La vie sexuelle
Learned
Well, that sucks. There is anything good in new fluff?
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Incline Warhammer 40,000 Lore Thread
- Thread starter Heroic Liberator
- Start date
Well, that sucks. There is anything good in new fluff?
lightbane
Arcane
- Joined
- Dec 27, 2008
- Messages
- 10,559
Top kek. GW's greed and inanity has no bounds.
A game from a bygone era, the game that made me into a WH40k fan.
Shame WH40k and games went full-retard by the end of the 00s.
Up to 7th edition there were some minor lore changes here and there to keep things trudging along, a few name changes like Astra Militarum being the new name for the Imperial Guard (again for copyright reasons). Over the course of the editions up to 9th (the previous as of a few weeks) several new armies popped up: the Adeptus Mechanicus got their own army now, there's the mini-titans of the Imperial Knights and their Chaos equivalents, the Harlequins got their own proper Codex again, the Genestealer Cults got their own Codex to serve as the vanguard to a proper Tyranid force, the Adeptus Custodes get their own book and are joined by the Sisters of Silence, and the forces of Chaos got split off into several books of their own: the Thousand Sons, Death Guard and World Eaters have their own Codexes now, while the Emperor's Children can, for lack of a better term, get fucked. You can still field most of the god-aligned unit in the base Chaos Codex, but the true specialists are in their own book. Oh, and the Leagues of Votann, who are space dwarfs but definitely not Squats. They were released and promptly forgotten about.
Then 8th edition hit with the biggest lore changes so far. On top of major rule changes to the point where every army got a reworked mini-Codex when the edition hit, there was the teeny little issue of Cadia getting blown the fuck up. Abaddon's Black Crusade finally worked and he managed to fuck Cadia up so bad that it tore the galaxy in half:
This created the Dark Imperium, to the galactic north-east of the Great Rift that now barely able to navigate using the light of the Astronomican. The Great Rift is essentually the Eye of Terror massively elongated and nothing can pass through without being ripped apart by the Warp. There's only two corridors that can be "safely" navigated: one close to the Eye of Terror and one north to Ultramar and the Tau Empire (look for purple text). Things are pretty bleak, but then this nerd called Belisarius Cawl burst out of his basement after locking himself there for 10000 years and presenting the Primaris Project: he spent ten millenia pouring over the Space Marine design and created the Primaris Marines, essentially Space Marines 2. They were handed out across all the Marine chapters they could find, with some of them (the Flesh Tearers, some of the Black Templars) not being all too happy with them. They've got all sorts of new models with new weapons and gear, with older models being slowly phased out (RIP old Dreadnought).
And who better to spread the good word than none other than pappa Smurf himself, Roboute Guilliman. That's right, through a mix of Cawl being a massive nerd and some Eldar woman kissing his booboo (read: gaping neck wound caused by his daemonic brother Fulgrim) away Big Bobby G woke up and started to help the Imperium back up after complaining about why they didn't let him die and wake him up to this hellscape of an Imperium. He's trying his best and had to dispose the High Lords of Terra when they objected to being ousted, but he's doing well. He lauched the Indomitus Crusade to get the Imperium back together, and it's working out so well there's an unprescedented time skip of well over a century, so we're well and good in the 42nd millenium now. With such a time skip come a few changes: Ursarkar Creed has died of old age and has been succeeded by his daughter Ursula, who carries on her father's legacy and old coat with those who could escape their doomed world and their descendants. Cadia broke before the Guard did. Commissar Yarrick also died, but it's all but stated that he was killed by Angron of all people, so the daemon now has to deal with Ghazghkull coming to avenge his best frenemy.
But Guilliman's gotta deal with his brothers. Magnus the Red and Mortarion have gotten their own models as well in their full glory of Daemon Primarchs, and Angron's model will be releasing soon. A three against one would be bad... except that the Lion also decided to wake up from his nap. That's right, Lion El'Jonson is back as well... if you managed to pick up his model before the scalpers did.
Everybody's trying to adapt to the changes made by the Great Rift. But it's not all about the cosmic bunghole being split open: the Octarius War between the Orks and Hive Fleet Leviathan has seen a decisive victory in the Tyranids' favor. So ol' Kryptman's plan to chuck the Nids at the Orks to have them murder one another, which MANY people warned against, went south because the Nids are now stronger than ever and a massive Ork armada decided to fly to the Great Rift (which they call Gork's Grin, which in their eyes ate the stars and spat out fun stuff for the Orks to fight) to have some fun there. The Nids are gunning for Terra (and for reference, Octarius is somewhere close to Badab on the map) with little in the way to provide a true threat (aside from maybe Catachan). So good job Kryptman, you fucked up big time.
So there's some changes, and it remains to be seen where 10e is going to take us. The core rule book only went on presale yesterday, so I'll keep an eye out for that. So far the Nids look like a big threat, and Cawl finally figured out how to make Primaris Terminators.
It's still grim and dark and there's only war, but it's the 42nd instead of the 41st millenium now.
Heroic Liberator
Arcane
- Joined
- Oct 2, 2018
- Messages
- 19,495
Talking about Necrons in particular, some of the best recent Black Library novels are centered on them - namely The Infinite and the Divine & the ongoing Twice-dead King trilogy (2 novels released thus far, both great).
And that aside, re: Oldcrons vs Nucrons, it should be emphasized that the whole 40k Tomb Kings revamp of the Necrons still allows for Oldcron style subfactions to exist as mindless killing machines enslaved by C'tan shards if that's what you prefer in terms of fluff (while also allowing for greater variety in terms of more iconic Necron characters and more varied subfactions for the Tomb Kings in speesh type dynasties).
What book is it? I've read only The Infinite and the Divine.
Heroic Liberator
Arcane
- Joined
- Oct 2, 2018
- Messages
- 19,495
Severed by Nate Crowley.
I was talking about their lore, I didn't even know that the two of them had a book.
It is worth mentioning that Magnus finally got his revenge on the Space Wolves, devastating the Fenris System and Fenris itself.
La vie sexuelle
Learned
Up to 7th edition there were some minor lore changes here and there to keep things trudging along, a few name changes like Astra Militarum being the new name for the Imperial Guard (again for copyright reasons). Over the course of the editions up to 9th (the previous as of a few weeks) several new armies popped up: the Adeptus Mechanicus got their own army now, there's the mini-titans of the Imperial Knights and their Chaos equivalents, the Harlequins got their own proper Codex again, the Genestealer Cults got their own Codex to serve as the vanguard to a proper Tyranid force, the Adeptus Custodes get their own book and are joined by the Sisters of Silence, and the forces of Chaos got split off into several books of their own: the Thousand Sons, Death Guard and World Eaters have their own Codexes now, while the Emperor's Children can, for lack of a better term, get fucked. You can still field most of the god-aligned unit in the base Chaos Codex, but the true specialists are in their own book. Oh, and the Leagues of Votann, who are space dwarfs but definitely not Squats. They were released and promptly forgotten about.
Then 8th edition hit with the biggest lore changes so far. On top of major rule changes to the point where every army got a reworked mini-Codex when the edition hit, there was the teeny little issue of Cadia getting blown the fuck up. Abaddon's Black Crusade finally worked and he managed to fuck Cadia up so bad that it tore the galaxy in half:
This created the Dark Imperium, to the galactic north-east of the Great Rift that now barely able to navigate using the light of the Astronomican. The Great Rift is essentually the Eye of Terror massively elongated and nothing can pass through without being ripped apart by the Warp. There's only two corridors that can be "safely" navigated: one close to the Eye of Terror and one north to Ultramar and the Tau Empire (look for purple text). Things are pretty bleak, but then this nerd called Belisarius Cawl burst out of his basement after locking himself there for 10000 years and presenting the Primaris Project: he spent ten millenia pouring over the Space Marine design and created the Primaris Marines, essentially Space Marines 2. They were handed out across all the Marine chapters they could find, with some of them (the Flesh Tearers, some of the Black Templars) not being all too happy with them. They've got all sorts of new models with new weapons and gear, with older models being slowly phased out (RIP old Dreadnought).
And who better to spread the good word than none other than pappa Smurf himself, Roboute Guilliman. That's right, through a mix of Cawl being a massive nerd and some Eldar woman kissing his booboo (read: gaping neck wound caused by his daemonic brother Fulgrim) away Big Bobby G woke up and started to help the Imperium back up after complaining about why they didn't let him die and wake him up to this hellscape of an Imperium. He's trying his best and had to dispose the High Lords of Terra when they objected to being ousted, but he's doing well. He lauched the Indomitus Crusade to get the Imperium back together, and it's working out so well there's an unprescedented time skip of well over a century, so we're well and good in the 42nd millenium now. With such a time skip come a few changes: Ursarkar Creed has died of old age and has been succeeded by his daughter Ursula, who carries on her father's legacy and old coat with those who could escape their doomed world and their descendants. Cadia broke before the Guard did. Commissar Yarrick also died, but it's all but stated that he was killed by Angron of all people, so the daemon now has to deal with Ghazghkull coming to avenge his best frenemy.
But Guilliman's gotta deal with his brothers. Magnus the Red and Mortarion have gotten their own models as well in their full glory of Daemon Primarchs, and Angron's model will be releasing soon. A three against one would be bad... except that the Lion also decided to wake up from his nap. That's right, Lion El'Jonson is back as well... if you managed to pick up his model before the scalpers did.
Everybody's trying to adapt to the changes made by the Great Rift. But it's not all about the cosmic bunghole being split open: the Octarius War between the Orks and Hive Fleet Leviathan has seen a decisive victory in the Tyranids' favor. So ol' Kryptman's plan to chuck the Nids at the Orks to have them murder one another, which MANY people warned against, went south because the Nids are now stronger than ever and a massive Ork armada decided to fly to the Great Rift (which they call Gork's Grin, which in their eyes ate the stars and spat out fun stuff for the Orks to fight) to have some fun there. The Nids are gunning for Terra (and for reference, Octarius is somewhere close to Badab on the map) with little in the way to provide a true threat (aside from maybe Catachan). So good job Kryptman, you fucked up big time.
So there's some changes, and it remains to be seen where 10e is going to take us. The core rule book only went on presale yesterday, so I'll keep an eye out for that. So far the Nids look like a big threat, and Cawl finally figured out how to make Primaris Terminators.
It's still grim and dark and there's only war, but it's the 42nd instead of the 41st millenium now.
I heard about Smurfs Insurgence, but I didn't expect a situation on that's scale. Also, I must admit, I don't understand everything. And I don't know if I want. All this changes feel for me very "starwarsy" and unnecessary (like Adeptus Mechanicusas separate army, why?). But I slight interested when this all going. Where is the wall that stops Games Workshop?
Now GW have few armies to sell instead of one. I'm not pleased with that change, but new armies owners probably see this in different way.
- Joined
- Apr 19, 2012
- Messages
- 1,804
I'm going to challenge this POV a bit because I don't quite see things that way.
Abstract: the new necron fluff very much invalidates the old fluff and allowing a subsection of old style crons to exist as the retarded cousins of the main necrons is paltry compensation that doesn't quite result in everyone being happy since nucrons will always be considered the real necrons now whilst the oldcrons languish in obscurity and are relegated to background threats.
Original necron lore was pure cosmic horror, their goals were mostly unknowable (at best hinting about seeding the galaxy full of life to reap a harvest, aka the reaper plotline from mass effect) yet they did seem to have some sort of purpose, mostly revolving around kidnapping random people and making them into pariahs:
Stories involving old necrons always had a horror vibe and the way other races reacted to them, including Eldar, was always a reaction of "oh shit, one of the original horrors of this galaxy is waking up and there is nothing we can do about it". The eldar had to go look up ancient prophecies and forbidden knowledge to get any clue about the necrons, they were almost as ignorant as imperials when it came to this threat.
I remember one short story involving the deceiver that had a callidus assassin on a mission to infiltrate an imperial governor's palace to kill him because he had been corrupt af, only for the governor to let the phase blade meld into him and reveal himself as the deceiver before gloating to the callidus that the Iom was too SOFT and that would have to change once he takes over. Story finishes with him licking his lips and saying the polymorphine that callidus assassins use gave their souls a particularly delectful taste before approaching the disarmed callidus ominously, implication being the deceiver had been doing this for a while and was working his way up closer and closer to terra with each new LARP.
All that is completely gone with the necron revamp. Now we know their goals, we know C'tan aren't the top dogs but mostly trapped and used as pokemon, with lone agents like the deceiver above relegated to being a shard of the real thing that actually anyone can kill, that callidus was just unlucky in that she had a phase blade but a full assassin kill team could probably get the job done.
Old crons are now just the retarded cousins to the actual necrons, enslaved by shards of c'tan (so not even the real thing) and utterly mindless at best if not stupid at worst, like flayed ones who are just schizos and mental headcases that other necrons pity but ignore the same way your average san francisco dweller ignores the homeless relieving themselves on the streets.
The pariah plotline got completely dropped, we never hear about them anymore and the models got phased out ages ago and are unlikely to return.
Eldar and other races understand the necrons to various degrees, Eldar are not only quite familiar with them now and recognise them as their ancient enemies but even imperials are no longer quite as terrified of them as they used to be except when the occasional time necrons pull out some bs doomsday megaweapon.
But otherwise they just react to them as they would any other random xenos threat, like in the 10E trailer that has sororitas, ig and primaris fighting the necrons in open ground and actually doing quite well, something that would have been unthinkable in old necron lore.
Hell in one of the hammer and bolter animations, you have chaos marines butchering necrons for fun and a necron lord BEGGING for his life (ultimately it was a ruse but the fact it even happened at all was a low point). Necrons just ain't scary anymore.
More tellingly, whenever stories about necrons are written now, it's always about nucrons, because oldcrons are a minor footnote whose galactic importance is on par with eldar exodites. The galactic horror is gone, now it's all space egyptians with space egyptian politics and space egyptian characters with personalities and motivations that are quite understandable to us humans. What mysteries are even left about the necrons anymore other then maybe the void dragon on mars?
Aaah found a good example of classic cron creepiness, xenology! If you ain't read this before then settle in for a good time. And weep when you realise this book is no longer considered canon due to a number of elements clashing with lore updates.
https://e-hentai.org/g/1135680/846ca27a34/
Don't mind the site name, yes it's mainly for lewds but there's other things to find there including old 40k stuff.
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Sometimes the dumb stuff in 40k can be smaller in scope than an entire faction revamp.
You know Ferrus Manus, aka Iron Hands with the Iron hands of the Iron Hands legion? The guy who had a Guts/Griffith thing going on with Fulgrim only to end up one head short after the latter got possesed?
He's been shown to fight at the head (lmao) of the Legion of the Damned.
You know Ferrus Manus, aka Iron Hands with the Iron hands of the Iron Hands legion? The guy who had a Guts/Griffith thing going on with Fulgrim only to end up one head short after the latter got possesed?
He's been shown to fight at the head (lmao) of the Legion of the Damned.
NecroLord
Dumbfuck!
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- 14,855
Fuck yeah he did.
The furries had it coming! I hate how hypocritical those overpomped viking cosplayers who say "wolf" way too much condemn chapters like the Flesh Tearers for their brutality when they themselves have a blood soaked history (then again, what Original Founding Chapter doesn't).
The Imperial Fists were soaked in blood, but during the War of the Beast it was mostly their own. You know, on account of them being wiped out.
NecroLord
Dumbfuck!
- Joined
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Indeed.
However, Imperial Fists are stoic gigachads. You almost never hear them complain about anything, they just do their duty above all.
Thane Solus
Arcane
I reject most lore advances past 3rd edition for my own sanity.
Different people have different breaking points for how much suspension of disbelief they can have for a setting before it completely collapses on itself. For Louis it's the geopolitics that don't mesh with the "fascist" kill all xenos demeanor that the Iom has become flanderised into.
For me it's eldar making up with dark eldar as if it was no big deal (who cares if you've been raping my family and turning them into drugs or living screaming flesh chairs for generations), primaris marines (0 real impact in lore, exist purely for obvious commercial reasons and any actual interesting plotline that could come from the tensions between OG marines and the new kids on the block is completely ignored) and a billion retcons that on their own wouldn't bother me but put them all together and it's like wtf are you vandalizing your own setting?
In a totally unrelated note, i'm developping a fondness for Marines Malevolent. Why? Well for starters so many people flanderizing them as the biggest dousches around to the point even GW gets in on it is making me like them as a sort of plucky underdog.
But to me they are a callback to RT marines and a nice antidote to space marines becoming "nice guys" as a default rather then exception. I like my heroic space marines don't get me wrong, fond of Blood Angels as the OG cool guy chapter (before salamanders became fleshed into the poster marines for niceness), but when 90% of them are like that it's no longer special.
I fully expect marines malevolent at some point to get killed off in a horrible and humiliating way and millions of plebbit 40k fans will cheer and dance when it happens. Bonus points if they fall to chaos even though a consistent part of the mm lore is they are 100% loyal and never found guilty of any heretical behavior whatsoever despite the many attempts to investigate them, which in itself is impressive.
Close, but i prefer the Chad man's chapter that even talked shiet about new primaris garbage and horrible new lore
Gabriel Seth.
Bonus reaction to the last years lore, wardisney+
NecroLord
Dumbfuck!
- Joined
- Sep 6, 2022
- Messages
- 14,855
I reject most lore advances past 3rd edition for my own sanity.
Different people have different breaking points for how much suspension of disbelief they can have for a setting before it completely collapses on itself. For Louis it's the geopolitics that don't mesh with the "fascist" kill all xenos demeanor that the Iom has become flanderised into.
For me it's eldar making up with dark eldar as if it was no big deal (who cares if you've been raping my family and turning them into drugs or living screaming flesh chairs for generations), primaris marines (0 real impact in lore, exist purely for obvious commercial reasons and any actual interesting plotline that could come from the tensions between OG marines and the new kids on the block is completely ignored) and a billion retcons that on their own wouldn't bother me but put them all together and it's like wtf are you vandalizing your own setting?
In a totally unrelated note, i'm developping a fondness for Marines Malevolent. Why? Well for starters so many people flanderizing them as the biggest dousches around to the point even GW gets in on it is making me like them as a sort of plucky underdog.
But to me they are a callback to RT marines and a nice antidote to space marines becoming "nice guys" as a default rather then exception. I like my heroic space marines don't get me wrong, fond of Blood Angels as the OG cool guy chapter (before salamanders became fleshed into the poster marines for niceness), but when 90% of them are like that it's no longer special.
I fully expect marines malevolent at some point to get killed off in a horrible and humiliating way and millions of plebbit 40k fans will cheer and dance when it happens. Bonus points if they fall to chaos even though a consistent part of the mm lore is they are 100% loyal and never found guilty of any heretical behavior whatsoever despite the many attempts to investigate them, which in itself is impressive.
Close, but i prefer the Chad man's chapter that even talked shiet about new primaris garbage and horrible new lore
Gabriel Seth.
Bonus reaction to the last years lore, wardisney+
Ah, a fellow Flesh Tearers enjoyer!
La vie sexuelle
Learned
Why squats are so boring now? Is that because today's people are whiny whimpering weenies?
Dorf then:
Dorf now:
Dorf then:
Dorf now:
lightbane
Arcane
- Joined
- Dec 27, 2008
- Messages
- 10,559
They look like offbrand Marines from SC2... Which already were offbrand Space Marines from WH40k, thus doing a full circle.
For what's worth new Squats still have super-tech, but their sudden re-appearance sounds like an asspull (because it is).
What I wonder is how GW plans to end WH40k, as so far it seems to be moving towards an ending, or a resolution of some sort, and they can't do an Age of Sigmar again without tanking the IP.
For what's worth new Squats still have super-tech, but their sudden re-appearance sounds like an asspull (because it is).
What I wonder is how GW plans to end WH40k, as so far it seems to be moving towards an ending, or a resolution of some sort, and they can't do an Age of Sigmar again without tanking the IP.
Paint them right and they can look pretty neat.
They only axed Fantasy because the entire line sold worse than some 40k armies. No way they're goint to kill their cash cow at this point.
Louis_Cypher
Arcane
- Joined
- Jan 1, 2016
- Messages
- 1,994
This takes a certain level of nerd genius that must be appreciated.
Now they must fight the Nec-Trons.
La vie sexuelle
Learned
Exactly, straight from Starcraft. And not his fun, first, but second.
Isn't that sound like Emperor motive again?
Isn't that sound like Emperor motive again?
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