We need another game like Alpha Protocol

[FeelTheRads]

Do you want to get cancer on your tumor?

 

[Mexi]

It's a wonky game, but it's enjoyable as hell. C&C is also insane. I killed that cocky SIE bitch as soon as I saw her.

 

[YLD]

Reviving this as I'm well into my first real playthrough (first attempt abandoned early a few years back).

The cause of my terrible first impression remains unchanged: the gameplay is irreparably clunky, broken and unpleasant to play. It doesn't work as a ghost stealth game, it doesn't work as a panther stealth game, it doesn't work as a run-and-gun game. There are a few rebalancing mods but I haven't seen any mod auto-resolving the minigames like in Mass Effect which is going to be my biggest mental block. Add awful boss fights, an irritating UI, and botched M&K controls, and there is just no way to play this and have fun; every enjoyment you will get out of this will have to come from the writing.

Thankfully the game does a great job in that area, Obsidian are playing their strength to the fullest and the amount of choices and consequences is outstanding, I've never seen anything so rich and reactive. Of course I won't know how meaningful or illusory this all is until a hypothetical second playthrough, but considering what happens I don't see how a lot of it could be make-believe, your choices do look like they have a big impact.

Reputation still deserves a mention because it's done in such a gamey way that the writing suffers from it. As far as characters are concerned, an act of cruelty or brutality is as serious as being mean in convos: murdering civilians will get you a -1 from Mina, i.e. exactly the same reaction she had when you forgot her name. Madison physically attacks you and leaves the hideout even though you were ostensibly her ally, because apparently she's dumbfounded that a military guy can be abrupt and a bit of an aloof asshole. Of course she immediately gets captured and murdered, but better that than suffering some rude words, I guess.

Reputation caps at -10/+10 so you can have a character hate your guts simply because you were a meanie Mr Meanie, even though you do all the heavy lifting, take all the risks, and really what you say is completely harmless. What is this, specs ops or high school? Admittedly this is especially true of female characters, so for all I know it's a playful jab at women overreacting to mundane shit with zero gratitude that you're the one paying the bills. There's some genuinely excellent interconnected writing and this childish bullshit constantly gets in the way.

Apart from that it's a very interesting experience and I'm glad I found the courage to try again. Despite the above the writing is the keystone here, otherwise in terms of gameplay there are a thousand games that do everything better.

 

[Sweeper]

Alpha Protocol is up there in terms of C&C. The reactions characters had to your actions was pretty great.
The worst thing about the game wasn't the unpolished, broken combat or the God awful mini games, but the setting.
Spy shit? Fucking espionage? Boring.
Give me Crusader Kings II in RPG format a la Alpha Protocol C&C.
I'd play that.

 

[Chippy]

We need another game like the original Syndicate with Alpha Protocol-like RPG systems.

 

[RRRrrr]

Actually, there are mods that fix the gunplay. Alpha Protocol Improved makes the weapons much more accurate and the crosshair much smaller, making the game play much more normally. Especially for Assault Riffles and Shotguns. If the game had come out with those .ini changes, it would have gotten at least 1-2 points higher in reviews on average.

I can even describe how much better it feels when you crosshair is like this and the weapons actually hit where they are supposed to:

Spoiler

The design decision to make accuracy dependent on the skill points is outdated and never worked well. Bloodlines did the same and it was only to its detriment. Shooting ridiculously inaccurately is simply frustrating gameplay.

 

[J1M]

It was enjoyable to see if I could beat it on my only playthrough without using a gun.

 

[Roguey]

It was enjoyable to see if I could beat it on my only playthrough without using a gun.

Impossible, given tanks, helicopters, and Darcy in the locked tower.

I haven't seen any mod auto-resolving the minigames like in Mass Effect which is going to be my biggest mental block.

Use EMPs, it's what they're for.

 

[J1M]

It was enjoyable to see if I could beat it on my only playthrough without using a gun.

Impossible, given tanks, helicopters, and Darcy in the locked tower.

I haven't seen any mod auto-resolving the minigames like in Mass Effect which is going to be my biggest mental block.

Use EMPs, it's what they're for.

I recall being quite successful with it. Though it was a long time ago.

Are you referring to the tank boss near the start of the game? You can stealth forward and perform a take-down on an important NPC. I can't remember if that is sufficient or if you also need to use the RPGs left lying around.

Don't recall the other scenarios you are referring to. Perhaps I forgot them or avoided them with choice and consequence.

 

[Tigranes]

It was enjoyable to see if I could beat it on my only playthrough without using a gun.

Impossible, given tanks, helicopters, and Darcy in the locked tower.

I haven't seen any mod auto-resolving the minigames like in Mass Effect which is going to be my biggest mental block.

Use EMPs, it's what they're for.

?!?!?!?!?!?! hell no. Fists and stealth all the way is extremely OP (but then most of the character tree is OP). Maybe there were a couple isolated scenes that I forgot about, but you can fist everybody in this game very easily.

The minigames are quite easy and on par with other minigames of this type if your mouse acceleration isn't borked (like it was for many people at launch). That was just shocking incompetence.

 

[Lilura]

The mini-games killed AP. Totally killed it.

 

[Harthwain]

The design decision to make accuracy dependent on the skill points is outdated and never worked well. Bloodlines did the same and it was only to its detriment. Shooting ridiculously inaccurately is simply frustrating gameplay.

It's supposed to reflect your character's skill in using certain weapons and actually encourages you to put points in them. Otherwise what's the point of investing, if you can hit whatever you want without investing a single point? But I can agree than in games where the player's manual skill plays an important role anyway there are better/more natural ways of stimulating how well a player's character can handle a weapon.

 

[Carrion]

The design decision to make accuracy dependent on the skill points is outdated and never worked well. Bloodlines did the same and it was only to its detriment. Shooting ridiculously inaccurately is simply frustrating gameplay.

It's supposed to reflect your character's skill in using certain weapons and actually encourages you to put points in them. Otherwise what's the point of investing, if you can hit whatever you want without investing a single point?

Yes. That being said, AP's randomized accuracy is one of the worst such systems out there. For example, in Deus Ex you can take accurate shots even with low skill, you just need to take your time with each shot and make them count. In AP you can't hit shit even with decent weapon skills, although there are some overpowered abilities like Chain Shot.

 

[Eirinjas]

I played it for 10 minutes and uninstalled. No thanks.

 

[Morgoth]

It's a rough gem ruined by shitty mini games, awkward AI and clunky controls. These things could be easily fixed with a remaster or a major patch.

 

[True Ukrainian]

It was enjoyable to see if I could beat it on my only playthrough without using a gun.

Impossible, given tanks, helicopters, and Darcy in the locked tower.

I haven't seen any mod auto-resolving the minigames like in Mass Effect which is going to be my biggest mental block.

Use EMPs, it's what they're for.

?!?!?!?!?!?! hell no. Fists and stealth all the way is extremely OP (but then most of the character tree is OP). Maybe there were a couple isolated scenes that I forgot about, but you can fist everybody in this game very easily.

The minigames are quite easy and on par with other minigames of this type if your mouse acceleration isn't borked (like it was for many people at launch). That was just shocking incompetence.

Marburg will wreck you if you face him early on with a fist build (without point blank shot). Stealth becomes OP after shadow operative, which admittedly is really early on in the skill tree.

 

[ERYFKRAD]

Marburg will wreck you if you face him early on with a fist build

No.
Never had problems with shooting, by the way.

 

[Roguey]

Don't recall the other scenarios you are referring to. Perhaps I forgot them or avoided them with choice and consequence.

?!?!?!?!?!?! hell no. Fists and stealth all the way is extremely OP (but then most of the character tree is OP). Maybe there were a couple isolated scenes that I forgot about, but you can fist everybody in this game very easily.

You have to use rockets against the tank in the first hub. Darcy and the helicopter at the end are mandatory fights. I also recall there's a part in Taipei where a group of people on a platform show up and you either have to use guns or grenades on them, because there's no way to physically get near them.

Otherwise what's the point of investing, if you can hit whatever you want without investing a single point?

Mass Effect 2, Deus Ex Human Revolution, and The Outer Worlds are all examples of better role playing shooters. New Vegas too, though its system would be inappropriate for AP. It's something that's been figured out a decade ago, Obsidian just got screwed by their own incompetence and Sega producers.

 

[Carrion]

Mass Effect 2, Deus Ex Human Revolution, and The Outer Worlds are all examples of better role playing shooters. New Vegas too, though its system would be inappropriate for AP.

All of those games suck at making character skill feel impactful. Devs are too lazy and unimaginative with this stuff. Your weapon skills should affect every aspect of weapon handling, but it's almost always just damage and/or accuracy, if even that.

 

[Wunderbar]

Mass Effect 2, Deus Ex Human Revolution, and The Outer Worlds are all examples of better role playing shooters. New Vegas too, though its system would be inappropriate for AP.

All of those games suck at making character skill feel impactful. Devs are too lazy and unimaginative with this stuff. Your weapon skills should affect every aspect of weapon handling, but it's almost always just damage and/or accuracy, if even that.

the problem is that DPS is basically the only weapon aspect that matters. Slower reload, slower rate of fire, higher recoil - it all can be compensated with player's skill, while damage and accuracy can not.

 

[Roguey]

All of those games suck at making character skill feel impactful.

I have not played TOW, but with ME2 and DX:HR, absolutely not. Huge difference between baseline Shepard and Jensen and ones with points in things. ME2 deliberately addressed the fact that a single point in any given skill in ME had no discernible effect.

 

[RRRrrr]

All of those games suck at making character skill feel impactful. Devs are too lazy and unimaginative with this stuff. Your weapon skills should affect every aspect of weapon handling, but it's almost always just damage and/or accuracy, if even that.

There are two options that work well for RPGs:
1. Make accuracy dependent on stats and handle targeting automatically-this is good for turn based or RTwP combat. Like in Fallout, KOTOR. Hit chance is calculated based on skill point, since the player does not need to aim.
2. Make the player aim, but you shoot where you aim. Examples include Deus Ex HR, Mass Effect etc. The players aim, so no calculations of hit chance needed.

A hybrid system that makes you both aim by yourself AND then calculates you hit chance, meaning you can aim correctly and not hit anything is simply frustrating. Once you give the player agency to aim, you have to respect it. And vice versa-if the player doesn't have to do the aiming himself, a skill check is the way to go.

 

[Lilura]

It's a rough gem ruined by shitty mini games, awkward AI and clunky controls. These things could be easily fixed with a remaster

Ask Beamdog.

 

[Harthwain]

A hybrid system that makes you both aim by yourself AND then calculates you hit chance, meaning you can aim correctly and not hit anything is simply frustrating. Once you give the player agency to aim, you have to respect it. And vice versa-if the player doesn't have to do the aiming himself, a skill check is the way to go.

There is a third way: make it so that skills impact how much you sway (better weapon holding stance), how long you can hold breath (or even if you can hold breath) to stabilize aim, etc. That way you are still responsible for your accuracy, but it is going to be more difficult to be actually accurate with less points invested in a particular skill. But that's tricky to balance properly.

 

[ERYFKRAD]

It's a rough gem ruined by shitty mini games, awkward AI and clunky controls. These things could be easily fixed with a remaster

Ask Beamdog.

He said FIX not break.