Warhammer Warhammer 40,000: Gladius - Relics of War - turn-based 4X from Slitherine

[whocares]

Good news for me is that's pretty much exactly how I figured it worked. I wasn't sure about per-model damage cap, but I had a suspicion that that was a thing. Which indirectly means that there are after all anti-tank unitz .

But what this breakdown also confirms is that with all the situational damage reduction bonuses, it's really not feasible to know at a glance how much damage something will do. Without being a math savant you just have to trust the previews. And that's clumsy and at least for me prone to causing misclicks. And a big one - the preview doesn't help for active skills like nades that you can't even activate without standing adjacent to your target. So in the end a lot of it boils down to just building units and upgrades that seem good and praying to the Emperor that they actually are.

x 5 Sisters = 10.02 total damage. The Fire Dragons are burnt to a crisp, as befits such loathesome xenos.

Another acolyte understands the treacherous danger of the Eldar. Good.

 

[Lacrymas]

Grenades are good. You wouldn't be able to know how much damage they'll do without researching them anyway.

 

[chuft]

But what this breakdown also confirms is that with all the situational damage reduction bonuses, it's really not feasible to know at a glance how much damage something will do. Without being a math savant you just have to trust the previews.

The preview IS the glance. It calculates it all for you and it is 100% accurate. I am explaining the formula but I certainly don't do the calculations myself. I let the preview do it. Note you can select a unit 30 hexes away from an enemy and right click on the enemy and hold down to get the preview, including with Alt, you don't have to be anywhere near it. The formula is just useful to understand why some units are effective against certain targets and others are not.

Note your units in cover are invisible to the enemy unless they move next to it or your unit fires. Hint: turn off Overwatch if you are sneaking around to gather intel, or you don't want to piss off wildlife wandering around. Enemy outposts and cities have a vision range of 1 hex, units 3 hexes. Terrain and elevation can block line of sight. Note the HQ hex of the city (which has weapons) counts as a unit. Forests and ruins provide concealment, but if you are adjacent to an enemy unit, city or outpost you will automatically be seen.

No you can't preview abilities but that is rarely a concern once you have a feel for the system. Frag Grenades are good against enemies with multiple models, and low/no armor, and in the open. Krak Grenades are good against things like Kastelan Robots and tanks. Most abilities are not attacks like grenades are, they are buffs or debuffs or heals, so you don't need a preview.


Speaking of wildlife (the grey neutral units), I think this is something that screws up new players, so let me copy some info from the Discord.

adozu the lobster — 06/24/2021 4:01 AM
Proper wildlife management is crucial to a good clear, the rules are roughly as follows:

Each enemy is part of a "pack".

Packs are comprised of a small number of enemies of the same type, except kastllan packs (always include exactly 1 priest) and catachan packs (always include exactly 1 nest).

Packs roam a definite area, you can get a feel for what area they roam by observing them over a few turns.

Packs start as non aggroed: in this state they will roam their area and only attack if a unit is directly in their way and sometimes if it is in range (this appears to be random) after they completed their move.

Any player inflicted damage will aggro a pack: once aggroed ("unleashed" in game files) all members of that pack will seek the weakest targets in their reach and attack it together. They do not distinguish between which player damaged them.

Once unleashed packs will chase you as long as they have vision, even far outside their roam area.

If not damaged for a few turns (usually about 3) packs will lose aggro and return to their roam area.

Overwatch damage will unleash packs so turn off ow around wildlife you cannot handle or don't want to yet.

What should be taken from that?

1) don't attack any enemy you don't want to aggro yet
2) expect more enemies of the same type to show up if you damage one
3) try to never aggro multiple packs at once early game

 

[whocares]

The preview IS the glance. It calculates it all for you and it is 100% accurate. I am explaining the formula but I certainly don't do the calculations myself. I let the preview do it. Note you can select a unit 30 hexes away from an enemy and right click on the enemy and hold down to get the preview, including with Alt, you don't have to be anywhere near it. The formula is just useful to understand why some units are effective against certain targets and others are not.

See, the issue with the preview is that it only works on hover when you are in range of attacking an enemy. But if you have no idea what the enemy unit you're seeing even is and whether your units are any good against it, you want to preview damage from far away. To do so, you have to select your unit and right click the enemy. But don't let the button go. You have to hold it. Once you let it go, it executes the move and starts running towards the enemy. Pressing escape opens the menu. Pressing left click does nothing. And the only way I found of canceling this far-preview order is moving the cursor over the minimap and releasing the right button. When you do that, the unit gets stuck in a "where to move" limbo where you don't even have to hold right button to designate a new path. When you get there, you have to now move the camera to your unit and right click on exactly its model to cancel the preview move order. And if at any point you mess something up, like release the right button early or click on some other hex on accident, congratulations - your unit now moved to a random location, ruining whatever plan you've had.

Maybe I'm missing some obvious interaction here that would make all that easier. But in the current setup I really would've liked to know how much damage something will do without clicking things. But alas, the math is too much for me. As an aside, this, not being able to easily cancelt exploratory right clicks thing also caused me to found cities in places I didn't want to, and is perhaps the most annoying thing about the game's UI for me. Just let me press escape and cancel the move dammit.

 

[Lacrymas]

Hover over the unit you've selected and let go of right click.

 

[chuft]

Lacrymas is correct.

Also note the power of keeping the right mouse button held down. You can move the cursor around and in each hex you pause in, it will light up, with red outlines, all the hexes with known enemies your unit could hit from that hex.

This is incredibly useful if you are not sure if altitude or terrain would block your line of sight from a particular hex to a particular enemy, including the HQ building of a city.

 

[Darth Roxor]

turns out you can continue to use space marine globals even after you've been knocked out of the game

gud game highly recommended

Spoiler

actually it's shit and i'm glad to not have to play it anymore

 

[Lacrymas]

It's a great gaem.

 

[Jaedar]

It's a great gaem.

There's a lot frustrating with it, and I'd never play it against ai, but with other people it's pretty fun.

Balance feels perhaps a bit off. Necron monoliths feel about as good as the ork killbursta, but that's the orkz best tank, and the necrons 3rd best.

It really annoys me you have to look around in the compendium in like 3 different places to even stand a chance of telling what something does.

 

[Hydro]

Are there any Codex games going on? A tournament could be pretty fun.

 

[Lacrymas]

It's a great gaem.

There's a lot frustrating with it, and I'd never play it against ai, but with other people it's pretty fun.

Balance feels perhaps a bit off. Necron monoliths feel about as good as the ork killbursta, but that's the orkz best tank, and the necrons 3rd best.

It really annoys me you have to look around in the compendium in like 3 different places to even stand a chance of telling what something does.

The game is pretty balanced overall. The only factions which are currently op are Sisters and Dark Eldar, with a smattering of AdMech here and there, but the devs are currently working on a balance patch to address those.

 

[hv4iku]

Do you guys also think that space marines in base game (no dlc) are a bit underpowered? especially their vehicles and endgame units.

 

[chuft]

Are you talking about multiplayer or single player? I only play single player. I don't think multiplayer sees endgame units much.

Single player the Space Marines have at endgame the incredible force multiplier of being able to take units, lots of units, from their city and drop them anywhere on the map that they can see. And they have an operation that lets them see any megahex on the map they want. With the right research and units they can even do this and still have their action left after the unit lands. This means they can just land a huge force next to an enemy city when its army is away, and destroy the city. They also have flying transports when let them pick up the dropped units and move them quickly somewhere else like back to their city. So you as Space Marines (AI won't do this) can really destroy the economic capability of an enemy from across the map.

Gladius is unusual in that units do not desert if you cannot pay their support. (Even if you knock a side out of a game their units on-map just become "wildlife".) So the enemy army does not start to disappear if you take out some of their cities. To win economically you have to destroy some of the enemy big cities, then attrit away their units, knowing they will not be replaced. Just be aware of this, if they have a huge army about to attack your city, landing behind them to destroy their city will not make the army disappear. It can be useful before they get there to lead them off to the side with fast units used as a distraction, or to have an AI ally act as a meatshield while you set up and carry out your orbital drops.

 

[Lacrymas]

Space Marines are one of tougher base game factions to play imo. The one city thing is a trap. One would assume it would be easier to manage because it's only 1 city, but that comes with economic downsides that aren't easy to mitigate if you don't have much experience with the game. I recommend starting out with the necrons before tackling the other 3 base game factions.

 

[chuft]

You should manage your influence economy so you can drop a Fortress of Redemption next to a resource hex every time it is allowed (every 10 turns). And think of them as factories for the safe backfield, not as forts/military units. They are a crucial part of the SM economy.

 

[hv4iku]

I meant in multiplayer, because in singleplayer every faction can exploit the bot in some way, like the strat you mentioned.

Oh and yeah me and my friends play fast gamepace, i dont know how much that changes things.

The main problem is how the other factions gain advantage over you the longer the game goes (the lack of endgame units i talked about as well as being restricted to one city), so the pressure is on you to be the aggressor meanwhile you are given fortifications (Fortresses of Redemption) that work best with defensive gameplay (and you cant really place them where they will be best for attacking, because they also serve an economic role and need to be next to an outpost) and most of your infantry has a penalty after moving.

Also leman russ tank basically counters your entire faction, maybe with the exception of flyers. You could maybe overpower leman russ with better production and devastator death blob, but its difficult to have better production with a single city, when enemies have multiple.

Yes in the beginning SM have an advantage (tacs and devs are amazing 0 and 3 tier units respectivaly), but its really hard to exploit it, especially with wildlife. On the other hand in the endgame (i say endgame but its 80+ turns really) they have worse eco, worse units, and it will only get worse moving forward.

For example one game i played 1v1 vs my friend. He played AM and literally just camped in his city with no army just full research and eco. I controlled the whole map, trying to find him as fast as possible but it didnt matter. When i discovered him he already had researched leman russ and could produce one every 3 turns. Also the battlefield was in front of his city, so i had to travel the whole map with reinforcements (later teleport) needless to say i lost.

Sorry for any mistakes english isnt my native language.

 

[Galdred]

Yes in the beginning SM have an advantage (tacs and devs are amazing 0 and 3 tier units respectivaly), but its really hard to exploit it, especially with wildlife. On the other hand in the endgame (i say endgame but its 80+ turns really) they have worse eco, worse units, and it will only get worse moving forward.

I think MP works much better with reduced wildlife.

 

[Lacrymas]

Yes in the beginning SM have an advantage (tacs and devs are amazing 0 and 3 tier units respectivaly), but its really hard to exploit it, especially with wildlife. On the other hand in the endgame (i say endgame but its 80+ turns really) they have worse eco, worse units, and it will only get worse moving forward.

I think MP works much better with reduced wildlife.

These are the "standard" PvP settings with some explanations -

Game speed: standard or fast
Standard has the most build diversity with early, mid and late game builds, while fast favors greed. Both can be fun, fast is cool if you want to play around with higher tier units and big fights, but relative faction power is more balanced in standard.

Map size: tiny map 1v1, small map 2v2 etc.
This one is subject to debate as some people enjoy a larger map. You can play one map size larger for 2v2 and above, but its the same story as standard vs fast, meaning a greedier late game meta on a larger map, especially if you slap fast on top. Rush is healthy for the meta as it forces build nuance and diversity, also not all factions are equally proficient at book meta, which often devolves into who has the better t6/7 unit. To top it off, smaller maps provide more consistent spawns and less map RNG. Still, if you find big battles with big units fun, fast on one map size larger is how you get there, just know it's not very balanced.

Landmass: very high (water sucks)

Artefact density: very low / low (stacking damage or hp artifacts can break the game)

Special resource density: high (medium is also fun, but harder and less consistent map)

Necron tombs: high

Webway gate density: high for smaller maps, medium for larger (gates op)

Holy site density: low (SoB op)

Wire weed density: very low

Imperial ruins density: low

Forest density: low

River density: low / very low

Region size: very small

Region density: very high (region settings are important so you don't get stuck with only one type of terrain in your spawn)

Imperial ruins and forests are set on low because they provide 33% ranged damage reduction, making some units overly tanky and it's not balanced when the whole map is forests and ruins.

For example one game i played 1v1 vs my friend. He played AM and literally just camped in his city with no army just full research and eco. I controlled the whole map, trying to find him as fast as possible but it didnt matter. When i discovered him he already had researched leman russ and could produce one every 3 turns. Also the battlefield was in front of his city, so i had to travel the whole map with reinforcements (later teleport) needless to say i lost.

Producing a Leman Russ every 3 turns on fast game speed tells me two things. Either you and your friend don't know that building more than 1 production building of the same type speeds up unit production or he's deep into negative loyalty. Either way, you can exploit this. I just disabled all the DLC to check out what units the SM have access to without it and the *only* units until tier 6 (when the AM get their Leman Russ) you are missing out on are Scouts and the Whirlwind. You can counter the Leman Russ spam with a combination of even the lowly Tactical/Assault Marines with melta bombs and Devastator Marines. Or try a vehicle build. The lemons are much more expensive than your low tier units. It gets trickier if he has a Tank Commander + Wyrdvane Psykers though, but if you don't have a good army going by that point he has beat you in the economy game.

I wouldn't wait for the AM to get to Leman Russes, though, especially if I'm playing the SM. The only good AM low tier infantry with no DLC are guardsmen with frag and krak grenades, so you can easily outgun them in the early game. Oh, and I'd play on standard for the majority of PvP battles, fast favors some factions more than others.

 

[flyingjohn]

The main problem is how the other factions gain advantage over you the longer the game goe

That is the point, they are not designed for late game minus dropping terminators on cities.

so the pressure is on you to be the aggressor

This is true for every single faction. Playing defensively is not a good idea. Your job is to expand your buffer zone and control as much as key points as possible. Your friend turtling is a different thing and would not work for the majority of multiplayer matches.

that work best with defensive gameplay

They are offensive tools designed to help your attack. Using them defensively is useful only if you find some very useful resource, but they should be used to aid in sieges.Don't look at just their damage ratio.

lso leman russ tank basically counters your entire faction

Melta bombs and devastators wreck them. I mean, i don't know how you are having problems? It ain't a baneblade.

Yes in the beginning SM have an advantage (tacs and devs are amazing 0 and 3 tier units respectivaly), but its really hard to exploit it, especially with wildlife.

You have the best armored infantry in the beginning,wildlife is not a problem unless you decide to engage robots and try to kill everything.

I controlled the whole map, trying to find him as fast as possible but it didnt matter.

When i discovered him he already had researched leman russ and could produce one every 3 turns

You were too slow. You have access to bikes which can easily scout the majority of the map and you have the ability to use the radar to discover stuff. You should have found him easily and eliminated him. And every 3 turns for a leman on a cap is simply bad.

The only good AM low tier infantry with no DLC are guardsmen with frag and krak grenades, so you can easily outgun them in the early game

There is nothing better than being space marines and finding a mediocre/bad AM player focusing on infantry. It is Christmas Gladius.

 

[hv4iku]

Producing a Leman Russ every 3 turns on fast game speed tells me two things. Either you and your friend don't know that building more than 1 production building of the same type speeds up unit production or he's deep into negative loyalty.

It was more of an economy problem, it was 60th turn and he didnt have the resources. Later it was obv every turn.

You can counter the Leman Russ spam with a combination of even the lowly Tactical/Assault Marines with melta bombs and Devastator Marines. Or try a vehicle build. The lemons are much more expensive than your low tier units

You need 4-5 meltas to kill one leman russ, and without them your tacs are useless against them just dropping morale after death. 4 tacs are 2 times more expensive than one leman russ. 2 devastators are already more expensive than one leman russ, and you need three (more than twice the price lmao). So you need at least 2 times better eco to counter them.

I wouldn't wait for the AM to get to Leman Russes, though, especially if I'm playing the SM. The only good AM low tier infantry with no DLC are guardsmen with frag and krak grenades, so you can easily outgun them in the early game.

Thats true, i tried rushing him, but was too slow with wildlife attacking me. But its kinda imbalanced when a faction has to win the game before 6 tier of tech. Of course its possible, but very hard against similar skilled opponent.

Oh, and I'd play on standard for the majority of PvP battles, fast favors some factions more than others.

Noted and agreed, though i doubt my friends will agree to playing standard lmao, they actually even wanted to play very fast.

They are offensive tools designed to help your attack. Using them defensively is useful only if you find some very useful resource, but they should be used to aid in sieges.Don't look at just their damage ratio.

But when you already placed them, you cant move them, so they arent useful for attacking if they stay in the back.

You have the best armored infantry in the beginning,wildlife is not a problem unless you decide to engage robots and try to kill everything

When you search the entire map for your opponent trying to exploit the early game advantage they are a problem, because they slow you down. You cant just ignore units dealing you damage.

You were too slow. You have access to bikes which can easily scout the majority of the map and you have the ability to use the radar to discover stuff.

Thats true i probably overrated my infantry as they just arent fast enough and shouldve gotten bikes earlier. (i only started producing vehicles after having devastators)

 

[chuft]

By "the radar" I am not sure whether he means the bike's 3 range scouting ability, or the SM op which lets them see a megahex anywhere on the map by using orbital scans. But you should definitely look at using the op if you haven't been. It's level 1 and easy to get. It's called Orbital Scan.

 

[Lacrymas]

Yes, use your operations when playing the SM. Not all of them are as flashy as the orbital bombardment one but are useful in other ways. The SM quest forces you to research the orbital scan anyway.

 

[hv4iku]

Also, when playing MP should i use simultaneous turns? Its faster, but kinda buggy, and completely changes the usefulness od overwatch

 

[Lacrymas]

You shouldn't use simultaneous turns in any tb game in multiplayer.

 

[Darth Roxor]

You shouldn't use simultaneous turns in any tb game in multiplayer.

enjoy every turn taking an hour