Wasteland Wasteland 3 + Battle of Steeltown and Cult of the Holy Detonation Expansions Thread

[jaekl]

Yes, I've heard it all before but why force the character into my party in the first place if I can immediately discard it? Hoping it'll grow on me if I'm shackled to it for long enough and I'll have a change of heart?? Bah! There's nothing quite as loathsome as a game designer attempting to use salesman-esque manipulations on innocent gamers.

Once you leave the Garden of the Gods, Wesson asks for your help and gives you the choice to keep her as a companion or not.

Game-design-wise, it just made scripting for that one section easier.

Well if all they were trying to do was save time, then game-design-wise it would make scripting for that one section easier if they removed it altogether along with Sandy Cheeks and that could only stand to improve the game and maybe even make it playable. Assuming there wasn't some other cringe shit that would piss me off immediately afterwards (unlikely).

 

[rojay]

Bah!

Humbug!

 

[Roguey]

Well if all they were trying to do was save time, then game-design-wise it would make scripting for that one section easier if they removed it altogether along with Sandy Cheeks and that could only stand to improve the game and maybe even make it playable. Assuming there wasn't some other cringe shit that would piss me off immediately afterwards (unlikely).

It's a load-bearing tutorial area, can't do that.

 

[IHaveHugeNick]

No you don't understand, they need to remove section that sets up the entire plot, because reasons I guess.

 

[jaekl]

Oh right I guess now that I think about it more, it's actually impossible to make an rpg at all without adding the classic reddit cowgirl character and making sure it gets into the player's party at all costs. I don't know why I thought that you could even write a plot without adding that character to your party, I must be high or something.

 

[Old One]

I finished this game recently and mostly enjoyed it, including the gonzo humor.

Angela Deth is really the big problem. She's just so dumb it can't be ignored.

When it was over it felt like the sole reason my group of Rangers had to come to Colorado at all was to finish the job that stupid slattern was supposed to do in the first place.

 

[Drakortha]

I saw Wasteland 3 on sale for $11 so I finally got to try it out.

I'm a few hours in and I tried my best to like it. But this game is trash.

The combat system is a drag. I hate this xcom turn based cover system bullshit. It is repetitive and boring to play. Every encounter feels the same and every time combat begins I wish I could just skip the whole fight. That's how bad it is.

The dialogue with NPC's is like a rusty nail on a chalk board. There's no room here for lengthier text-based dialogue with NPC's to help flesh out the story and give me some deeper narratives I can dive into. Instead, every character you meet is some kind of caricature. It get's old fast.

It doesn't feel like a post apocalypse. There's far too many guns and loot, and it doesn't give me the feeling I'm struggling in this harsh world. It feels more like an action romp than an RPG. And there's far too much 4th wall stuff for my liking. For example; there's these damn cats almost everywhere that you can engage in conversation with. This is the kind of shit I expect from Larian.

If the combat wasn't shit I could probably overlook a lot of it's other flaws. But I can't see myself slogging through this garbage combat for another minute.

 

[GloomFrost]

I saw Wasteland 3 on sale for $11 so I finally got to try it out.

I'm a few hours in and I tried my best to like it. But this game is trash.

The combat system is a drag. I hate this xcom turn based cover system bullshit. It is repetitive and boring to play. Every encounter feels the same and every time combat begins I wish I could just skip the whole fight. That's how bad it is.

The dialogue with NPC's is like a rusty nail on a chalk board. There's no room here for lengthier text-based dialogue with NPC's to help flesh out the story and give me some deeper narratives I can dive into. Instead, every character you meet is some kind of caricature. It get's old fast.

It doesn't feel like a post apocalypse. There's far too many guns and loot, and it doesn't give me the feeling I'm struggling in this harsh world. It feels more like an action romp than an RPG. And there's far too much 4th wall stuff for my liking. For example; there's these damn cats almost everywhere that you can engage in conversation with. This is the kind of shit I expect from Larian.

If the combat wasn't shit I could probably overlook a lot of it's other flaws. But I can't see myself slogging through this garbage combat for another minute.

Well I can tell you that combat is not going to get any better but it will get even more unbalanced and tedious and the writing is going to get sillier and sillier especially when you reach the Bazar and Payasos. So what you could do is drop W3 and give a F:Tactics another go with Equilibrium and Redux mods or try them Russian Fallout mods like Nevada.

 

[Drakortha]

I saw Wasteland 3 on sale for $11 so I finally got to try it out.

I'm a few hours in and I tried my best to like it. But this game is trash.

The combat system is a drag. I hate this xcom turn based cover system bullshit. It is repetitive and boring to play. Every encounter feels the same and every time combat begins I wish I could just skip the whole fight. That's how bad it is.

The dialogue with NPC's is like a rusty nail on a chalk board. There's no room here for lengthier text-based dialogue with NPC's to help flesh out the story and give me some deeper narratives I can dive into. Instead, every character you meet is some kind of caricature. It get's old fast.

It doesn't feel like a post apocalypse. There's far too many guns and loot, and it doesn't give me the feeling I'm struggling in this harsh world. It feels more like an action romp than an RPG. And there's far too much 4th wall stuff for my liking. For example; there's these damn cats almost everywhere that you can engage in conversation with. This is the kind of shit I expect from Larian.

If the combat wasn't shit I could probably overlook a lot of it's other flaws. But I can't see myself slogging through this garbage combat for another minute.

Well I can tell you that combat is not going to get any better but it will get even more unbalanced and tedious and the writing is going to get sillier and sillier especially when you reach the Bazar and Payasos. So what you could do is drop W3 and give a F:Tactics another go with Equilibrium and Redux mods or try them Russian Fallout mods like Nevada.

Thanks, but I don't even need to play F:Tactics with mods. Vanilla tactics was 10x better than W3.

 

[Nikanuur]

Wasteland 3 combat is very good because it allows for tanking, stealth, sniping, cover, in-and-out techniques, combos, various support or items' usage, progression of damage and utilization from skills, and above all, it tends to present various scenarios, bosses, or surprises (oh hello there, Robotic-Reagan mass-melee with the hillarious music playing on top of it, for one) . Far from it being just a trash-mob filler.

The fact that some people profess to hate it doesn't make it bad at all. It only shows that some people hate it, and nothing more.

 

[Drakortha]

All the reasons Fallout: Tactics is better

-UI that isn't made retarded for consoles. All combat actions and buttons are all right in front of you to click on. No need to dig into pie menu's every time you want to do something other than pew pew.
-Stances. Stand, Crouch, and Prone
-AI settings for your squad members. Easily switch between passive, defensive, and aggressive with one button click
-you can switch between real-time, squad turn based, and individual turn based at any time.
-many environments were much more open ended so you could engage from multiple directions. in wastelands 3 you are always inside narrow canyons and compact spaces and are railroaded into using the conveniently placed cover. It's similar encounter design to all those terrible cover-based action shooters from the xbox360 era.

These are just from the top of my head. I haven't played tactics for a few years.

 

[Litmanen]

All the reasons Fallout: Tactics is better [...]

Ok, but while Fallout: Tactics is 95% based on combat and it should be very good at it to be ok, Wasteland 3 is not combat-based. It's part of a broader gameplay.
That doesn't mean combat in Wasteland should be allowed to be bad just because there are also other things. But it doesn't need to be "100% perfect combat or bust".

There is more to it.

 

[Drakortha]

All the reasons Fallout: Tactics is better [...]

Ok, but while Fallout: Tactics is 95% based on combat and it should be very good at it to be ok, Wasteland 3 is not combat-based. It's part of a broader gameplay.
That doesn't mean combat in Wasteland should be allowed to be bad just because there are also other things. But it doesn't need to be "100% perfect combat or bust".

There is more to it.

If the combat wasn't so crap I could get past the other nitpicks.

Also I disagree - Wasteland 3 is definitely more combat based than you're suggesting. The very first moment when you begin the game you are thrown into a combat heavy scenario with huge explosions. It's more combat based than the opening of Fallout 3.

 

[Roguey]

It doesn't feel like a post apocalypse. There's far too many guns and loot, and it doesn't give me the feeling I'm struggling in this harsh world.

The entire premise behind the game is that Colorado is a land of plenty and the guy running things has offered to share his abundance with a struggling Arizona if you do him a solid. It'd be utterly daft to make the game not reflect it.

You can switch between real-time, squad turn based, and individual turn based at any time.

That is not a positive. Line of sight didn't work at all in turn-based, if you turned a corner, the enemies wouldn't show up until your next turn where they'd get a free turn to shoot at you. It was a janky rushed game.

Oh I actually talked about the game in a Wasteland 3 thread before time destroyed my memories, thanks old me.

The writing was Excuse Plot-quality, also not very lore-friendly as I dimly recall. I refused to play in real time, but playing in turn based was flawed because if you turned a corner in turn based mode, the enemies wouldn't actually show up in your line of sight until it was their turn. Additionally, with the map and encounter design for the areas I played, it was easy enough to crawl inch by inch barely taking damage (excepting those line-of-sight moments). I ended up quitting out of boredom midway through the Simpsons bonus level.

 

[Drakortha]

You can switch between real-time, squad turn based, and individual turn based at any time.

That is not a positive. Line of sight didn't work at all in turn-based, if you turned a corner, the enemies wouldn't show up until your next turn where they'd get a free turn to shoot at you. It was a janky rushed game.

So the turn based combat in tactics is shit. Well guess what? You can turn it off.

The turn based combat in Wastelands 3 is also shit but there's no option to opt out of it. That's the problem.

I've no issue with turn based combat. But the way W3 and Xcom does it sucks. I hate the obligatory cover in encounters. It makes every fight feel cookie cutter.

 

[Roguey]

So the turn based combat in tactics is shit. Well guess what? You can turn it off.

I don't play real time tactics games (unless there's a pause).

The turn based combat in Wastelands 3 is also shit, and there's no option to opt out of it. That's the problem.

You can stop playing the game.

I liked the combat though. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Going back to what Beekers said:

Trying to make a game that is both a Jagged Alliance 2-level tactical combat game AND a fully-featured, deep RPG with a complex skill system, tons of dialog and C&C would be a horrible example of feature bloat even if you had an AAA budget. I find WL2's combat challenging and more tactical than most turn-based RPGs I know of, but beating JA2 was never a goal.

But if you expect the ultimate improvement upon Jagged Alliance 2's execution of turn-based combat to come from a full-fledged, deep RPG, you're delusional.

 

[Drakortha]

You can stop playing the game.

I already did!

Now I'm waiting on AtomRPG to come down in price so I can try it. It has to be better than this slop.

 

[Drakortha]

For the record, I never played Jagged Alliance and I didn't go in with expectations. I tried to enjoy W3's combat but I realized it just isn't for me.

 

[Iluvcheezcake]

For the record, I never played Jagged Alliance and I didn't go in with expectations. I tried to enjoy W3's combat but I realized it just isn't for me.

Go play JA2 pronto mister!

 

[OSK]

Now I'm waiting on AtomRPG to come down in price so I can try it. It has to be better than this slop.

ATOM RPG has absolute shit combat. The sequel, surprisingly, finds a way to make it even worse.

 

[Drakortha]

Now I'm waiting on AtomRPG to come down in price so I can try it. It has to be better than this slop.

ATOM RPG has absolute shit combat. The sequel, surprisingly, finds a way to make it even worse.

Something being shit never surprises me.

 

[Froila]

Now I'm waiting on AtomRPG to come down in price so I can try it. It has to be better than this slop.

ATOM RPG has absolute shit combat. The sequel, surprisingly, finds a way to make it even worse.

Something being shit never surprises me.

Nevertheless, despite this and other flaws, atom-games are extremely popular here for some reasons.

 

[OSK]

Nevertheless, despite this and other flaws, atom-games are extremely popular here for some reasons.

It's because RPG Codex is full of Slavs and ATOM RPG is the most Slavic game I've ever played.

To be fair, I did enjoy ATOM RPG despite it's flaws. I didn't enjoy the followup largely because the exploration wasn't nearly as good.

 

[Froila]

Nevertheless, despite this and other flaws, atom-games are extremely popular here for some reasons.

It's because RPG Codex is full of Slavs and ATOM RPG is the most Slavic game I've ever played.

To be fair, I did enjoy ATOM RPG despite it's flaws. I didn't enjoy the followup largely because the exploration wasn't nearly as good.

These games try to ape Fallouts 1&2 in some pseudo-Soviet surroundings (left New Reno for the 2nd game) that's nice and stuff.

But meticulous copying of every aspect of BIS's Fallouts, including combat, encounter design, silly meme-loaded writing of F2, wasn't a smart concept. Original ideas weren't good either.

Despite this I really liked some fairy tale vibes of 1st atom and its feel of adventure. Not many games can boast of that, including Trudograd, sadly, which was more formulaic.

The most ridiculous part of atoms was their world. It shows how postsoviet generations (I think, most of devs were born in the 1980-90s) take Soviet culture and history and what they know about them (not much, tbh). For this only reason I'd recommend to play both games to every scholar who study ex-USSR. Otherwise atoms don't deserve much attention.