What is core gameplay in an RPG?

[DraQ]

cRPGs have no singular core gameplay as cRPGs don't form a singular genre:
http://www.rpgcodex.net/forums/inde...is-generally-agreed.67412/page-6#post-1893279
http://www.rpgcodex.net/forums/inde...-3-bioware-thread.68704/page-524#post-3260245

If you do, against all reason, insist on considering cRPGs a genre on their own, then anything beyond chargen OR interactive stat/perk/etc. distribution on level up is non-core gameplay, meaning they can be safely stripped down into boring spreadsheet ungames.

 

[pakoito]

http://sinisterdesign.net/what-makes-an-rpg-an-rpg-a-universal-definition/

Spoiler

A game is a computer RPG if it features player-driven development of a persistent character or characters via the making of consequential choices.

 

[DraQ]

1. The progress of your character. At the end of the game, your char must be different from your starting state. Without your char, your game is not RPG. Without progress, your game is not RPG.

2. Combat. Without combat RPG is not RPG. Adventure, visual novel, whatever, notRPG.

So neither a pacifist run of an RPG nor its speedrun counts as RPG?

 

[Excidium II]

1. The progress of your character. At the end of the game, your char must be different from your starting state. Without your char, your game is not RPG. Without progress, your game is not RPG.

2. Combat. Without combat RPG is not RPG. Adventure, visual novel, whatever, notRPG.

That's it. Core gameplay of a RPG.

WRONG

 

[Fowyr]

Nah I can make a completely non combat based RPG.

First I start with a game modeled after Leisure Suit Larry in the Land of the Lounge Lizards. Then genericize certain aspects of the game so I can have a character creator. Then I add in some stats and skills

...And you will get Hound of Shadow, non-RPG.

 

[Sjukob]

For me , the main thing about RPGs is how different characters can solve same things differently and how various solutions can lead to various scenarious . We know how it's done in RPGs , skill checks , resistances , immunities , faction influence , so each character feels different in different situations , it's interesting to play an actual being that can do some things and can't do other , it's interesting to unable to accomplish everything , because nobody can do everything .

 

[laclongquan]

Nah I can make a completely non combat based RPG.

First I start with a game modeled after Leisure Suit Larry in the Land of the Lounge Lizards. Then genericize certain aspects of the game so I can have a character creator. Then I add in some stats and skills. Such as: Charm, Manliness (replaced by Feminine Wiles if female is selected), Dumb luck, Staying power, G-spot accuracy, Weaselyness, etc. Then create some perks, such as: Dirty Sanchez, Vasectomy, STD resistance, etc. Then I add various extra choices to the various dialogs and some skills/perk checks with some potentially different outcomes depending on existence or successful rolls so that figuring out and obtaining the right stuff is both Adventurish but also can be done is multiple ways that fit the RPG system, i.e. you can convince some one to do something with Charm or via Weaselyness or go through some elaborate Advemture puzzle. For example if I picked the STD resistance perk then having sex with the hooker may cause you not to get the STD that makes your crotch go on fire when done in a certain way. Possibly alter either some characters or how certain things play out for appropriate anatomy if the player chose female etc.

Voila a non-combat RPG.

It is easy to use WORDS to describe why my definition is wrong.
It is difficult to point out a RPG that disprove my definition.

And DraQ, a pacifist run in F2 (for example) compose of running away like a chicken in many fights. IT does not mean that there's no combat. At the very least, you have to run away from those rats in the Temple.

 

[Excidium II]

It is easy to use WORDS to describe why my definition is wrong.
It is difficult to point out a RPG that disprove my definition.

And DraQ, a pacifist run in F2 (for example) compose of running away like a chicken in many fights. IT does not mean that there's no combat. At the very least, you have to run away from those rats in the Temple.

There's plenty of games that disprove your definition, most obvious popular example being Call of Cthulhu, sure there's combat rules as it's a situation that might arise but it's not part of "core gameplay", and neither is character progression.

 

[laclongquan]

Eh, I assume you mean the PC game Call of Cthulhu Dark Corners of Earth? Last time I heard, it's horror survival adventure game, a FPS horror tittle, with not a shred of RPG. Does Codex take it as RPG then?

ANd even if you twist definitions enough to say it's a RPG, does it not have combat in its gameplay?

 

[Excidium II]

No I mean the RPG.

 

[laclongquan]

I am not sure what game we are talking about. Can you mention a little more detail? Like a website, or developer name. Or its proper name in full.

Because Call of Chulthu is such a generic name, it does identify several games with that monicker in their tittles if you google it.

If you mean the 1981 game, does it not have characters and the progress of characters through the game, thus fit the 1st requirement of my definition?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Call_of_Cthulhu_(role-playing_game)

1. The progress of your character. At the end of the game, your char must be different from your starting state. Without your char, your game is not RPG. Without progress, your game is not RPG.

2. Combat. Without combat RPG is not RPG. Adventure, visual novel, whatever, notRPG.

That's it. Core gameplay of a RPG.

 

[Excidium II]

Come on, how have you never heard of CoC? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Call_of_Cthulhu_(role-playing_game)

 

[laclongquan]

Like I said from the start, I dont know what game you are talking about. Because, the very basis of CoC is that you fail SAN check, you go insane. Ergo, you have character with at least one stat (SAN) and you can change that stat through the game. It fit the 1st req of mine. Even if you put it that the action of setting and triggering SAN check is not combat (thus disprove my 2nd req).

Thus I cant think of a game with that monicker that disprove my defintion~

 

[Excidium II]

Like I said from the start, I dont know what game you are talking about. Because, the very basis of CoC is that you fail SAN check, you go insane. Ergo, you have character with at least one stat (SAN) and you can change that stat through the game. It fit the 1st req of mine.

Thus I cant think of a game with that monicker that disprove my defintion~

Well I wouldn't call it progression. But of course if by that line you mean that RPGs as a core element have stats change during play then I guess yeah that's right.

 

[laclongquan]

Like I said.

If you have a char in a CoC game, with a single stat SAN in it, go through the game. If hesheit doesnt trigger any SAN check, thus doesnt change the SAN stat, then it is not a CoC game isnt it? If a single check is triggered, then either that stat would go up or down, thus it progress.

It fit my definition of a RPG perfectly, thus I dont understand why you would choose it as example to counter, and asked for your verification~

 

[Excidium II]

Alright then. But your second point is still wrong

 

[laclongquan]

When you have character progression, it's really hard to make strictly noncombat progression. You will find that noncombat progression make a game usually called adventure games or visual novels.

A RPG game with noncombat progression usually require players to squint really hard to call it noncombat~ I mean, really hard squint that make everyone else laugh at you.

 

[Excidium II]

That's because CRPGs are made by people that just copy the same old formula over and over. If you're going to define the core of the genre by how people have done it so far I'd just stop now.

 

[Lhynn]

The interaction between the character development and the world is what constitutes the core gameplay of an RPG.

 

[Sykar]

RPG = Retards Playing Games
cRPG = complete Retards Playing Games

Spoiler

 

[mondblut]

That's because CRPGs are made by people that just copy the same old formula over and over. If you're going to define the core of the genre by how people have done it so far

That's what this whole "genre" thing is about.

Srsly. RPG means being a D&D derivative. Core gameplay in an RPG is being played kinda like D&D is played. The more it plays like a tabletop D&D session, the more of an RPG it is. That's all there is, really. Any attempts to formally define it are half pulling shit out of your ass, half stretching an owl onto a globe, half leaving out a good chunk of proper RPGs because they have dared to ignore your pet peeve non-feature, and half letting in non-RPGs because they paid a lip service to it.

 

[Sjukob]

That's what this whole "genre" thing is about.

Srsly. RPG means being a D&D derivative. Core gameplay in an RPG is being played kinda like D&D is played. The more it plays like a tabletop D&D session, the more of an RPG it is. That's all there is, really. Any attempts to formally define it are half pulling shit out of your ass, half stretching an owl onto a globe, half leaving out a good chunk of proper RPGs because they have dared to ignore your pet peeve non-feature, and half letting in non-RPGs because they paid a lip service to it.

So , people who don't like D&D are fooling themselves ?

 

[mondblut]

So , people who don't like D&D are fooling themselves ?

Depends on the extent to which whatever they do like actually differs from D&D. For the majority of typical tabletop RPGs, nowhere nearly as much as their authors like to pretend they do.

 

[T. Reich]

So , people who don't like D&D are fooling themselves ?

Don't be obtuse. "D&D" could mean any tabletop role-playing system. Like, Fallout wasn't a D&D derivative - because it was GURPS derivative.

 

[DraQ]

Don't be obtuse. "D&D" could mean any tabletop role-playing system.

Except it does not so it does not.