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Warren Spector's Soapbox Thread

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You mean Ken Levine.
You mean Charile Kelly in a jew costume.

What I am saying is, I wish we
would spend a little bit less time on combat AI and a little bit more on non-combat AI—on creating characters you can bond with on an emotional level
One, seriously fuck you spector for even insinuating that devs bother to make combat AI these days. Secondly they those characters exist, they're called waifus, and they're flat characters made to pander to ugly lonely virgins who will die alone.

Also didn't this fuck say that chainsaw lolipop is a game shouldn't been made, and by that he didn't mean because he thought gameplay was shit either. Since he's drank the SJW koolaid makes that he wouldn't know about waifus since SJWs hate japan.
 
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LESS T_T

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Codex 2014
An interview with a North Carolina newspaper: http://www.indyweek.com/indyweek/vi...ose-in-his-virtual-worlds/Content?oid=5018594

Video Game Design Titan Warren Spector Gives Players the Power to Choose in His Virtual Worlds

Research Triangle Park is a stronghold of the video game industry, so it's apt that Raleigh is home to the East Coast Game Conference, one of the largest industry gatherings on the Eastern Seaboard. Though the top-priced passes, talks, and tutorials, whether they're master classes on 3-D graphics or primers on starting an indie studio, are geared toward industry professionals, there are also affordable community-day passes (April 19, $25) and individual tickets to events of wider interest—particularly, as the Oculus Rift lands on consumers' faces, the VR Summit (April 22, $49).

For its keynote speaker in its eighth year, ECGC landed no less a legend than Warren Spector (April 20, 2 p.m.), a pillar—and often, a sharp critic—of game design who is known for artful, choice-rich role-playing-games like Ultima and Deus Ex. Spector, currently the studio director of OtherSide Entertainment, recently told the INDY about the transformation of the industry during his three-decade career and the "unique combination of art and science" that is creating a virtual world countless players can make their own.

INDY: You've said that your organizing principle is that player style matters. What does that mean, and how have you put it into practice in your games?

WARREN SPECTOR: It's pretty simple, really. For me, there's almost a moral imperative to do with a medium what it can do that no other medium can do. That means empowering players to "share authorship" in the telling of a story. It's sort of like Dungeons & Dragons, where there's a dungeon master who creates the bare bones of a story, with players deciding for themselves how to interact with those bones to put some meat on them. The resulting story isn't the one the dungeon master wants to tell, and it isn't the story the players want to tell; it's a combination of the two.

The same thing works—and seems essential—in video games. Sadly, in most video games, we provide the illusion that players have some control over the narrative, but it really is an illusion. In my games, I try to make it more than illusory. For example, in Deus Ex, the team created an overarching story, but the minute-to-minute belonged to each player. You could fight your way past problems, if you wanted. You could sneak past problems. You could ignore entire missions. Same thing in Disney Epic Mickey: you could get through that game erasing everything in the environment or painting in the missing bits. In both cases, the game took note of what you were doing, and the low-level narrative changed accordingly. Every player ended those games having had a unique experience, unlike any other player's.

You're the director of the Denius-Sams Gaming Academy at the University of TexasAustin. How has that changed your approach to making games, if at all?

Teaching has changed my thinking about game development in pretty profound ways. The most important thing I learned is that the world of games has changed pretty radically in the three years I spent at UT. The students, through their questions, comments, and attitudes, and even through the games they played, made it clear they were going to enter a world radically different than the one I lived in for my thirty years as a developer.

Specifically, today, the importance of data in design is undeniable—knowing what players think and do is critical in a way it never used to be. The whole idea of games as a service, rather than as a "fire and forget" business, is new to me, and I'm really looking forward to exploring that. Digital distribution and social media have changed the way in which developers relate to the audience. And rising costs on the mainstream big-budget side make indie games look more and more appealing. I hope there's something in the middle—call it "Triple-I," maybe—I'd like to try.

Oh, and working with the twenty students in Austin reminded me how much you can get done with a small, dedicated, talented team. I don't see myself running a studio of 200 or more any time soon! Been there, done that, don't want to do it again.

Do you see game design as creative, technical, a bit of both, or something else entirely?

Video games are a unique combination of art and science. If creativity wasn't a driving force—maybethe driving force—I wouldn't be making games. But it's important to remember that we're making software. One of the things I love most about making games is how collaborative and interdisciplinary it is. You need designers, artists, programmers, audio folks, testers. And all of those disciplines, which speak different languages and think differently, have to work together like a well-oiled machine.

One theme that runs through almost all of your titles is the idea of choice. What are some ways you've explored that over the years?

It's funny, everyone thinks the games I've worked on are about player choice. That's true, to an extent, but they're really about something a little different. Choice without consequence is meaningless. The game has to notice and respond to player choices or you're just spending time and money for nothing. And once the consequences are revealed, there has to be a chance to recover. In other words, if you go into a situation guns blazing and you don't like the result of that choice, the game has to allow you to settle things down and avoid a perpetual combat situation. I'm actually going to be speaking about this at ECGC.

Both Deus Ex and System Shock were influenced by dystopian ideas. Do you think any of that will wind its way into System Shock 3?

I don't want to give away too much about the new System Shock game, but I will say I don't see conspiracy theories playing too big a role. I'm more interested these days in things like corporate power and influence, and the seemingly inevitable singularity—when machines become as smart or smarter than humans. I'm pretty sure we'll be exploring those things.

You've often been a vocal critic of the game industry and the big, loud, stupid, Michael Bay-esque titles that define the medium in the eyes of many. Who do you think is making the most exciting games right now?

Well, I have to confess a real fondness for the stuff Telltale's making. They may be choose-your-own-adventures with pretty pictures, but I find them really compelling, if not terribly indicative of where I think games should go as an art form. I really don't see much that's new and exciting in the Triple-A space. Most big-budget blockbusters seem like the same old games we've been playing for years, just with prettier pictures. Thankfully, there's all sorts of interesting stuff happening on the indie side of things. I'm hoping Otherside can kind of bridge the gap between Triple-A and indie, and innovate a bit in what might appear to be traditional genres.

Game culture is often rightly derided for sexism and racism. Even so, it has made great strides over the last thirty years. In what ways do you think it has and hasn't changed?

I think you have to really stretch the idea of "great strides" to feel really good about where we are, culturally speaking, in game development and in the games themselves. It's still noteworthy when a game features a female protagonist, or a significant character of color, or someone my age! (I'm sixty.) And in game development, it's kind of the same thing. We'll know we've made it when it's no longer noteworthy that we have a female programmer on a team, or an artist who isn't a twenty-something white guy.
 

LESS T_T

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Codex 2014


http://www.gamersnexus.net/gg/2396-warren-spector-on-origin-system-shock-3-more

Some highlights from the interview with Warren Spector are transcribed below. This interview with Richard Garriott on the “Origin of MMORPGs (& Origin Systems)” is also worth a watch, if the story and history spark curiosity.

When asked about what it was like to work at Origin Systems at the height of its day, Spector recalled:

“Origin was an amazing place. I signed-on there and thought I was going to teach all those guys what interactivity was all about because I came from tabletop role-playing, and it took me about two weeks to realize I knew nothing. The most amazing thing about it was […] we actually thought we were going to change the world. We were doing things that no one else was doing – games that had an ethical dimension, or cinematic qualities, or the first real-time 3D, first-person, fully texture-mapped world anyone had ever seen. It's crazy what we were doing. I don't want to say that Origin changed the world, but if you look around, games certainly have – and I think we were a little part of that.”

We later asked what some of the biggest takeaways were from Origin, or where critical learning points occurred along the way:

“The biggest thing I learned was that games don't have to be about killing stuff […] Ultima IV was about virtue and what's right or wrong. That's one of the main reasons I wanted to work on Ultima for Richard Garriott. We really did try and do things that other people weren't doing. I've got a philosophy that we're still a medium in progress and every game should have something that no one in the world has seen or done before. That was never really expressed at Origin, but it was definitely a part of our ethos. It was pretty amazing. I thought I was going to retire from the place and get the gold watch and everything – but that's not the way the game industry works, unfortunately.”

Spector then threw-in a story recounting the overall atmosphere and the bleeding edge nature of Origin:

“I'll tell you a story. I was working on Ultima VI and I was watching one of the testers play one day. He was in a place in the game where you needed a magic spell to succeed to keep going; it was a place where there was a portcullis between you and a lever that would open the portcullis. He came up on one side and he didn't have the telekinesis spell necessary to flip the lever, so I was sitting there going, 'you're screwed buddy – you're not making any progress now.' What he did was – he had a character in his party named 'Sherry the Mouse' – and the portcullis was simulated just deeply enough that there was a gap at the bottom, and he had Sherry the Mouse go under the portcullis, go to the lever, and flip the lever, raising the portcullis. That was a solution to a problem that Richard and I didn't plan. I fell on the floor […] That kind of thing happened all the time there. Nobody knew what they were doing – we were making stuff up as we went along. Creating genres and advancing the state of the art and role-playing.”

ECGC Keynote Highlights

At his keynote prior to the interview, Spector spoke on “Narrative Traps” within gaming. The traps described included jailing a game completely to a pre-defined narrative structure, where Spector went into detail on different types of games.

One game type saw definition as “rollercoaster games” – those which look complex at the surface but, when straightened out, are really just a straight line (linear). Another set of games belonged to “branching narrative” categories, where each narrative element is defined by the designers. Another, a “hybrid of rollercoaster and sandbox” games, was described as housing the likes of Deus Ex and Bioware titles. The narrative arc of this type of game remains owned by the designer, but “minute-to-minute play belongs entirely to the player” – a sharing of authorship between player and developer, creating a string of sandboxes.

The main point of it all, though, was that games “aren't about choice.”

Choice is watered-down for a few reasons, according to Spector, but one is that “the medium demands choice for the sake of choice,” and that developers “often stop there.” Spector wants to see more thought put into the decision points in games, and hopes to see games move away from binary, metered choices that often lean toward either “good” or “bad/evil.” Ignoring the save game conundrum, choice is also instantly negated by being largely free of consequence. If the consequence is too easily recovered from (guards go back to a pre-alert state too easily), then the choice feels almost patronizing to the player; if it is too difficult to recover from (every guard in the city is now chasing your stealthy rogue), the game is no longer being played in a style the player consciously selected.

These are difficult problems that didn't necessarily have answers in the talk, but were posed more as thinking points for budding developers and enthusiastic gamers. Warren Spector's blog offers more insighton this.

Apparently his ECGC talk was re-telling of this blog post: https://warrenspector.wordpress.com/2015/08/08/another-narrative-fallacy-its-all-about-choice/
 

LESS T_T

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http://www.gameinformer.com/b/news/...pes-to-recover-unreleased-ip-from-disney.aspx

Developer Warren Spector Hopes To Recover Unreleased IP From Disney

After the recent news of Disney Interactive Studios' discontinuation of the Infinity series, and Avalanche Software shuttering on May 10, developer Warren Spector, best known for Ion Storm's Deus Ex, is showing concern about losing rights to an IP he worked on at Junction Point Studios.

Junction Point Studios, headed by Spector, was a studio acquired by Disney Interactive. This means any game Spector created at Junction Point remains legally owned by Disney. One of the IPs, potentially among others, is Necessary Evil, a game that was planned to be a Deus Ex spiritual successor in a near-future setting. Spector wrote on Twitter, "Necessary Evil was one of the IP I signed over to Disney as part of the Junction Point acquisition." Junction Point Studios was behind the first two Epic Mickey games. You can view the rest of his tweets below:





With Disney in control of Spector's concepts, it seems he's hoping to work out an arrangement in which Disney transfers them back at a modest fee.

Other instances of creators who sought to regain control over their IPs include Patrice Désilets and Tim Schafer. After being laid off, Désilets sued Ubisoft when he lost his rights to his IP 1666: Amsterdam. Désilets has since been returned his rights to the game outside of court. Schafer and his studio Double Fine similarly regained IP rights to Costume Quest and Stacking, after those games were acquired by Nordic Games Publishing in the THQ auction in 2013. Situations like this can be tricky, but these two cases show that sometimes creator requests can eventually have positive resolutions.

We've reached out to Disney for further comment, and will update this article if and when we hear back. Outside of trying to regain his IP, Spector is entering his last week as director at the Denius-Sams Gaming Academy at the University of Texas, and is working on System Shock 3. You can find out more about Spector's unreleased IP in our podcast interview with him from last year.
 
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Well this is a man that thinks the NRA's power comes from corporate money, not from the political equivalent of bethesda fanboys, single issue voters. Not exactly the brightest tool in the shed.
 

J1M

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Well this is a man that thinks the NRA's power comes from corporate money, not from the political equivalent of bethesda fanboys, single issue voters. Not exactly the brightest tool in the shed.
B-b-but Warren single-handedly programmed Deus Ex!
 

Zep Zepo

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If Warren Spector was one of the 7 dwarfs , he'd be Dopey (Or Sleepy).

Zep--
 

Cassar

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^ He's confirming at 8:30 that Underworld and System Shock 3 are both multiplatform games. "the company i work for today is putting a great deal of effort into ensurring that PC VERSIONS of Ascendant and SS3 offer teriffic PC gameplay" Damn shame, but expected, unfortunatelly. So both of them will be tuned for gamepad play and design.
 

Infinitron

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Codex Year of the Donut Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
They've said they're not against console ports, but I don't think OtherSide have the resources now to think about a multiplatform release for UA. System Shock 3 could be a different story, though.
 
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Cassar

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Even if they're not gonna do a simultaneous release now, they will design and do concepts based on how well they WILL work for gamepads and couch play. They'll do the work now based on how easy and doable will be to translate for controllers later. They're not gonna go crazy now on PC with M/KB and then wake up later that they cant implement all of that on pads. We'll never now how many ideeas, concepts, gameplay systems are removed or altered because they wouldn't work on pads. Just thinking how many stuff had to be removed from the original Deus Ex so it can play on pads. Now, they're doing it the opposite way.
 

Infinitron

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Codex Year of the Donut Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
Even if they're not gonna do a simultaneous release now, they will design and do concepts based on how well they WILL work for gamepads and couch play. They'll do the work now based on how easy and doable will be to translate for controllers later. They're not gonna go crazy now on PC with M/KB and then wake up later that they cant implement all of that on pads. We'll never now how many ideeas, concepts, gameplay systems are removed or altered because they wouldn't work on pads. Just thinking how many stuff had to be removed from the original Deus Ex so it can play on pads. Now, they're doing it the opposite way.

Right now Ascendant already has a spellcasting interface that doesn't really translate that well to gamepads, so we'll see.

But with next-gen consoles, I'm actually not sure there's really all that much to be lost with first person action-RPGs anymore. They can handle the larger maps now.
 

J1M

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"Developers like me had no choice but to make console games."

Translation: "I was a greedy asshole who had no loyalty to those that put me in a position of strength."

But yeah, it's too bad about Blizzard and Riot and Valve having to go out of business for spending those days working on PC games.
 

Infinitron

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Not his call to make if he wanted to work on Thief and Deus Ex, though.
 

J1M

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Not his call to make if he wanted to work on Thief and Deus Ex, though.
He was talking about when he sold out and took the contract to make Epic Mickey.

Also, as studio director it was absolutely his call to make those games with console as lead SKU. Someone with backbone could have decided to make a proper Deus Ex sequel and then chop up the levels later for console.
 

LESS T_T

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Codex 2014


Austin gaming bigwigs: Eric Peterson, Gordon Walton, Starr Long, Kevin Gliner, Raphael Colantonio, Warren Spector.
 

DosBuster

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Not his call to make if he wanted to work on Thief and Deus Ex, though.
He was talking about when he sold out and took the contract to make Epic Mickey.

Also, as studio director it was absolutely his call to make those games with console as lead SKU. Someone with backbone could have decided to make a proper Deus Ex sequel and then chop up the levels later for console.

Well, no, Studio Director's don't fund games out of their own pocket. Investors/publishers want a return on what they put in, to them consoles help make the investment safer, they don't care about the dumbing-down of games at all. The only way to make them care would be if console games suddenly stopped selling and market research indicated dumbing-down as the cause.

For those who accuse Warren Spector of "selling out", how is he supposed to make a game with no money?
 

J1M

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By leveraging his fame and past success to ensure his funding deals provide him enough leverage to actually make a quality product.

He loves to play the role of industry leader at GDC and when it is time to do marketing. He should have been more of a leader when that hypothetical accountant told him to disregard the company's existing customers.
 

Infinitron

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Codex Year of the Donut Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
My recollection is that Epic Mickey was criticized for having camera problems. Still sold enough to get a sequel, which was what really tanked and resulted in the immediate closure of the developer.

But really, I suspect the main problem is that nobody actually wanted a Mickey Mouse game.
 

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