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Warhammer Warhammer 40,000: Sanctus Reach - 3D turn-based strategy from Slitherine
- Thread starter LESS T_T
- Start date
Regarding the combat model, I had another look at the unit values, and for the Imperial Knight, the heavy armor values are:
90/70/30:
It means that its rear armor is inferior to Space Marine Armor. It is an extreme exemple, but that makes zero sense that heavy bolters (Pierce: 35) can destroy a knight, even from behind.
So the problem for me is not only that heavy bolters can pierce through tank armor, but also that they are more effective against rear armor than dedicated AT weapons (and it is no exageration. If getting a rear shot against a tank, it is better to go with the heavy bolter as long as the rear armor is <= 40).
90/70/30:
It means that its rear armor is inferior to Space Marine Armor. It is an extreme exemple, but that makes zero sense that heavy bolters (Pierce: 35) can destroy a knight, even from behind.
So the problem for me is not only that heavy bolters can pierce through tank armor, but also that they are more effective against rear armor than dedicated AT weapons (and it is no exageration. If getting a rear shot against a tank, it is better to go with the heavy bolter as long as the rear armor is <= 40).
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I gave the game another try. It is miles better than it was at release.
The combat system favors maneuver a lot, given how rear armor is weak for every vehicle, while front armor is very sturdy for a lot of them.
It might not be a very good representation of the universe (but the 8th edition also allows heavy bolters to destroy a dreadnought!), but the combat is interesting.
Orks are fun to play, because they lack the usual tools to deal with armor(except for their Gorkonaut and battlewagon with Suppakannon) , and have to rely on flanking with light vehicles to get the job done.
Part of the problem with the system is that the devs didn't make the models needed to give orks a fighting chance against armor under a more "realistic" system (they lack meltaguns, and the nobz don't have a powerklaw option, unless they are in mega armor. They also don't have lootas or tankbustas).
The combat itself is now better than in Final Liberation, because you cannot only rely on long range anti tank weapons. Getting close and flanking your opponent are required here. Also, you can find opponents in MP games, unlike in FLib.
But as anvi pointed out, the campaigns are a bit too drawn out for their own good.
The combat system favors maneuver a lot, given how rear armor is weak for every vehicle, while front armor is very sturdy for a lot of them.
It might not be a very good representation of the universe (but the 8th edition also allows heavy bolters to destroy a dreadnought!), but the combat is interesting.
Orks are fun to play, because they lack the usual tools to deal with armor(except for their Gorkonaut and battlewagon with Suppakannon) , and have to rely on flanking with light vehicles to get the job done.
Part of the problem with the system is that the devs didn't make the models needed to give orks a fighting chance against armor under a more "realistic" system (they lack meltaguns, and the nobz don't have a powerklaw option, unless they are in mega armor. They also don't have lootas or tankbustas).
The combat itself is now better than in Final Liberation, because you cannot only rely on long range anti tank weapons. Getting close and flanking your opponent are required here. Also, you can find opponents in MP games, unlike in FLib.
But as anvi pointed out, the campaigns are a bit too drawn out for their own good.
mwnn85
Savant
- Joined
- Aug 14, 2017
- Messages
- 210
I think a lot of the games shortcomings are down to Slitherine as they have a tendency to "play it safe" with their offerings.
I wouldn't say Panzer Corps for example was significantly better than Panzer General Forever or Open General.
And WH40K Armageddon is a re-skin.
Games Workshop are restrictive as well.
I've no idea why they won't finally sanction a WH40K game which can use tabletop rules - it could sell into the hundreds of thousands.
It would likely play better than what we currently have here as well.
There's plenty of people - including myself - who won't ever get drawn into the insanity of buying hundreds of models and all the paints, etc.
I can always remember my Aunt getting me Hero Quest many years ago for Christmas/Birthday.
As a 5 year old I had no one to play the game with, neither did I have any idea what to do with it.
I don't imagine she knew what she was buying either; she would've been better off just getting me an Amiga 500+ game!
Time to up the ante.
Mix in the graphical flair, sounds and style from something like Dawn of War Dark Crusade.
Flesh out the current mechanics; the game has been designed exclusively around quick skirmish battles.
I do like it but it could be far more grandiose.
...but they'll probably just keep knocking out "campaign pack" DLC's
I wouldn't say Panzer Corps for example was significantly better than Panzer General Forever or Open General.
And WH40K Armageddon is a re-skin.
Games Workshop are restrictive as well.
I've no idea why they won't finally sanction a WH40K game which can use tabletop rules - it could sell into the hundreds of thousands.
It would likely play better than what we currently have here as well.
There's plenty of people - including myself - who won't ever get drawn into the insanity of buying hundreds of models and all the paints, etc.
I can always remember my Aunt getting me Hero Quest many years ago for Christmas/Birthday.
As a 5 year old I had no one to play the game with, neither did I have any idea what to do with it.
I don't imagine she knew what she was buying either; she would've been better off just getting me an Amiga 500+ game!
Time to up the ante.
Mix in the graphical flair, sounds and style from something like Dawn of War Dark Crusade.
Flesh out the current mechanics; the game has been designed exclusively around quick skirmish battles.
I do like it but it could be far more grandiose.
...but they'll probably just keep knocking out "campaign pack" DLC's
Indeed, what the game would need now would be a "director's edition" with revamped campaign (like the one in Final Liberation FFS, not a soulless sequence of preset battles), tweaked mechanisms (actually, the gameplay is somewhat close to Epic Armageddon, which is great. They just need to make heavy bolter/assault cannons not be the best weapon to dispatch tanks from the rear or flanks, but that would require more ork units with AT capabilities, or giving all of them melee krak grenades).
But they have steered the game in the right direction so far, and they plan to add a skirmish campaign (I guess it will be closer to Steel Panthers freeform campaign or whatever it was called, where you lead your forces from a random mission to another).
But they have steered the game in the right direction so far, and they plan to add a skirmish campaign (I guess it will be closer to Steel Panthers freeform campaign or whatever it was called, where you lead your forces from a random mission to another).
- Joined
- Apr 24, 2015
- Messages
- 21,193
The good news is that a new DLC is incoming. The bad news is that it is the Chaos Demons (does anyone really play them in 40K?).
BTW, for those that play the game, I wrote an user unfriendly simulator here:
https://steamcommunity.com/app/502370/discussions/0/1620599015873798677/
It helps understanding which weapon works best against what kind of armor.
Infinitron, I think this thread belongs to Tactical Gaming.
BTW, for those that play the game, I wrote an user unfriendly simulator here:
https://steamcommunity.com/app/502370/discussions/0/1620599015873798677/
It helps understanding which weapon works best against what kind of armor.
Infinitron, I think this thread belongs to Tactical Gaming.
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- Joined
- Apr 24, 2015
- Messages
- 21,193
Better not summoning him - or the thread might end in adventure gaming or God knows where.
- Joined
- Feb 19, 2005
- Messages
- 4,656
So what’s the verdict here, do you guys recommend getting this? Looks pretty sweet.
laclongquan
Arcane
No Codex LP thread for this game? It's bad I think, despite all the warhammer dorks would hype.
Not really: The tactical part is better done than in Final Liberation. However, the campaign itself is a bit underwhelming, with no connection to your troops (you have a subset of your forces available for deployment every battle), and lack of strategic decision (while Final Liberation had you pick which sectors to attack, and how to compose your force).
Overall, I would say the game is stronger in skirmish and MP than Final Liberation, but the campaign is much weaker.
laclongquan
Arcane
WHen I search for the name in youtube, this is the top result, a LP video
And I dare say I can see what's wrong with the game and why no one bother to LP it
1. At close view it looks like minis! :horror: Yeah, we dont share the perverted passion for painting minis and let armies of green blocks massacre the party of red on the plastic battlefield. Looking like minis is not a turn-on. For us non-fans, it's not good. And I dare say we non-fans are the big majority of potential players, not the mini fans.
2. When the unit move in the shadow, they look dark and blending in, not easy to see. Again, an artifact of trying for the mini look. And yet, it hamper gameplays. This is a bad trade-off, in aping the mini's look and feel, they hurt gameplay which is very bad.
3. No ragdoll, or character card, or something that personalizing an unit to us. It look just one unit of mini to the next. Why should we care?
Sure, you might shout "it's a game for us mini, you big meany". But you guys are a minor very minor portion of gamers, right? You guys dont even do a LP here, which just show: not only you are tiny in number, you are not that fiery in passion. Cater to you guys is a big mistake.
(I speak in context of Codex base, of course. Possibly you minis are bigger elsewhere... yet I doubt it.)
And I dare say I can see what's wrong with the game and why no one bother to LP it
1. At close view it looks like minis! :horror: Yeah, we dont share the perverted passion for painting minis and let armies of green blocks massacre the party of red on the plastic battlefield. Looking like minis is not a turn-on. For us non-fans, it's not good. And I dare say we non-fans are the big majority of potential players, not the mini fans.
2. When the unit move in the shadow, they look dark and blending in, not easy to see. Again, an artifact of trying for the mini look. And yet, it hamper gameplays. This is a bad trade-off, in aping the mini's look and feel, they hurt gameplay which is very bad.
3. No ragdoll, or character card, or something that personalizing an unit to us. It look just one unit of mini to the next. Why should we care?
Sure, you might shout "it's a game for us mini, you big meany". But you guys are a minor very minor portion of gamers, right? You guys dont even do a LP here, which just show: not only you are tiny in number, you are not that fiery in passion. Cater to you guys is a big mistake.
(I speak in context of Codex base, of course. Possibly you minis are bigger elsewhere... yet I doubt it.)
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Actually, I think they decided to go with a miniature feel because of low production budget. That worked rather well in Battle Brothers after all.
Unit personnalization and connection is made even worse because you never really know what units are in your campaign roster.
Citizen
Guest
I've seen nothing of interest. Maybe I just didn't search in the right places.
That was unexpected, but it sure has potential:
from Strategygamer.com:
from Strategygamer.com:
SANCTUS REACH GETS SURPRISE SANDBOX CAMPAIGN IN TODAY'S UPDATE
BY JOE ROBINSON 11 SEP 2018 0
Slitherine have just announced a surprise update for turn-based tactical strategy game Warhammer 40,000: Sanctus Reach. The developers, who’ve recently come out of developing the game’s most recent Horrors of the Warp expansion, have released today an update that adds a sandbox campaign mode:
Now you will be able to completely customize and generate new campaigns to your liking, choosing the faction you'd like to lead and setting the parameters you want.
Have you ever wanted to lead a horde of Chaos Daemons, facing the servants of the Imperium? Or maybe you'd like to lead a new massive Waaaagh! and fight a series of battles against, well, anyone who would put up a good fight? Now you can!
You choose which faction you want to lead (you can only choose from factions you have access too via DLC etc…) and who you want to fight against. There are other variables such as difficulty, and how many battles in total – 20 being the maximum.
The update also introduces an Ironman mode, which essentially means your units will die permanently if they are destroyed in a battle. They also won’t have their health replenished between missions. Will be interesting to see how this plays out as support abilities such as healing, or vehicle repair aren’t massively prevalent in the game, so I wonder if this will create a niche that can’t be filled.
Sanctus Reach just so happens to be one of our favourite turn-based strategy games. You should check out the others.
Some of the Steam comments are golden:
Loyal Viggo2 hours ago
@Alberto. Thank you for still working on this game. The Emperor is pleased, but not as pleased as if you had achievements in the game.
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I was setting one up in the LP subforum, with custom Codex names, but I stopped because it had just been released and I wanted more polish before I'd try something like that. The drab colors were mad annoying. And not being able to see "hp" without mousing over, though I don't think they managed to be able to do that.
Game is fine, was wating for some quality of life changes, polishing aspects here and there.
How does this compare to Gothic Armada 2?
Kinda have the 40k itch again, and both games are cheap right now, but only have a mediocre reception in their threads.
The games are at 7€ and 8€ right now, are they worth that much? And did anyone play that new sandbox campaign?
Sanctus Reach is good, but brought down by puzzling design decisions:
How does this compare to Gothic Armada 2?
Kinda have the 40k itch again, and both games are cheap right now, but only have a mediocre reception in their threads.
The games are at 7€ and 8€ right now, are they worth that much? And did anyone play that new sandbox campaign?
You only have access to a small subset of your unit roster each mission.
You don't even know which unit is core, and which is only available for a given mission.
So basically, you have access to 1/3rd of your core units each mission (not randomized), and you won't know which beforehand, which leads to a strong disconnect with your units compared to Steel Panthers, Final Liberation, or Panzer General.
That AI is much better than in Final Liberation, and the campaign is not as easily abusable (as the opposing force has the same budget as your deployed units, casualties don't matter at all in FLIB. I guess it is better than in Steel Panthers, where in the grand campaign, you would first face Tanks, then not anymore after you pummeled the enemy force a few times, leading to super interesting battles of Tiger Tanks hunting down APC because the opposing side could never recover from its casualties).
But despite all of its flaws, Final Liberation campaign is still much better, because you have a much greater control on the units deployed, and choosing where to attack is a decision (in Sanctus Reach, it will only change the order of the battles you will have to fight. Given that when you have 3 choiches, they will involve 3 different subsets of units, the order you play them is meaningless).
But most of the gameplay issues have been ironed out, so the core tactical combat is still solid.
No idea about Gothic Armada 2.
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