotch. most people agree... and that is one of reasons why they no longer is in the business of making scotch... or sp crpgs.

with all the practice one would think vd would get better at this... or at least know when to quit.

obtuse. never seen a collective crpg fan board take obtuse to such preternatural degree.

btw, how on earth is Gromnir trying to weasel out of the "most people" argument. plain english is 'gainst you and so is common sense, and Gromnir has stepped up and beat you silly with both. you just is too punch drunk to realize?

creepy.

HA! Good Fun!
 

Vault Dweller

Commissar, Red Star Studio
Developer
Joined
Jan 7, 2003
Messages
28,038
Gromnir said:
again, is not that you like troika games that causes Gromnir to note bias. it is your lack of reason in defending and supporting troika games that causes Gromnir to toss you into same mental category with moonies and fans of robert jordan. blind faith.
Like this review from 2004?

you claim that you has seen flaws in troika games, and therefore you not got bias... just a different opinion? foul. we call foul. same flaws in other games makes you howl like a little baby.
I would really appreciate an example here. Y'know, to help me become a better member of society and stuff.

you want examples? no you don't. digs up the old toee revie or any of a number of bio threads over the past couple of years. maybe you not admit it, but you kids really not come off so well in those threads. zealots. nevertheless, the search function is your friend.
Like this thread?

nonsense. you manages to top yourself with nonsense. if scotch had as many fans as fallout does, no maker of scotch would ever stay in business.
How's the number of fans relevant to the discussion?

if makes you feel better than thinks of scotch drinkers as analogous to sp crpg fans. is a relative small sub-genre of gamers, just as is scotch drinkers a small sub-genre of alcoholics. single-malt scotch has lots of different distillers... some good and some bad. troika were a crappy distiller of scotch. most people agree... and that is one of reasons why they no longer is in the business of making scotch... or sp crpgs.
I disagree with your analogy as neither scotch is a relatively small sub-genre nor Troika was a crappy distiller. Speaking of which, how does "not have a strong dislike for troika games" go with " troika were a crappy distiller of scotch"?
 

Cimmerian Nights

Liturgist
Joined
Aug 20, 2004
Messages
428
Location
The Roche Motel
It's quite obvious why Troika gets let off the hook. They seperated themselves from the herd - they aimed high. Sure they fell short, but their games still come off better than those who shoot for mediocrity and achieve it.
 

GhanBuriGhan

Erudite
Joined
Aug 8, 2005
Messages
1,170
Spazmo said:
Just like everyone else in the world, <a href=http://www.http://ve3d.ign.com>Voodoo Extreme</a> got some hands on time with Oblivion and did a <a href=http://ve3d.ign.com/articles/691/691326p1.html>write up</a>. It turns out it's some kind of RPG where you play a guy with a sword named Swordguy.<blockquote>All the familiar races of The Elder Scrolls series are present and there are a ton of character customizations to be had. No two faces will be alike. I'm glad these options are in as I think about the 200-plus hours I could be spending playing Oblivion. While you choose your character stats, you don't pick your Birth Sign or Class until you are much farther along in the tutorial. This is a cool feature as you will have fought, cast spells and snuck around quite a bit before you need to make any final decisions.</blockquote>So you can really customize your face to an excruciating degree in a first person game where you'll never see your face anyhow. That's revolutionary game design right there.

Defining the face helps you define your character - at least thats what I would do, create a face that suits the character I have in mind, or maybe see something in the face that gives me an idea who that character might be. Plus its fun to play around with just because.

Don't forget that this is bought technology (Facegen) so it's not like Bethesda wasted a huge amount of time developing this system. It's main good is giving the large number of NPC's unique faces - the chargen is a mere bonus use.
 

Zufuriin

Scholar
Joined
Aug 4, 2005
Messages
110
Don't forget that this is bought technology (Facegen) so it's not like Bethesda wasted a huge amount of time developing this system. It's main good is giving the large number of NPC's unique faces - the chargen is a mere bonus use.
Time? Perhaps not. But money, yes.

Time is money. :idea:
 

Jed

Cipher
Joined
Nov 3, 2002
Messages
3,287
Location
Tech Bro Hell
Gromnir said:
normally the triumvirate of tools that is vd, spaz and st. p, manages to makes Gromnir laugh only as we considers just how obtuse some folks can be, but that were kinda funny without it being exitum funny... retard funny.
I'm savoring the irony of BioWare-fanboy Gromnir calling someone else a "tool."

Oh, sorry, let me get in character: Ha. Me gets good chuckle out of pretensious drama flunkie.
 

Gromnir

Liturgist
Joined
Jan 11, 2004
Messages
394
yeah. bio fan boy is Gromnir. is the kinda stuff you get from codexian folks who never bother to read the bio boards and simply assume facts into existence... most recently Gromnir got a thread at bio locked 'cause we had audacity to claim that je were a mediocre seller. further, we slammed gaider's seeming reluctance to accept criticism from posters, which predictably were not accepted by gaider as constructive criticism. go figure. noted that twitchy action-rpg console stuff like Mass Effect gots 0 interest for us. told the biowarians, yet again, that focus on protagonist in crpg story is wasted effort. pointed out that the nwn villains all sucked...

is stuff only from last month or so. but yeah, we is a bio fan boy 'cause they stuck our semblence in a game?

HA!

'course such poor reasoning is not limited to yokels like jed. vd somehow thinking that the spazmo toee review and resulting thread made codex look anything other than silly is just one example... though we do vd a major disservice by not further mocking his scotch thingie further... makes suggestion that something is clear in context but then confuses the heck out of self with a broken analogy? typical.

"how does "not have a strong dislike for troika games" go with " troika were a crappy distiller of scotch"?"

easily. just as we can imagine a distiller of scotch that made pretty ok scotch that we likes somewhat... but completely failed at business side of things, so too can we imagine liking troika games or aspects of their games while being cognizant of fact that they were pretty much failures as developers of games... as evidenced by their Failure. again, this is part of that whole non-bias thing vd can't get. defend troika to death in spite of all the reasons not to is just as irrational as we would expect from you and yours.

HA! Good Fun!
 

Jed

Cipher
Joined
Nov 3, 2002
Messages
3,287
Location
Tech Bro Hell
Pardon me, "Gromnir, former BioWare fanboy"; now you've moved on to freelance idiocy.

And by the by, it's probably you're lame-ass LARPing that got those threads locked as your opinions are so middle-of-the-road that I can't imagine anyone taking them seriously.
 

Gromnir

Liturgist
Joined
Jan 11, 2004
Messages
394
so when were we a fan boy? not now. not after nwn. not after bg1 (the whole Gromnir board persona got started as a way to poke fun of bg1 developers.) bg2 we were pretty pleased with, so not too many harsh criticisms... simply noted that the game were trying to be too mainstream in its appeal to everybody... inevitable mediocrity comes from going too far with such an approach.

our brand o' idiocy is a freelance kinda thing... and unbiased as such as we never know who is gonna be a target tomorrow. us freelancers go where the foolishness takes us... yours as much as ours.

btw, we actually reviewed most of the thread vd linked, and the only troikanaut/codexian that came out of the wash almost clean were spaz. he were honest... mostly. if vd honestly thinks he fared well in the spin cycle then he is as delusional 'bout the thread as he is 'bout codex bias.

HA! Good Fun!
 

Gromnir

Liturgist
Joined
Jan 11, 2004
Messages
394
"And by the by, it's probably you're lame-ass LARPing that got those threads locked as your opinions are so middle-of-the-road that I can't imagine anyone taking them seriously."

yeah, that must be it. 'cause posting like this has gotten so many threads at bio and ip and atari and elsewhere locked. is funny how only when we criticize the locals that our posting style seems to infuriate or become a problem.

...

you kids never fail to amuse... we give you that much.

HA! Good Fun!
 

franc kaos

Liturgist
Joined
Aug 4, 2005
Messages
298
Location
On the outside ~ looking in...
Graphics look like they're still being optimized. The rig they set me up on was a powerhouse--a Dell 3.4GHz packed with an ATI X1900 512MB card. The video settings were set at a modest 1280x768 and anti-aliasing was turned off. There were some occasional stutters, and I could (albeit on rare occasions) see some stitching lines between textures. Performance seemed pretty similar for this machine as it was for the Xbox 360s running Oblivion on the other side of the room.
Ouch! Bethesda really need to release at least a tech (rolling) demo of this for the PC (kind'a like X3 did), because their stated PC requirements sound like bullshit.
 

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