1eyedking VTMB Unofficial Patch Butthurt Thread

[Clockwork Knight]

Tessera pls go, you're not fooling anyone

 

[ERYFKRAD]

So tessera is the crazy one? Never could remember that right.

 

[Lujo]

Why? Because these things have rules, and you seem to freak out at the idea that they do.

Uh, computer games are supposed to have fixed design rules? You know why I loved Bloodlines so much in the first place? Because it broke with a lot of the usual game rules, like there would be a bad ass final boss coming out of the sarcophagus for example! I laughted out loud when I first played the loner ending.

It's not computer games, but just about anything that tells a damned story. You can play it straight or subvert it, but it all revolves around the same things. If bloodlines broke the rules for you, you've been playing some boring ass games, or haven't watched enough movies. Yeah, that ending was cool, but that's just a cutscene.

It's a brilliant moment, and if anything, the dialogue options cheapen it.

Yes, but still Troika added plenty because Bloodlines is about choices!

So why did you remove all the concequences of MAKING choices? I'm not sure you understand what that word means, really, and this isn't a joke or an insult or anything like that (there's a bunch of jabs below though), because you seem to have systematically went through the game removing any semblance of meaningful choice you could find, and you seem to have done this from rather early on. And I know for a fact that you can quite deeply misunderstand words and concepts from just before.

Having 4 dialogue options which all do the same thing ins't "choice", that just lessens the impact of which character you play or which social skills you build because everyone gets to go through whatever was supposed to be the challenge.

But your brilliant pro-choice track record, or rather a short illustrative sample of it:

Like sleeping with Jenette. Without your "plus" patch, the player had a choice - they could choose to sleep with Jenette and that had impact on what happened, or they could choose not to sleep with Jenette, and that had impact on what happened. Along came you and now you get so sleep with Jenette and it has no concequence because you also get to get everything that was supposed to be your reward for appreciation Therese and her no-nonsense bussiness style (and, like, keeping it in your pants).

Yes, I do believe you could come up with many explanations for why you did this - but all of them mean that you never understood how that whole thing was meant to work. There was a choice - you did something - and now there isn't.

Or take Romero - there was choice, you could shoot zombies, which was the more difficult thing, so it had a bigger award, or you could fetch him a date which was easier for a lesser reward and you could even sleep with him. Now? You can do everything. Where's the choice? Choice of what to do first? This playthrough I'll shoot first then sleep with him, on another playthrough I'll sleep with him first then shoot? What brilliant explanation is even there for this quest?

Or Lilly. Once upon a time you could choose to be good, despite the fact it had concequences. But the wesp to the rescue! Now you're dumb if you aren't good, because you get extra XP from the BAD guy for it.

The only thing that's missing is that you find a way to do both the Venus and Boris quests somehow. But I bet you will.

But there's another form of choice - choice of where to put your points to mix it up during the walkthrough and not have a ready solution for every possible challenge. Let's tack on one or two XP on everything the player ever does, because f**k choice, right?

Do you ever get tempted to give the Nosferatu appearance points? I mean, Troika was all about choice, and it's pretty illogical that Nosferatu can't have a choice of putting points into appearance, right?

And don't get me wrong, I don't even mind that you did it - I just can't believe the way you're presenting it! Wesp, Werner, that's your name, isn't it? Maybe it isn't, for some reason I thought it was, anyway - just say it for fuck sake. Just say it: "I don't know what I'm doing, I'm a huge nerd who just give people what they ask and I really shouldn't be doing it but I want to and that's all there is to it!" I won't do anything, I don't mind anything, but I'll be at peace.

And what's wrong with my advice?

It's very subjective, but told as if it was objective! You dislike some things, other people dislike other things. As the earlier suggestion here already showed, I would need about a few dozend installation options to satisfy everyone and that just can't be done!

Every other sentence from you is absurdly subjective, but told as if was objective. If I took you to a bloody lecture at the university and you herd exact same stuff from professors your head would explode because "How can that be! I thought what I believed was objective! I'm pro-choice so I removed all the concequences and now everyone can make every choice! AAaahah!"

I would advise you, as I would advise anyone, to revert the Wireless Camera and Gary quest stuff, because it would do wonders for the compatibility, updating if you ever need and general stability as the gain from those additions isn't comparable to how much has to be messed with.

This recomendation once again discredits any others of yours, because you don't understand how the game works and how your version of it got messed up! Maybe I should cut the whole Skyeline Apartement from the game because it can still cause the infamous models-all-over-the-place-bug?

No, because that one wasn't your doing? You basically added 2 fetch quests, which are auto-completed just by doing things you have to do anyway, and 1 XP but worked over so many things that it simply doesn't make sense? And then you even claimed that you couldn't have possibly affected Mitnick, and I figured exactly how you did affect that and I didn't even have to look at the code. It's about the risk. I mean, again, sure, do it, go right ahead, but if someone asked me is that wise - how could I say it is?

I am not metagaming because I personally don't get any "unfair advantage".

I wasn't aware of the "unfair advantage" definition. In the German LARP community for example, "meta-gaming" does not need this.

This may come as a shock, but the word has meaning outside of the German LARP community, and it's somewhat safe to assume that more people will be familiar with the actual meaning rather than the highly specific idiomatic one. You can't meta-game towards a solution intended by the developers, anyway. Your pro-choice-anti-concequence friend was metagaming.

My suggestion doesn't skip an iconic introductory named boss, doesn't get me XP for getting my blood bank back, makes sense.

Your suggestion is not at all different from the ones Troika already included by just talking Vandal back into selling blood.

- It doens't involve having a specific skill check,
- It involves sticking around contemplating the nature and concequence of actually choosing to be good before you get off the hook by the main quest allowing you to get it done
- It involves minor thinking and talking to somebody other than Vandal
- It's not obvious and sleazy metagaming with nonsensical justifications. Therese IS his boss, you get good with her, she'd tell him to stop messing with you.

So yeah, it's a lot more like what Troika would have done than what your "Everyone who supports wesp because he implemented a really dumb idea i talked him into ROCKS" excellent friend had in mind.

EDIT: I'm not asking you to do it or anything. I'm just illustrating what an actually harmless and and somewhat sensible solution would actually look like.

 

[HansDampf]

I like how Wesp doesn't throw a temper tantrum over this idiot. Not your typical modder.

I've noticed, no matter where you look on the internet or what gaming forum you visit, if there is a thread about Bloodlines or the UP, you'll always find Wesp there responding to feedback, helping new players, and dealing with obnoxious faggots in the friendliest manner.

 

[makiavelli747]

Or take Romero - there was choice, you could shoot zombies, which was the more difficult thing, so it had a bigger award, or you could fetch him a date which was easier for a lesser reward and you could even sleep with him. Now? You can do everything. Where's the choice? Choice of what to do first? This playthrough I'll shoot first then sleep with him, on another playthrough I'll sleep with him first then shoot? What brilliant explanation is even there for this quest?

Now you can sleep with him first, then bring him a hooker, pump your stats more and then shoot zombies
win-win style!

 

[Lujo]

Or take Romero - there was choice, you could shoot zombies, which was the more difficult thing, so it had a bigger award, or you could fetch him a date which was easier for a lesser reward and you could even sleep with him. Now? You can do everything. Where's the choice? Choice of what to do first? This playthrough I'll shoot first then sleep with him, on another playthrough I'll sleep with him first then shoot? What brilliant explanation is even there for this quest?

Now you can sleep with him first, then bring him a hooker, pump your stats more and then shoot zombies
win-win style!

The question is - what is your choice of choice?

Eh?

Wait, don't tell me you can't sleep with him if you're a guy. Pimping is one thing, but choice is still choice!

EDIT: Although now I wonder how the "pro-choice" crowd would react to actually having that choice? Too much choice?

Would that then make Wesp one of the aforementioned

obnoxious faggots

?

 

[makiavelli747]

my choice is to become champion of cyrodiil

 

[Wesp5]

So why did you remove all the concequences of MAKING choices?

What consequences? What choices? You could send Danielle to Vandal, no other choices except not doing the quest at all. And of course without any consequences too, because of talking to him about selling blood. I added two more choices, nothing more, you only dislike one of them as it doesn't fit your story-cliche-rules, like a victim is a victim and a predator must be killed in an open fight and not be trapped.

Like sleeping with Jenette. Without your "plus" patch, the player had a choice - they could choose to sleep with Jenette and that had impact on what happened, or they could choose not to sleep with Jenette, and that had impact on what happened.

Sleeping with Jeanette never had any impact on anything, it is just for fun and I didn't change anything about that.

This playthrough I'll shoot first then sleep with him, on another playthrough I'll sleep with him first then shoot? What brilliant explanation is even there for this quest?

The main reason was that Romero was supposed to be available after his quest which was somehow disabled. He even had unused dialogue which I restored! Only you couldn't ever do anything with him afterwards, which I found weird. Combine that with the fact that most people couldn't do his zombie quest at the time you meet him first because it was much too hard, offering it later to have success with better stats seemed a logical choice. As you weren't able to pull it off yourself, maybe you'll do it yourself just for fun. I bet very few people ever do, but if you really wanted, you'd have the choice now!

So yeah, it's a lot more like what Troika would have done than what your "Everyone who supports wesp because he implemented a really dumb idea i talked him into ROCKS" excellent friend had in mind.

Yeah, let's look at some of the things Troika did, like the famous beach house. You can go in there fighting, sneaking or talking. You can switch between these choices in the middle of the map, no problem. Then look at Gimble and Vandal. One way and one way only except for not doing the quests at all. No choices whatsoever! Much of the late game is the same, starting with Chinatown. Only one way through it all, most of it fighting. Someone here already asked me for more choices there! I can easily imagine Troika starting with the quests with the choices, like the beachhouse or the Gargoyle which were shown very early in videos. Then later under time and money pressure they added linear fighting quests like Gimble on top...

Oh, and how about the compromise I suggested? You didn't even acknowledge it because it took your main argument of meta-gaming, oops, power-gaming for me, and threw it out of the window.

 

[Wesp5]

Now you can sleep with him first, then bring him a hooker, pump your stats more and then shoot zombies

Yes, you could. But you won't get additonal XP by this and no stats updates either, once one version of the quest is done!

 

[Delterius]

I like how Wesp doesn't throw a temper tantrum over this idiot. Not your typical modder.

Not very surprising. Wesp survived Tessera after all. The chefe of the World of Warcraft forums. Community Managers who patrolled that place went insane because of Tessera's very own chefe routine. I wouldn't be surprised if 90% of the True Patch's fans were Tessera all along, or that this recent influx of avatar-less Codex posters are Tessera as well.

Somewhere out there, Tessera is modding nudity into chefe's harebrained rabbit CRPG.

 

[Lockkaliber]

Wesp5 Thanks for the good work you put into the game mate.

 

[makiavelli747]

but wasn't sleeping with J preventing you from getting the "optimal" result for this questline?

Yes, in vanilla to sleep with Jeanette you have to kill Therese. But now we have this new awesome option to do both.

 

[Lujo]

What consequences? What choices?

That quest is structured like this:

You do the Lily Quest and free Lily. You did something good.
Vandal comes in and tells you - "No, in this game this doesn't work that way".
He then tells you to replace her if you want blood.
You can use disciplines on him (only two possible vampires orignally), pay him cash (that's the tradeoff for being good) or bring him another woman (that's the other possible tradeoff). - Originally that was it, I believe.

And you're not supposed to get any other choices. It also made sense - Ventrue are the lordly types, they can get away with it, Malkavians are the crazy ones he's a Malkavian ghoul, others have to pay him OR get him another woman. You're not supposed to have any more choice there, you're not supposed to "get clever", it's how that quest works and it's perfectly fine. No XP for any of it - you got the XP already for freeing Lily and potentially plenty of it.

Story-cliche-rules

Those are not MY story-cliche-rules. That can only be said by someone who's basically illiterate. The position you are currently in is basically the position of a designer. BUT you would never, in a million years, be allowed to be a designer after having said that. Because VtmB is a much beloved game, but most of it's appeal comes from being basically ALL made with those "rules". It just hit's the pop-culture spots and has nice elementary design that somewhat clearly telegraphs or misdirects or times stuff that's meat to be recognized by the player. If you can say that you could not have come up with VtmB, but people who did come up with it wouldn't and obviously DIDN'T say that.

You got into it because someone handed you a patch and you have some ability to code, AFAIK. And you seem to be a relatively simple minded guy, easy to identify with for the average net denizen who's easily impressed by anyone who looks like they can code, so they hold you in high regard. And in situations when someone does what I do, they'll naturally support the less threatening looking and less arrogant looking guy. That and basically low expectations and familiarity is why you're getting backup, but you don't actually deserve all that much of it.

Simply because you got to be where you are by accident. If there was, like, a project for making VtmB 2 , and you applied for designer and the person interviewing you did't fall for you fame - you would not be able to pass the interview. Simply, if they asked you the necessary questions and you gave answers like you are giving me, you would absolutely be out of the question to be anywhere near the position where these decisions are made. I've seen some of your maps, you've got big issues there too. Coding I can't tell, you might get that. If I was tasked to take over job interviews that day, I could not let you pass even if I wanted to, because to you rules which were used to make the game are "story cliche rules" and basic stuff wouldn't make sense to you. It doesn't now.

So I can't argue with you - you're in a position where you should likely not have been, you've suffered no concequences (if it was a paid job, for example, you would have probably lost it pretty soon, or be transferrrd to another position), people who are your current "employers" are fine with slapping you on the back whatever you do simply because you're... slower I suppose than most modders they meet. You're doing fine, you don't have any reason to believe you're actually that ignorant.

The only problem is that your patch is stuck on a game I paid for, and I decided, for some reason I don't even remember anymore, that I don't want to pay for a copy that hasn't got your patch stuck on it.

like a victim is a victim and a predator must be killed in an open fight and not be trapped.

A boss fight is a boss fight, and elegant design is elegant design and obvious powergaming is obvious powergaming. Patty is by the book. The director guy is by the book. Gimble is NOT by the book, and any art director and project manager worth a damn would be very clear on this, and probably in disbelief that you would even suggest it. It's actively bad design that can't possibly work without metagaming.

You're your own boss I can only tell you that it is objectively stupid and lowers the queslity of the product. But what do you care?

Sleeping with Jeanette never had any impact on anything, it is just for fun and I didn't change anything about that.

The gamefaq's guide states that:

"When you'll first enter the Asylum you'll meet Jeanette, a very sleazy and very
insane babe. If you want to get her to bed, you'll need to have Seduction of 3
and 1 blood point, say seductive lines whenever you have them and always be
nice to her. When she later asks you for a certain gift, you must give it to
her (even though it fails a quest) and in her dispute with Therese you must
choose her. From then on every time you go to her, you can experience again
forgotten, human pleasures... [+: This can be done once earlier with a
Seduction of 4.]"

With the [+: section being the plus patch. This is also how I remember it, and I also seem to remember seeing some old thread where you said that you "allowed it". I could be misremembering, but this is completely in line with your stuff. And this is very easy to get slaps on the back for because all the little powergamers want the most XP so they never sleep with jeanette and you gave them whats basically a console cheat. But originally there's a choice - you give her the locket, she sleeps with you.

EDIT: Funny how everybody wants to sleep with her but noone wants to give up XP for it. And then you come along wit the ultimate in terrible parenting and let them have it all becuase you get a choice, and you get a choice and you get a choice! :D

The main reason was that Romero was supposed to be available after his quest which was somehow disabled. He even had unused dialogue which I restored! Only you couldn't ever do anything with him afterwards, which I found weird. Combine that with the fact that most people couldn't do his zombie quest at the time you meet him first because it was much too hard, offering it later to have success with better stats seemed a logical choice. As you weren't able to pull it off yourself, maybe you'll do it yourself just for fun. I bet very few people ever do, but if you really wanted, you'd have the choice now!

Well, I don't remember this quest not working for me ever before, which makes your restoring the dialogue, if that's what screwed it up, might not be worth doing.

This quest is meant to be a Toreador quest, with everybody else pimping or sleeping with him - or coming around with a flamer which easily kills the zombies when they're bunched up. It also makes sense - Isaac's ghoul does it genrally and Isaac's a Toreador, and it's in Hollywood. Celerity sharpshooter quest. It's based less on Romero's movies and directly on Dellamore Dellamorte (literally) and on Dlyan Dog comic book (indirectly because Dellamore Dellamorte is a no-brand adaptation).

Eh, fucking shame, it's not good to allow all things on every playthrough. The game has a bunch of clans for a reason, I'm kinda certain you weren't meant to be able to do everything with everybody all the time. Even the multiple choice huge fights in the end are somewhat optional.

Good call, I suppose, slavage what can be salvaged, but there's plenty of chance you arsed it up to begin with... IDK, don't want you to think I'm blindly pissed of at you for no reason.

Yeah, let's look at some of the things Troika did, like the famous beach house. You can go in there fighting, sneaking or talking. You can switch between these choices in the middle of the map, no problem. Then look at Gimble and Vandal. One way and one way only except for not doing the quests at all. No choices whatsoever! Much of the late game is the same, starting with Chinatown. Only one way through it all, most of it fighting. Someone here already asked me for more choices there! I can easily imagine Troika starting with the quests with the choices, like the beachhouse or the Gargoyle which were shown very early in videos. Then later under time and money pressure they added linear fighting quests like Gimble on top...

I'm the one claiming this is a rather strictly ordered game which is a large part of its charm and you're trying to cram square pegs into round holes. And there actually were plenty of folks who were annoyed at you for cramming your ideas into patches. I'm currently annoyed with you because I don't want to manually dig through the game I bought to see what you're sneaking into the game in the "basic" patch. Maybe nothing, but I just can't be sure with stuff I see you saying!

Chinatown simply didn't get it's main quest made. A bunch of sidequests ended up as the main quest it's very obvious, and if you wanted interactivity you'd need a main quest. And you can't do it because of voice acting. I could cook you up a by the book one and make some racist asiatic dialogue sound files, but I wouldn't want it bundled with shoddy bits of the current plus patch. Not that you'd work with or listen to me, ofc.

Anyway, this game is a very simple game - very simple. Barely bare bones, honestly, with lots of filler sneaking.

Oh, and how about the compromise I suggested? You didn't even acknowledge it because it took your main argument of meta-gaming, oops, power-gaming for me, and threw it out of the window.

Eh, as far as compromises go, it's fair, but it's still a ridiculous suggestion. It's literally only in there so some cretin can do something that he should really be told to use the console for but can't get it done via console and possibly wants to feel really good about misunderstanding the point of the Vandal portion of the Lily quest (that being good is supposed to have some concequence otherwise it's powergaming etc). Fuck it, I see that you're the community darling wherever you go and you thrive on giving jerks what they want - I would've told my own father to stuff it if he rose out of the grave and tried to bum something that wrong off me.

The stupid thins is that I went to replay Bloodlins to refresh my memeory of effective barebones quest design and what you would call cliche-bits that people remember forever, but the damn thing has a dated engine and voiceovers simply box you in. And now you got me feeling sorry for you in a sense that I KNOW what's bothering you. It's all sparse and railroady and if you didn't have to actually run from one place to another you could do all the talky quests with your eyes closed in less than 5 minutes... And there's not even propery mysteries or anything and everything is just finding one single bit of info per location...

The stupid thing is that I could help you, I've modded stuff before but even if I didn't fuck you up and down the cussway and annoyed the hell out of you, and if I wasn't annoyed as hell with you, I HATE workign with coders and gamers except if I got a stack of money to hit them over the head with every time they try to get too smart and self-respecting.... It's a fucking nightmare! There's guys who put 56 damage on crossbows you get in starting areas because reasons, and give startign shorguns late game damage because calibre and all sorts of bulshit sane people just don't put you through :D

----

Here's a tricky one, since you'll listen to nothing I say anyway - the Society of Leopold is beyond ghastly, it's buggy, rushed and ill concieved map with only ash and the boss fight somewhat entertaining and everything else a boring as ass slog. I noticed this on the playthrough. I killed everyone with sneak kills, because Obfuscate, but it would've been boring even if it was challenging, if you can understand me. There's a stupidly long cascade of fights in the endgame, I'd love a way to simply skip this one or something.

 

[Tick Tock Crocodile]

I've noticed, no matter where you look on the internet or what gaming forum you visit, if there is a thread about Bloodlines or the UP, you'll always find Wesp there responding to feedback, helping new players, and dealing with obnoxious faggots in the friendliest manner.

These past few pages have been giving me vivid flashbacks to the damageable werewolf fiasco, amongst other things.

Maybe I'm mistaken as it's been a long long time since I last played this game unpatched, but wasn't sleeping with J preventing you from getting the "optimal" result for this questline? I found that to be a good troll from Troika (much like the Kuei-Jin ending) since you lost some XP and only got a black screen for your efforts just because you couldn't keep it in your pants and wanted to see some pixels fucking.

I had thought this too--I seem to remember that in vanilla you could only sleep with Jeanette after making the choice to save her, missing out on the extra exp from the Tourette option, but the plus patch changed it so that you could sleep with her before you had to choose between the sisters. If that was the case then sleeping with her in and of itself wouldn't have affected anything, but there would have been opportunity cost stats-wise because of the exp you'd miss out on. I haven't played without the patch in a long time either, though, so I could well be wrong on this.


Wesp5 I have to say thanks to you while you're here, too. VtMB's been my main love for what's going on six years now, and I really appreciate everything you put into this.

 

[makiavelli747]

You can use disciplines on him (only two possible vampires orignally), pay him cash (that's the tradeoff for being good) or bring him another woman (that's the other possible tradeoff). - Originally that was it, I believe.

In vanilla you could also intimidate him and (my fav option) tell him a story about most violent crime you did

 

[Lujo]

You can use disciplines on him (only two possible vampires orignally), pay him cash (that's the tradeoff for being good) or bring him another woman (that's the other possible tradeoff). - Originally that was it, I believe.

In vanilla you could also intimidate him and (my fav option) tell him a story about most violent crime you did

Oh, yeah, but the violent story took a low humanity. Was there persuade 4 too? Initimidate must've been nosferatu thing.

These past few pages have been giving me vivid flashbacks to the damageable werewolf fiasco, amongst other things.

I would just like to say that I have read the line in the gamefaq guide which say that some weapons can damage the werewolf. I have purposefully had the good grace to not bring it up, although I am curious about the incident

 

[makiavelli747]

Was there persuade 4 too?

Persuasion 3 & Humanity -8 to successfully tell a story,
but there is also some extra lines for humanity -5

 

[ghostdog]

I think Lujo's extensive sperging should be contained in a different gulag thread about specific Unofficial patch feedback, preferably in prosperland Codex Workshop. This thread isn't about this shit.

Infinitron ?

 

[Infinitron]

I think Lujo's extensive sperging should be contained in a different gulag thread about specific Unofficial patch feedback, preferably in prosperland Codex Workshop. This thread isn't about this shit.

Infinitron ?

>_> Where does the sperging begin?

 

[Wesp5]

You can use disciplines on him (only two possible vampires orignally), pay him cash (that's the tradeoff for being good) or bring him another woman (that's the other possible tradeoff). - Originally that was it, I believe.

As has already been stated, you could also Persuade 3 him, Intimitdate 4 him or tell him a story. Only Seduction would not work because he is already Therese's ghoul. All of this though meant no quest at all! Once you take his quest, one choice and one choice only. Like you already said, dozends of NPCs around, but you can only send this one single girl down. Why only her? Yeah, choices!

I've seen some of your maps, you've got big issues there too.

First, the only maps done completely myself were the Smoke Shop and the Coffee Shop and I confess that I used Troika maps as a base to start from. The library map was made by burgermeister from CQM fame and the Hallowbrook Atrium by EntenSchreck. I think you critizing the latter as "Something about the layout of the place was also wrong somehow, like it can't possibly reasonably be built like that." when it actually was build after the famous Bradbury Building shows that I wouldn't ask you for advice on level design ever !

If I was tasked to take over job interviews that day, I could not let you pass even if I wanted to, because to you rules which were used to make the game are "story cliche rules" and basic stuff wouldn't make sense to you.

You always boast being this big company kind of guy, so where do you work? What great games have you designed? What great books have you written or what movies directed? I would really like to know your credentials!

The only problem is that your patch is stuck on a game I paid for, and I decided, for some reason I don't even remember anymore, that I don't want to pay for a copy that hasn't got your patch stuck on it.

Just install the True Patch over it if you want. It's pretty much the same as my basic patch only with some hundreds of minor bug fixes missing! You only need the fixed dlls to run the game on modern Windows.

A boss fight is a boss fight, and elegant design is elegant design and obvious powergaming is obvious powergaming.

A boss fight is a boss fight, but still you can avoid the Serial Killer and Pisha and Bruno and probably others. On the other hand everybody loves that Bloodlines forces you through one boss fight after another during the endgame! Or was that the other way around?

Patty is by the book. The director guy is by the book. Gimble is NOT by the book...

Yeah, it must be great and refreshing to play a game where everything is exactly by the book. Very creative...

But originally there's a choice - you give her the locket, she sleeps with you.

No. You could still mess everything up in the final dialogue! Again you are looking at this from the meta-gaming angle: you see sleeping with Jeanette as a quest reward. Now look at it from inside the game! Have you checked out Jeanette's laptop? Would she not do it?

This quest is meant to be a Toreador quest...

Ah, this other theory of yours! It would have taken Troika about 5 seconds to make that quest Toreador exclusive, as with many other quests, but they didn't. What a shame that they didn't do what you would have thought would be the only correct way by the book!

I'm kinda certain you weren't meant to be able to do everything with everybody all the time

I wouldn't know, Troika did it that way. Did they handle this different in their other games?

Eh, as far as compromises go, it's fair, but it's still a ridiculous suggestion.

I'll take this as a yes then. Acleacius has no issues with it as it never was about power-gaming for him!

There's a stupidly long cascade of fights in the endgame, I'd love a way to simply skip this one or something.

This could only work by adding lines for Bach to hand Johansen over elsewhere and you would certainly call that pure power-gaming once it had been done! The same would be possible for the temple, meet Ming upstairs and convince her to give you the key...

 

[ghostdog]

>_> Where does the sperging begin?

I think it's here

 

[Wesp5]

I would just like to say that I have read the line in the gamefaq guide which say that some weapons can damage the werewolf. I have purposefully had the good grace to not bring it up, although I am curious about the incident

I can explain this to you: As with many of my other changes, like not having enemies spawn from thin air or weapons vanishing, this one was all about realism. I know that werewolfes are supposed to be much stronger than vampires, but Troika used an ugly hack so this werewolf is completely invincible in like it won't register any damage at all! Which a lot of people disliked, so I added some Python scripts that any weapon can do a little bit of damage to him. There is still no way at all to kill him this way without god mode and a huge amount of time, but people can actually try and see that it doesn't work!

 

[makiavelli747]

you could also Persuade 3 him, Intimitdate 4 him or tell him a story.

you can't just persuade him, you need persuasion 3 & humanity -8 to tell a story

 

[Wesp5]

you can't just persuade him, you need persuasion 3 & humanity -8 to tell a story

Not exactly, you need Persuasion 3 at first and then actually only Humanity -5 to get the best result.

 

[Clockwork Knight]

I think Lujo's extensive sperging should be contained in a different gulag thread about specific Unofficial patch feedback, preferably in prosperland Codex Workshop. This thread isn't about this shit.


Infinitron ?

>_> Where does the sperging begin?

Joined: Mar 13, 2014

I can see you're the community darling wherever you go

Tessera, maybe there's a reason for that? I think it's because he knows how to behave like a normal person (let's not pretend a modder can be normal) and doesn't write stupid sperglord shit such as

You got into it because someone handed you a patch and you have some ability to code, AFAIK. And you seem to be a relatively simple minded guy, easy to identify with for the average net denizen who's easily impressed by anyone who looks like they can code, so they hold you in high regard. And in situations when someone does what I do, they'll naturally support the less threatening looking and less arrogant looking guy. That and basically low expectations and familiarity is why you're getting backup, but you don't actually deserve all that much of it.