First i would like to start and say that i am not a robot, and not very impressed by people trolling the fuck out of this topic like they are fallen angels or something, in a overly dramatic and emotional way.
Since this here is a post in the 'what to avoid' topic i will try to stick on topic instead of heavenly defending what I think is the right choice for the game, as it should be somewhat based on common sense and what is 'fun'. And if you read the book 'a theorie of fun' by ralph koster i think is his name (which is guaranteed to be in every game designers and developers bookcase unless they are currently aether reading or referencing it.) states that fun is mostly based on how a player is challenged, and outlines very simply a high and a low bar which in between gameplay needs to occur, because over the high bar is to frustrating (because the game is to hard) and under the low bar in the long term is boring (because its to easy and the feeling of reward is lost), like pretty much in the same way that probably don't get the same kick out of tying your shoelaces then when you where younger and just learned (but if you do good on you
, we can probably be friends). Because you master certain elements in a game therefore the game has to gradually be more difficult in order for the player not to get bored, BUT also not TO difficult because then the player get frustrated (although i think brian knows that games now a days almost play themselves and this bar is never really pushed far enough for the player to experience completely new ways of growing their ability's as a person and obtaining new highs that they did not envision possible, 'wow, this game really SURPRISED me and was SUPERDUPER
fun).
In conclusion you can say that if the player is always in between these lines then the game will always be challenging and interesting and rewarding, even if the reward is not what you where hoping for then you do get something out of it AKA a response from the other person on something you have said in dialog.
The line btw looks like this and they call it 'flow' when the game is good enough that the player can stay between it:
full image:
http://www.gamecareerguide.com/db_area/images/item_images/081014/081014_whyplay_flow.jpg
If the game is not good enough and 'some element' is lacking because it has not been fleshed out right AKA the interaction system
, then it breaks 'flow' meaning a nice gliding gameplay experience and funny feeling in your tummy from playing trough a seamless cool experience.
Seeing how the dialog system is inherently part of the game, then i don't see why it should not obey by the rules of flow? (ask a dev maybe for their explanation? Feel free to comment).
If you don't get this then you should read the book first, because it explains some necessary issues that you need to understand about game psychology aka ludology, and maybe as a more intermediate version read 'the rules of play' by katey salen and eric zimmerman, i think chapter 4 where they further explain the concept of flow, when a player enters the state of mind where she is constantly anticipating new situations and learning to adapt in such a way that the brain picks up on challenges quick enough that the players brain actually rewards the player for keeping up with the pace.
Obviusly this is based on real life where your brain would reward you for picking up on a survival skill therefore meaning you could have a bigger chance of continuing your bloodline, which might seem distant from current day RPG dialog system but i think its not because:
I understand the characters are blank slates from the beginning of the game with no other identity then that they are 'rangers' with a 'kill the slavers, save the cheerleader, save the world' type of mentality/drive like FA1/2 had 'get the gecko, save the village', 'go find the waterchip because YOU are the most irritating to the overseer' reasons of sending you on your way.
However once they get into that world and start interacting with people, then i assume that there would be some clever response or dialog option that sarcastically would disapprove of the type of attitude of kathy's over dramatized savior complex and that i could vocally kick her in the nuts, and that these options COULD be somehow related to some attribute/xp of the rangers in my squad, but would NOT HAVE TO BE, because its simply pre-scripted dialog like in fallout and its fun to read those things and like another poster mentioned you can also laugh about what you COULD have said but not necessarily chose it this first round (AN ACTUAL BIG RE-PLAYABILITY CONTRIBUTOR). Based on my response whether i calm her, remain neutral, fire her up or insult her (if my intelligence is high enough) THEN SHE WOULD CHOOSE whether she would calm down, keep wining, join your party to 'help' (help kathy help! durrgh?), send you out of the room to start quest without the option of talking to math first OR if really pushed it, attack you and/or kick you BACK in the nuts (funny fallout dialog response with one of the chars on the ground in the first round of combat) out of the building and make sure you don't come back, you know rightuess woman can be sometimes right? . Making you take the back door to still free those people if you choose to do so, but can also to completely ignore the ag center from now on and to really DO have it squashed like a grape
in the long term. OPTIONS, re-playability guys!
I think its a nice try but a game that is like a prototype for relying on in-game typing has yet completely failed! (facaad) (which is like the only game mechanic there is, typing, THAT is the game) I played it again yesterday and its completely illogical to my natural responses, I have to give IT space and therefore it insults my intelligence more then it challenges me (and I'm not even that clever for real, i just like rambling), based on my reply's that those characters in that game are have illogical behavior and drama complexes, (stated in a very simple way, ' your behavior is illogical because you over dramatize' or other BASIC critiques like stop drinking when you are around me) the characters do not respond AT ALL, they just stand there and stare at me blank, and then whine some more about their marriage, after 10 minutes of frustration and continually not reacting to their drama but trying connect via common sense they completely ignore me and stare in a glazy way at me. I then proceed to say that 'fuck you, I'm not a robot and i matter goddamit!', and of course they kick me out of the apartment. From a higher perspective i can understand the joke, and that i'm a guy behind the computer and they ARE robots and i insult their game world woops, More the point that i'm trying to make is: MAKE INTERESTING DIALOG NOT dependent ON IF i hit and type correctly the right triggerterm or not. I would seriously BURN IT TO THE GROUND! 'internet troll violently burns the developers unfinished mechanic down to the ground with his rusty acer aspire one creating some serious pain! as it falls down the beast shrivels up in agony and the smell is foul like burning a fat greasy witch tied to a hair spray infected X-mas tree with road kill decorations hanging from it and the treetopper head of her dead first born, the horrid stench of FAIL follows you while you flee the scene and feel noxious in the contrast of fresh cold air in the night, you are glad that only your boots are touched by this now undeveloped filth, even though your stomach contents are still in battle to leave your body it feels somehow ironic as your boot feels like the right place for this mechanic . BAM!
hehe,
I want to be able to tell people to cut of their little left pinky or i won't help them, its not gonna happen or be apparent when only one word is my option AND i means that i can basically NEVER develop my own perception of how my party would act (or follow a BRANCH of the supposed TREE?)(which only happens in my head for pure entertainment AS THE GAME WOULD STILL ONLY REGISTER MY ACTUAL ACTIONS, and maybe some characters would strongly dislike me because masturbating is now a 'little' bit less of a physical sensation
, i saved your daughter dude, your pinky was worth it right
? Or not? Do you want to TALK about it? (option to ducktape back on his pinkey... out of me making him feel guilty for complaining, because the sarcastic cynical sadistic dickhead trait is present in ONE of my rangers
.
I think maybe the game is broken still and a bug wont allow characters to have more then a measured intelligence of 3? (durgh 1 word responses? or hugging lynett because you cant speak like i read on a playtrough somewhere
).
Also the BURN the idiot who invented the over obvious dummy (strength)(good)(evil) options of FA3, like i mentioned I'm not a robot and YOU developers said that there would be massive gray zones and not always the apparent right choice, how is 'help' 'rangers' or 'lack' going to be sufficient to make up for that claim? If you want your gamers to be that unchallenged and unintelligent then why not just implement a 'casual' feature for the dumb down 'dummy proof ' type of player, i think the human mind in entitle to more then just robotic play troughs, its not really a game if its just a interactive movie ('its just wrong' (FA2) even if its just the dialog system).
I think the options should be made available by the rangers of your squad and their ability's + standard txt for that NPC (even though its not one char like in fallout i think you can get away with it, and its a valid compromise, instead of having 0 original txt for the sake of integration, its not really a dialog if i don't say anything, even if that one word is my only option... You could explore ranger guys specific txt, but that would take away from blank slate customizable characters or not? Ideas?).
However I DO NOT LIKE as as it seems a lot of others with me the 'shopping list' type of speech option, my opp is to try to make it this way:
- HAVE FA1/2 dialog, with many options, and certain options crossed out/added based on XP/skill/attribute and in-game knowledge (talked to char X, visited place Y, made a choice to impersonate NPC Z ect).
- Have the option to mention triggerterms (rumors and additional info) from the journal, to get extra information/supplies and or BONUSES like ammo or 'help'
- Have the option to create triggerterms dynamically (like you did with the typing option), with the only addition of also being able to turn it into a macro meaning you don't have to retype all the time ect.
(which you should be able to make macro's really instead of retype everything all the time).
Having a 'shopping list' is tedious and boring, why have the option to click at all if all the responses of the NPC there are always going to be the same, i would suggest then not giving the option to click in dialog then.
I do like the idea of having the option to HAIL certain topics morrowind style from my journal or type in random comments IN ADDITION to a INTELLIGENT DIALOG SYSTEM. Heck i even suggested this myself in a different topic about how you should be able to pinpoint terms from certain journal entry's. (its a good SEPERATE things, but sorry guys its not a good replacement for the awesome 'kick-your-butt' in dialog options of FA1/2). Otherwise the dialog even though more more intelligent and better would just come out like that one fallout game that was done for xbox1 (don't look it up, I'm serious its not worth it, big fallout 1/2 fan speaking, there is a reason you never found out now it exist
).
Again I'm not a robot and i think about things/like creative options, and to not leave you a complete trainwreck i would like to say that i absolutely LOVE the game
, wow was my first impression and i think you absolutely NAILED the combat, it looks awesome and intelligent and i would love to see fights with bigger groups, it appears to be rather speedy which is a good thing and maybe with really big battles you have something that works in phases? The graphics are awesome and the world looks alive and detailed, its has definitely been worth the development money.
Finally i do have to say (coming back to koster and ludologic) and the way the dialog works now is NOT FUN, there is not a challenge and its not apparent enough what you clicking a button with 1 word on it will lead to (and its UNACCEPTABLE to fix this the FA3 a
to direct obvious boring option), b
to boring direct obvious option), c
to obvious direct boring option) way, sorry you are going to have to come up with something better), you should be able to somehow have the appearance of playing with the NPC's mind a bit (gamble, bluff, take a risk, RISK IS FUN) and/or make it apparent what your intentions are (help, negotiate, pledge your life and honor, get married in return ect) and be able to somehow anticipate a 'little' bit the others chars response or be SURPRISED.
like that guy taking his pinky and really doing it out a harsh 'i'm fucked if i don't make it' 'WASTELAND' mentality!
Hope you have fun reading my piece and it helps you in some way,
groetjes,
BaBAMski!
P.s. EDIT: ow yeah i wanted to add that i like 'clicking' keep the gameplay nice and fast, slows me down having to type 'all the time' and use the keyboard for other things then shortcuts ect
