Wasteland Wasteland 2 Romance State of Decay Style

[RK47]

Nice troll alt.

 

[I'm Big Into Anal]

Romance DLC only $19.99!

for example ^

you could dissect this one post in a hundred words easy, hell, even balloon it out into a serious discussion about the role capitalism and consumer choice affects game design and you have one semesters worth of essay wank right there.

 

[Turan Khan]

Thanks Poos for upholding this discussion and calling me to task. I appreciate that.

Well, objectively, ALL responders here, now counting 9 RPG Codex members with lukewarm negative to strongly negative responses to this idea. Again a poll or some quantitative measure would capture this most statistically correct. So I'm not adding any subjectivity here. I've just tallied the negative and positive-sounding responses. The subjectivity is still in the category, thus better to have a quantity like a poll, Yes or No, Binary or a multiple choice.

While I won't buy a Romance DLC... I'd buy a Squad Morale or Squad Relationships DLC in a heartbeat.

I'd also buy a Ranger Basebuilding DLC where I can upgrade buildings and defenses of the base, task workers, keep some counselors to uphold organization morale, etc. I just want more interactivity and functionality that I think squad morale and managing factors that affect squad morale would provide. It's admittedly more busywork, but it's more immersive, at least for me. Interestingly, now on the official forum InXile forum, I'm getting some support for this idea as a middling ground between full-blown BG romances and more Squad Morale relationship management.

 

[I'm Big Into Anal]

well that sounds great turan; looks like you have the makings of at least a 'handle' on the sites overall opinion

good luck

 

[Turan Khan]

Thanks Poos. Take care!

Worst-case scenario, I'm just going to make a Squad Morale mod with a Romantic component mainly for myself and post it to whoever else agrees with me and enjoys such a system. :D

 

[FuriousGamer87]

Based on the atmosphere that the game try to convene through the writing, romance would be VERY VERY out of place in this game.
Here's a nice suggestion, just go and play some Japanese eroges to get your muh waifu fix.
The products are already made so you don't have to waste time to convince people of anything.

 

[Turan Khan]

Thanks for your constructive criticism, FuriousGamer87, one of the first, after Poos.

I do agree with you that romance is VERY out of place, but not COMPLETELY non-existent. There are strong hints that Angela Deth and Ace were romantically involved. There. Done.

Romance in post-apocalyptic scenario whether post-nuclear or post-zombie must be much tougher and much more prone to fail or not even show up, but it shouldn't not exist at all, either.

Besides, now my mind is thinking more along not ROMANTIC but RELATIONSHIP Squad Morale trajectories. For example, say you have a NPC who was a former Red Skorpion or some other gang. Say, you could have diplomatically resolved a gang situation but you opted to just shoot up everyone. This former-gang member might increase in his stat for Gang Affiliation and ultimately if you willy-nilly undiplomatically kill gangs without seeking another solution one too many times, this NPC might even betray you and turn sides or just plain leave. So this member's Squad Morale Relationship status would go from Friend to Neutral to Betrayer or Deserter.

Another idea is for example, a good friend but if you don't share in spoils and only equip yourself with the better similar weapon everytime, this good friend may become a Rival, still on your team, but more prone to make "accidental" Friendly Fire during combat.

It's sort of like the system where some NPCs would leave if you do a crime or open up locks and doors where you shouldn't. For example, I really liked where one NPC here commented that I really shouldn't be in this room because it was somebody else's room they respected. I want more of that, but I also want THAT to have more of a gameplay impact as well, instead of just a text mention.

 

[I'm Big Into Anal]

turan have you tried sunless sea

apparently you can gay things up like theres no tomorrow

 

[agentorange]

State of Decay had a romance system? I didn't notice it at all when I played the game, which I suppose makes it the best romance system in a game to date.

As I've said before in every discussion about "romance" systems in games, once you start talking about them as a bullet pointed mechanical feature you are already on the path to disgusting alien failure.

Edit: You could have the same sort of system without the creepy detached alieness of "romance" with a behavioral system like JA2 had; I don't get why more games don't copy what JA2 did in this regard - Dead State seems to be doing something similar, which is nice. Why not have high intelligence, stable characters get pissed off and have their morale decay when having to deal with stupid characters who panic during a fight, or a strong warrior type character not liking the weak and arrogant wizard, or have high agility characters dislike having to wait around for slow characters (low agility). Not sure why I started talking about it in a fantasy context, but it would work the same in a post-apocalyptic context.

In most party based games it really doesn't make sense that people with such dissimilar backgrounds and characteristics would get along so well. In the film Predator you have guys who are skilled in specific areas of combat, but they are still all high trained, strong, cunning soldiers who share a background, which is why they get along (but still get almost entirely wiped out) - and why having Dillon introduced into the party rubs them the wrong way, because he is slightly out of shape and has ulterior motives, even though Dillon is far more similar to them than a D&D wizard is to a warrior; introducing some character who can barely carry a gun, can't run more than 50 feet without getting winded, BUT IS AN EXPERT ON QUANTUM NEUTRINO THEORY, would totally fuck up the team dynamic.

 

[Turan Khan]

Poos, why are you insinuating that I'm homosexual? By my faith, I cannot be. But I'm a diehard romantic and either mod games to my liking to have my future wife in it or not. It helps me stave off temptation and has been doing so for 27 years. Soon, I'm about to marry and I just need to hold out for some months longer. Porn and masturbation is out of hand and so romance in games is the closest that I as a Muslim can come to putting myself in a relationship situation with a woman, before marriage.

agentorange

Exactly! Finally SOMEBODY gets it. There is an almost hidden MINIMALIST romance system... the best kind since you have to be KEEN to notice it, but JUST enough to cover this aspect.

Exactly again... not all characters would mesh well... characters prize different values... a foolhardy brave brawler SHOULD butt heads with a cowardly sniper for example, or at least deride jokes at the other's expense, until one or the other snaps. It's just good ROLEPLAYING design.

So basically relationship statuses, modifiers, or effects that try to capture this JaggedAlliance 2 and other similar games Squad Morale or Squad Relationship Dynamics... with romantic connections being just one component. Seriously, I'm not asking much here.

Agentorange, again I agree with you wholeheartedly.

In State of Decay, this romantic bit is ONLY in the main campaign. They developers DID strip it from Breakdown and Lifeline DLC, however even that small Base Morale being affected by romantic relationships was fun for me to see and IMMERSE myself into that world. I mean, look at Walking Dead and Shane-Lorrie-Rick love triangle.... c'mon!

 

[Turan Khan]

Agentorange, how do I Brofist./.. it's basically RPG Codex reputation or rep up?

 

[agentorange]

you have to be a member for a year

 

[Turan Khan]

Oh I see. A vetting system. Smart. Thanks for the Brofist haha. I was giving up on this thread.

So, objectively reasoning deduction from this thread, RPG Codex may be MORE favorable to a Jagged Alliance 2 Squad Morale dynamic system... where romance is just one component, or not even mention it and slip it under the radar, muahahaha.

 

[Severian Silk]

This thread is missing a debate about religion.

 

[Night Goat]

Too obvious, would not be trolled by again.

 

[laclongquan]

Your ideas are good, OP, but your execution is just terrible. Specifically, your baits.

Created characters has THAT? I will remind you that the IMP created guy/gal has no such thing. Or does (s)he? I dont remember. I do remember there's compatibility issues between several pairs of mercenaries in JA2.

A fallout tactic solution is to create a pair of perks, and assigned automatically to rangers.
Leader, who bring benefit to other, Prolly can go with Follower perk. L-F will bring benefit to both.
Loner, who get benefit when there's no one around.

The JA2 solution of assign a matrix of personality to the limited number of rangers has its own merits. But I dont like it, because it limit my choice of recruits..

 

[Turan Khan]

Thank you for your constructive criticism, Iaclongguan. I do ramble and should have formatted my execution to be more understandable and easy to follow. Point taken.

Yes, I like the Leader-Follower combo and the Loner who functions when there are no one around him, suiting either a Sniper or a lone Brawler up front. Hmmm, perhaps that matrix of personality could be developed as the game progresses, so it doesn't limit choice of recruits. Something more evolutionary like an acquired Loner charactieristic if you keep your Sniper all by his or her lonesome all the time?

 

[Disgruntled]

Id be okay with the idea if it was done well and not shoved in your face. I think the issue is that this often attracts a horrific playerbase of.. lets just call em ME3 enthusiasts.
Maybe if it was added alongside the ability to enslave, abuse and cannibalize. Throw in some blatantly racist dialogue options to be safe.

 

[kain30]

keep romances out of my rpgs, please. if you want romance play the sims, or if you want a real one, go to the streets at night, most of them are cheap.

 

[Turan Khan]

Disgruntled
Well if agentorange didn't notice that State of Decay even had a small but keen romance component within a larger system of Base Morale and different/competing/complementary/backstabbing relationships among the survivors/rangers then I'd say that kind of romance system is realistic and not IN YOUR FACE like DA and ME... even BG romances weren't so in your face, they were more optional. I mean with DA 2 they went overboard with characters hitting on you without EVER pressing that dialogue option.

Yes, both good, noble actions but also depraved ones that you have mentioned, cover the full sprectrum of human psychological coping mechanistic response.

kain30
Sims is not romance it's Play-House, very unrealistic one at that.
Streets at night is not romance, it's biological satisfaction.

 

[oneliner]

I like your mod idea, while you are at it can you also make a mod that allow my ranger to wear black leather vest, has white long hair and dual wielding a laser katana ? would be great.

 

[DosBuster]

Great, another meter designed to add more "realism" and "personality".

 

[Turan Khan]

oneliner
Black Leather Vest and White Long Hair looks are already pretty much available, with just one simple retexture. Katana is missing but would make sense easily due to some swords in-game very reminiscent. Laser Katana would even make sense in a game with a Plasma Hammer

DosBuster
Ok you realism purists... Wasteland 2 isn't the most realistic game, in a game where mutated plants, bunnies, honey badgers, (seriously couldn't they come up with more menacing beast enemies? I mean I find bunnies and Honey Badgers cute, hilarious, not menacing AT ALL) disco robots, Plasma Hammers exist, it's already not taking itself TOO seriously.. more seriously than Divniity, but not as seriously as survival horrors or etc.

Also, some ammo types don't match to real-life guns like Bren heavy machine gun's ammo. So the point is Wasteland 2 isn't a very "realistic" game to start with. Even if it were, a Squad Morale or Mechanics would aid and not detriment from the sense of realism and personality.

At present, the squad is lifeless, without any realism or personality. In Jagged Alliance 2, even heck Fallout Tactics even which I hated, I felt more connected to my team, even XCOM did a better job at customizing the team and getting attached to them.

 

[Zorba the Hutt]

Poos, why are you insinuating that I'm homosexual? By my faith, I cannot be. But I'm a diehard romantic and either mod games to my liking to have my future wife in it or not. It helps me stave off temptation and has been doing so for 27 years. Soon, I'm about to marry and I just need to hold out for some months longer. Porn and masturbation is out of hand and so romance in games is the closest that I as a Muslim can come to putting myself in a relationship situation with a woman, before marriage.

Welcome to the Codex, O Muslim man who is saving himself for marriage and would like romance in WL2 to help stave off the temptations of porn and masturbation.

Protip: When designing a trolling persona it can be tempting to tick all the boxes at once. Avoid this temptation at all costs. Remember: subtlety is your friend.

When you've finished discussing romances it would also be interesting to hear your views on Josh Sawyer, women in gaming and how Fallout is overrated.

 

[Turan Khan]

I don't understand why some people think I'm trolling. I'm offering a very MINIMALIST system, one that agentorange, didn't EVEN notice in State of Decay, where there was a romantic or group member dynamic relationship component, unless one looks for it and appreciates it. Agentorange and Iaclongguan get the idea, so I'm not spewing nonsense or troll attempt here.

I am Muslim. I cannot date. Strange enough, but books and games are the only ways that I get an idea of what it is like to be with a woman and future wife. If that's so alien to you that I don't date girls and I don't masturbate or watch porn and that my only solace is books and games until I marry, then I dunno, I'm just being honest and the way I was properly raised and my reality. It's sad that in this day and age this proper way of living is seen as trolling and dishonest. Well, in the Hadith, it was stated that the lifestyle of the Muslimeen is going to be ghurabah, or seem "strange" not normal to others. I guess these Last Days are nearing fast.

I don't know who Josh Sawyer is. Women in gaming or gaming culture or gaming representation ... that's not the topic here at all, so why even cover it? And why does a murder RPG opening always have a girl widower not a guy widower, that's sexist equally to both genders, it's like a cliche-tropic RPG formula.

Fallout isn't overrated. It rightfully earned its accolades, by pushing the boundaries, really making a more gritty, at the time, world. I just don't see Wasteland 2 pushing the same, it was pretty tongue-in-cheek, cresting on its same formula. It's still great for combat and min-maxing squad-builds... but I expected to ROLE PLAY like in Fallout 1 and 2 instead of SQUAD-BUILD PLAY like in Fallout Tactics. And you're all lambasting me for wanting more ROLEPLAY in an RPG, in an RPG Codex forum out of all.

It's NOT like I'm up on Elitist Junkies asking WoW for more RP content when EJ is for chatting about min-maxing builds and talents. See, I'm in the proper channel of forum.