Volourn's Jade Empire Chapter 1 Impressions aka Fanboy Alert

[Draikin]

sometimes i regret playing NG, i just cant enjoy playing inferior products like GoW or DMC3 anymore.
Anyway, it's not a coincidence if RPGs made their 2D->3D transition 5 years after other genres, it's silly to expect NG-graphics quality for a RPG. I actually think JE looks better than Fable, and Bioware is making some progress in the 3D area since NWN (can only get better after that i admit).

I enjoyed Jade Empire, it was breath of fresh air. There is still a lot of room for improvement.
- make the sequel longer.
- Give our allies a real AI and some real power.
- more chalenging combats, i died less than 10 times in the entire game
- there's only 4 combats styles, others are just cosmetic changes.
- dialogs: more branchs, more complex quests. I don't care about what each NPC think of the state of the jade empire, the history of the empire or the imperial family ...

 

[Volourn]

"make the sequel longer."

Longer games are always good. that said, I'm still in ch3 and I've played for 21 hours...


"Give our allies a real AI and some real power."

Agreed. The AI for the npcs aren't bad; but it's way too passive. theys epnd their time too much just figthing one on one then watching you do the work. They need more power.
"more chalenging combats, i died less than 10 times in the entire game "

Meh. You are a god then as I find JE to be mor challenging than 99.9% of other games including most of BG's previous offerings (except possibly the BG series). btw, Death shouldn't be the only determining factor in terms fo challenge.


"there's only 4 combats styles, others are just cosmetic changes."

Huh? There are 4 physical, and 4 melee wepaons as wella s the other styles and there is a small yet important difference for each of them...


"- dialogs: more branchs, more complex quests. I don't care about what each NPC think of the state of the jade empire, the history of the empire or the imperial family ..."

Mor ebranches and complexes are good. But, quite frankly, I haven't seen such 'complex' quests since FO2 and BG2. And, the dialogue is betetr than pretty much every game but the FO series and maybe PST...


My BIGGEST beefs along with the npc improvement is FIX THE LOAD TIMES, freedom of movement, and either make the combat zones bigger or just allow you to run if you so desire...

 

[Draikin]

Longer games are always good. that said, I'm still in ch3 and I've played for 21 hours...

Chapters 5+6+7 are shorter than Chapter3. It's one of those great short games of this generation like Prince of Persia SoT or Beyond Good&Evil.

Meh. You are a god then as I find JE to be mor challenging than 99.9% of other games including most of BG's previous offerings (except possibly the BG series). btw, Death shouldn't be the only determining factor in terms fo challenge.

Maybe you aren't used to gamepads/action games yet. I liked the fights against powerful ennemies, the arena was great (night and day compared to the one in Fable). It was a lot more involving than the combats in KotOR.

there is a small yet important difference for each of them

well i didn't notice them.

My BIGGEST beefs along with the npc improvement is FIX THE LOAD TIMES

load times are shorter than in KotOR/Fable, at least playing from the HD. I think using the UE3 engine and having 512MB of ram will help them for the sequel.

 

[Volourn]

"Chapters 5+6+7 are shorter than Chapter3. It's one of those great short games of this generation like Prince of Persia SoT or Beyond Good&Evil."

Yeah, I've been hearing that the late chapters are much shorter. That's gonna annoy me I know already.IIRC, games like POP are like 10-20 hours max. JE is still gonna be likely longer than them.


"the arena was great (night and day compared to the one in Fable). It was a lot more involving than the combats in KotOR."

Can't comapre the Arena to Fable's; but it crushes KOTOR's. First off, outside of the 'qualfying round'; every round has at least 1,or 2 challenging battles. I'm still working on the Gold Champion. I've taken abreka form him to do other stuff to get stronger as I tried him 3 times and he beat me up. Talkes rrigign forever; but he does. LOL I breezed through KOTOR's 'arean'.

On top of that, the Arena's role-playing is top notch. So much to do. Heck, I think I spent as much time on the Arena then I did in chapter 1. LOL

 

[MarFish]

Soul Calibur looks better on the Gamecube too, but that's the benefit of having only two objects on the screen. Seriously, to compare a game like Jade Empire against God of War is like comparing Fallout to Wing Commander. Texture memory, right? About Fable - from what I hear the levels in Fable are significantly smaller than in Jade Empire, I didn't play it so I can't confirm whether or not it's true.

I have no idea what you're talking about, as you didn't finish your thought. What about texture memory? Xbox has 16 times more than PS2, so there is no excuse for the framerate issues and bland graphics, considering we're on what, the third game with the engine? GoW smokes JE in visuals...by a magnitude. How is this like comparing FO to WC?

Fables areas are smaller, but again, I'd rather have smaller areas of significant detail than sprawling landmasses with nary a detail or things to interact with.

The Xbox has no dedicated texture memory at all.

Is it so hard to understand? Small areas suck, since you have to go through area transitions even more often, ripping you out of the game with their loadscreens, no matter how well they are done. Games like God of War boast awesome graphics, but they don't have the expansive and detailed worlds of an RPG. I prefer the latter and I think it makes no sense to compare RPG graphics against Beat-em-ups. From what I read above Fable's areas are smaller and the load times are even longer - no thanks to that.

Anyway, back to Jade Empire ... have to visit an Emperor.

 

[EvoG]

Four things, chief :

First off, Xbox's UMA, despite latency limitations offers more video memory for the GPU then the 4 megs dedictated to the PS2. If you chose to continue to dispute this, look at ANY Xbox game that offers superior graphics to JE, which are quite a few in number. Being an RPG, with large-ish(you said large, I didn't) but EMPTY worlds doesn't immediately forgive its lack of art production. If the so called limitation were any more significant, we wouldn't see Xbox as the superior platform it is to PS2.

Second, I never mentioned texture quality at all, so this makes your point, and my first comment here irrelevent. Oh, and Doom3 and Half Life 2 coming to Xbox with high fidelity invalidates your comment about any limitation Xbox has.

Third, God of War's areas are quite large and the load times are rare and instantaneous. Perhaps play it before assuming?

Fourth, and most importantly, you are a rude asshole, incapable of rational, civil discussion. This little comment

Is it so hard to understand?

when considering you never made this point in your FIRST post, shows me you have no understanding of linear cognisant thought.

Assume for a second you knew what you were talking about and were right...

...HOW would I have an opportunity to indeed "understand" your brilliance if you didn't explicitly define what it is you wanted me to understand in your initial post? All you said was "texture memory, right?"

"What about texture memory, genius?" I thought, so I asked you, but get a smartass reply. Am I supposed to be able read your mind?

Mentioning it for the first time in your second reply to me doesn't mean I immediately fail to understand your overwhelming and massive well of knowledge. Perhaps if you DID mention it and THEN I replied with a quizzical look on my face, you can question my ability to understand, but any time before that, and you're being a snide prick.


Oh, and btw, in case you didn't understand any of this, perhaps what I said is a little to difficult for you, eh?

 

[MarFish]

I have yet to see a largely empty area in Jade Empire, maybe after chapter 4? Perhaps. The only area that was somewhat empty for it's size was Tien's Landing, and based on the story that made perfectly sense, since the town was portrayed as dying. The Imperial city is overwhelming with NPCs.

In the end all you are trying to do is fuzzing up a few technicalities to support your idea of make a game that looks like the best looking fighting game out there, but make it an RPG, but without load times. You obviously have no clue what the difference between an RPG and a fighting game is.

Maybe offer your insight on which RGPs games out there would actually deliver what you want. Picking a few recent ones:

- KotOR2 - smaller less interesting areas with boring wall tile textures, longer loadtimes, horrible animations.

- Vampire - Areas of equal Size, similar loadtimes, individually moving boobs. Horrible combat system, shitty textures in many places.

Doom and HL2 coming to the Xbox... Hl2 isn't out so nobody can comment on that, but Doom 3 on the Xbox - another game with 3 characters on screen at the same time pulling you through corridors so dark that you can't even tell whether or not they use textures at all. Why are you again calling on the most advanced looking games of another genre to rumble on that you want an RPG to look like that. It hasn't been done yet, at least not with a good RPG that doesn't neglect all it's other features. Maybe TES4 - but that's next generation.

Obviously you can't have everything in a game, but so far I'd say that Jade Empire is much better graphically than any other game with a similar feature set so far - Vampire could have beat it if it had gotten another 6 month of polish to make full use of the PCs capabilities.

Finall, and I don't think that's appreciated enough JE has been a very polished game experience so far. No annoying scripting bugs, no glaring story holes, no NPCs refering to locations cut from the game. After my recent KotOR 2 and Vampire experiences, I am very happy about this. It seems that everything can be said about Microsoft, but they seem to understand how important it is for RPGs to get proper polish (or maybe Bioware forced them, can't tell).

Back to ... getting a virtual life again.

 

[Sarvis]

Another PS2 fanboy. Meh.

Saying XBox is a superior platform means he's a PS2 fanboy?

 

[EvoG]

Apparently english isn't his first language Sarvis, as I have no idea what he just said, so on that note I think I'm done with this line of discussion. EDIT: Oh, and he keeps editing his post so...


Now, so far, JE is fun to 'play', as the fights are statisfying, but on the whole the entire world is amazingly non-interactive. The dialogue couldn't BE any more simple minded. Its clearly designed for the 'common' player, and has absolutely zero depth.

I'm just now in the Imperial City, trying to sap every ounce of gameplay there is, and while I'm cleary absorbed by the game, it still disappoints here and there. Its similar to my acceptance of Fable after the first few hours...I know what to expect and dont expect more beyond that, so it works out in the end.

Oh, and for the record, I'm a "videogame fanboy". Any game, any system, console or PC, I play them all. I consider myself the most open minded and accepting gamer there is, as I live, work and breath the industry. While I'm jaded when it comes to derivations and licenses, when a game is great its great, period, regardless of genre, platform or developer.

Cheers

 

[Volourn]

JE looks awesome. Anyone who thinks otherwise is just plain old fashioned blind. Or stupid. Heck, likely both.


"The dialogue couldn't BE any more simple minded. Its clearly designed for the 'common' player, and has absolutely zero depth."

That's just stupid. Go back and play games with so called deep dialogue like the overrated KOTOR series. What a tool.

 

[MarFish]

Apparently english isn't his first language Sarvis, as I have no idea what he just said, so on that note I think I'm done with this line of discussion.

Wow, he's pulling a Rosh.

The dialogue couldn't BE any more simple minded. Its clearly designed for the 'common' player, and has absolutely zero depth."

You must have played another game.

Just take pretty much everything with Gao. It's far from KotOR's black or white. Especially after chapter 4 it's so apparent that he actually had a point against you, but the player is too close minded to see it at that point. Brilliant construct.

Or the orphanage plot. No more light sight / dark side bullshit, no more knee jerk replies.

 

[NeutralMilkHotel]

Apparently english isn't his first language Sarvis, as I have no idea what he just said, so on that note I think I'm done with this line of discussion.

Wow, he's pulling a Rosh.

No... not even close. But I'll agree with him, you have no idea what you're talking about.

 

[EvoG]

JE looks awesome. Anyone who thinks otherwise is just plain old fashioned blind. Or stupid. Heck, likely both.


"The dialogue couldn't BE any more simple minded. Its clearly designed for the 'common' player, and has absolutely zero depth."

That's just stupid. Go back and play games with so called deep dialogue like the overrated KOTOR series. What a tool.

Err, you can hit the A button through the entire game if you want to chose the 'good' path. So far every 'conversational puzzle' can be solved in 2 - 4 trees, all by choosing the good path again, if thats where you're headed.

Either way, what part of "I like the game" in every post here do you not grasp? Your constant attempts to provoke me though ARE very amusing, so carry on. :wink:

 

[MarFish]

Apparently english isn't his first language Sarvis, as I have no idea what he just said, so on that note I think I'm done with this line of discussion.

Wow, he's pulling a Rosh.

No... not even close. But I'll agree with him, you have no idea what you're talking about.

He said he has no idea what I am talking about. But that's ok, at least he tried - unlike you. Just another mindless peon in the crowd.

 

[Volourn]

"Err, you can hit the A button through the entire game if you want to chose the 'good' path. So far everyone 'conversational puzzle' can be solved in 2 - 4 trees, all by choosing the good path again, if thats where you're headed."

LOL No. It's obviously you haveb't played the game. Not to mention that Clsoed Fist is not always neccessarily eveil. youa r ebetter off with simple midned games like the KOTOR series.

MarFish just shared two prime examples where it's not all black and white. And, the game is littered with them. But, hey, if you wanna crap from your hands as you type; don't let me stop ya.


"Either way, what part of "I like the game" in every post here do you not grasp?"

I can say I like MW. that doens't make it so. You don't care for the story, graphics, combat, or dialogue yet you claim to like the game? WTH? Who are ya tryin't o fool? It's okay to dislike a game; but at leats be honest about it.

As much as I like the combat; the dialogue is the best aprt of the game. Certainly better than eveyr previous BIO games. Not to mention every other game. Only the FOs and maybe PST would beat it when it comes to quality dialogue. Maybe the Ultimas too if I could actually remmeber way back when...

P.S. The fact you think you press the A button during dialogue to be Open Palm is ludicrous consideirng that's all you do to be 'good' when doing dialogue in the other games. Would it be better if they got you to alternate between a and b during dialogue? LOL

 

[EvoG]

*sigh*

Hence my assertion that you like to 'play' with me to provoke, which I find flattering...if you read what I wrote, you'd know that I do indeed love the combat and that is where I felt Bioware has placed its attentions. Story is compelling which is why I separated specifcally, dialogue from story.

I'm full open palm right now(give or take a notch here, I'm at the top) and I've more or less always selected the first response in every conversation, and that only requires I press A, rather than move the little analog stick down to other choices. :wink:

Just finished the Black Leopard School myself, and am about to go back to the arena for the bronze fights, and so far, talking to Master Radiant, and then to Master Smiling Hawk, I only need select the first dialogue choices, to initiate the 'good path' for the end of that little segment.

Perhaps, like your friend here, you should bone up on your knowledge of what you talk about before trying to lay seige to me, eh? Then again, you wouldn't have any ammunition for you little sophomoric game with me, and I dare not take that away from you! :D

Cheers

 

[NeutralMilkHotel]

Apparently english isn't his first language Sarvis, as I have no idea what he just said, so on that note I think I'm done with this line of discussion.

Wow, he's pulling a Rosh.

No... not even close. But I'll agree with him, you have no idea what you're talking about.

He said he has no idea what I am talking about. But that's ok, at least he tried - unlike you. Just another mindless peon in the crowd.

He's already explained to you in detail why you don't know what you're talking about regarding X-box technology perfectly (except your incoherent gibberish), should I explain it to you again? You need me to draw you a picture in paint? Scan a crayon filled paper explaining it? No, sorry.

As for your asinine comment comparing Evog to rosh (which in itself is an insult), Evog has been civil this whole time, you're the one who has added the attitude, to say he is pulling a rosh is the epitome of ignorance on this subject as well.

 

[MarFish]

Ahh, the good old I don't understand you excuse. We get that at least twice a week when busting some sorry idiot's ass for drugs, which causes them to lose their ability to understand english instantly. Needless to say that this doesn't work very often.

Saying a game's dialog isn't deep because you have quabbles with how they ordered their dialog - well, your fault.

 

[Volourn]

"I'm full open palm right now(give or take a notch here, I'm at the top) and I've more or less always selected the first response in every conversation, and that only requires I press A, rather than move the little analog stick down to other choices."

Weird. As often as not; the first option i see in dialogue is "Die!" (or the equivelant). Not exactly Open Palm...