What classifies a game as a rpg vs as a game with rpg elements?

[deama]

I forgot to save the guy's name (he has a sheep avatar pic), but he came up with this which I like:

----- Waterproof definition of an RPG -----
RPG:
1) The outcome of an action is not determined by (physical) player skill, but by the character's stats (+RNG often).
2) There needs to be some kind of character growth/levelup/stat increase/etc.
3) You actually have to be a tangible character in the game, and the act of playing that character is the main drive of the game. Player and "avatar(s)" must be inseparable.
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I guess a game that has rpg elements applies only one or two of the above, whereas an RPG game would apply all.

So disco disco would be an RPG because all points apply, whereas something like dark souls is a game WITH RPG elements, because 1st point is not applied.

 

[Valky]

skyrim is more of an rpg than disco

 

[the mole]

I'm playing a role in Call of Duty, I'm the 360 no scoper going for sick clips, therefore Call of Duty is an rpg.

 

[MpuMngwana]

If a game has numbers that go up, and I like it, it's an RPG.

If a game has numbers that go up, and I don't like it, it's a game with RPG elements.

 

[JDR13]

skyrim is more of an rpg than disco

Sad but true.

 

[Sordid MCA/Prosper Hybryd]

skyrim is more of an rpg than disco

Sad but true.

Why? Being more of an RPG doesn't imply being a better game.

 

[Valky]

skyrim is more of an rpg than disco

Sad but true.

Why? Being more of an RPG doesn't imply being a better game.

skyrim is more of a game than disco

 

[JDR13]

skyrim is more of an rpg than disco

Sad but true.

Why? Being more of an RPG doesn't imply being a better game.

I don't think he was implying it was a better game.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

You read that question the game's asking? The "what kind of character do you want to play"? T

But it's not asking that at all.
That's like saying a sportsball game is an RPG because you get to pick what position you play in sportsball.

 

[the mole]

You read that question the game's asking? The "what kind of character do you want to play"? T

But it's not asking that at all.
That's like saying a sportsball game is an RPG because you get to pick what position you play in sportsball.

You can also create characters and customize their stats and positions, so Madden 20 is an rpg

 

[jac8awol]

Feel like DE may be that watershed moment that redefines RPG in the mainstream. While it's been happening in varying forms for a while, from now on, people will label anything as an RPG. My feeling is that 20 years ago, RPG basically just meant D&D. Combat, exploration and dialogue focused level up games. Thanks to DE's success, we have wider recognition that RPG means anything, and you'll see a lot of games that codex grognards absolutely hate, labeling themselves as RPGs. Welcome to the age of rage.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

Feel like DE may be that watershed moment that redefines RPG in the mainstream. While it's been happening in varying forms for a while, from now on, people will label anything as an RPG. My feeling is that 20 years ago, RPG basically just meant D&D. Combat, exploration and dialogue focused level up games. Thanks to DE's success, we have wider recognition that RPG means anything, and you'll see a lot of games that codex grognards absolutely hate, labeling themselves as RPGs. Welcome to the age of rage.

8 réal have been deposited into your bank account.

 

[the mole]

Feel like DE may be that watershed moment that redefines RPG in the mainstream. While it's been happening in varying forms for a while, from now on, people will label anything as an RPG. My feeling is that 20 years ago, RPG basically just meant D&D. Combat, exploration and dialogue focused level up games. Thanks to DE's success, we have wider recognition that RPG means anything, and you'll see a lot of games that codex grognards absolutely hate, labeling themselves as RPGs. Welcome to the age of rage.

DE only had 5000 at the peak, not exactly a resounding mainstream success

 

[HarveyBirdman]

Three elements make an RPG:
(1) system for character growth
(2) character growth is intrinsic, as opposed to an easily swappable loadout like in multiplayer shooters
(3) narrative freedom

An RPG has all three elements.
A non-RPG with RPG elements has at least one element, but fewer than all three elements.

 

[Machocruz]

From what I've seen, DE plays how tabletop games without miniatures (which happens to be the vast majority of campaigns I was ever involved in or seen played) are played: through words and die rolls. You tell the GM what you want to do and you roll to see if you are successful. I was under the impression the game does have combat and that it plays out similarly to this. No you don't move your character next to the other character and press your little hotkey or R1 button to attack. You don't do that in tabletop either. Looks like "no gameplay" is a hallmark of the actual genre.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

From what I've seen, DE plays how tabletop games without miniatures (which happens to be the vast majority of campaigns I was ever involved in or seen played) are played: through words and die rolls. You tell the GM what you want to do and you roll to see if you are successful. I was under the impression the game does have combat and that it plays out similarly to this. No you don't move your character next to the other character and press your little hotkey or R1 button to attack. You don't do that in tabletop either. Looks like "no gameplay" is a hallmark of the actual genre.

That doesn't make it an RPG, that makes it a video game adaptation of a board game.
It eschews the medium itself which makes it the complete opposite of a CRPG.

 

[Machocruz]

That doesn't make it an RPG, that makes it a video game adaptation of a board game.
It eschews the medium itself which makes it the complete opposite of a CRPG.

How is it emulating board games? The die rolls don't determine distance moved. They determine success of actions, which is what they do in actual RPGs.
How is it eschewing the medium? How is it eschewing the medium more than the vast majority of video games people think are RPGs?

 

[rusty_shackleford]

That doesn't make it an RPG, that makes it a video game adaptation of a board game.
It eschews the medium itself which makes it the complete opposite of a CRPG.

How is it emulating board games? The die rolls don't determine distance moved. They determine success of actions, which is what they do in actual RPGs.
How is it eschewing the medium? How is it eschewing the medium more than the vast majority of video games people think are RPGs?

Do you think the ultimate film is just a guy sitting in front of a camera reading a book?
Because you seem to think the ultimate RPG is just a digital board game.

 

[Machocruz]

[
Do you think the ultimate film is just a guy sitting in front of a camera reading a book?
Because you seem to think the ultimate RPG is just a digital board game.

A precise digital facsimile of tabletop would still be a RPG. Perhaps one that doesn't use the medium of video games to its fullest but that's hardly enough to disqualify the game in question as belonging to the genre. Whether you can move your character around, do backflips, combos, dodge rolls, whatever has no bearing on this, that's video game shit, not RPG shit.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

[
Do you think the ultimate film is just a guy sitting in front of a camera reading a book?
Because you seem to think the ultimate RPG is just a digital board game.

A precise digital facsimile of tabletop would still be a RPG. Perhaps one that doesn't use the medium of video games to its fullest but that's hardly enough to disqualify the game in question as belonging to the genre. Whether you can move your character around, do backflips, combos, dodge rolls, whatever has no bearing on this, that's video game shit, not RPG shit.

Many games categorized as visual novels/"interactive fiction" would be an RPG, as a very large portion of them have stats and skill checks.
e.g., any of the games developed by Choice of Games

 

[Machocruz]

Many games categorized as visual novels/"interactive fiction" would be an RPG, as a very large portion of them have stats and skill checks.
e.g., any of the games developed by Choice of Games

Perhaps. I don't know the extent and rigor of the RPG elements (same as I don't fully know for DE, just going off impressions from previews and videos) in those games, but let's just say that if I saw a so-called VN that had not only stats and skill checks, but the whole suite of features including character creation (or selection of premade chars), character sheet, attributes, skills, feats, checks, die rolls, classes, etc. at that point I would dismiss anyone who insisted it was not qualified for RPGhood.

If we're talking strictly about video games, which I wasn't when I made that original post, I see your point. It would be lying to say that, while I respect DE for doing it that way, that it represents my ideal CRPG. I like lots of combat, preferably tactical TB with a party of 4 or more, but I also like actionRPGs quite a bit too.

 

[Generic-Giant-Spider]

BUT DOES IT HAVE CRAFTING?!

 

[Nameless Codexian]

Enjoy the discussion everyone!

I am going to deactivate this alt and go back to being your ole' but dependable mod Crispy for now.

This has been a short but fun experiment

 

[Verylittlefishes]

BUT DOES IT HAVE CRAFTING?!

Minecraft have a lots of this.

 

[Glop_dweller]

I forgot to save the guy's name (he has a sheep avatar pic), but he came up with this which I like:

----- Waterproof definition of an RPG -----
RPG:
1) The outcome of an action is not determined by (physical) player skill, but by the character's stats (+RNG often).
2) There needs to be some kind of character growth/levelup/stat increase/etc.
3) You actually have to be a tangible character in the game, and the act of playing that character is the main drive of the game. Player and "avatar(s)" must be inseparable.
-----------------------------------------------

I disagree with that list's last two assertions. Growth and leveling up are both certainly preferable in a game, but they are not inherent to roleplaying. Roleplaying can be done even in dialog that offers no rewards; or by actions that affect nothing... yet that are in-character.

As for being inseparable from the PC ... the whole point is to be separate from the PC; that they are not like [you] the player, but are their own personality... and who would handle things differently than the player might, if situations were reversed; else it's just digital cosplay.